What is needed to shift the dps meta?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

The coefficient changes we have got over the last 2 years have been removing builds by making them not viable anymore and have done very little to change up the meta. Additionally the new EoD specs havent introduced any new meta dps classes. If we really want a meta shift, we need B I G G buffs.

Here are some absurd examples of the scale of changes that would be needed to shift the meta. Think to yourself "what would it take for one of these builds to overtake the rev, holo, and thief we have seen over the last couple years?"

DPS guard:
Whirling wrath gets evade frames.
Mighty blow range doubled.
Remove the movement locking of sword 3, hammer 5, GS 4.
Adding some better damage scaling or dps boons to valor/viritues, or better defence options to radiance/zeal.

DPS ele:
Double the damage of arcane skills, churning earth, drakes breath, meteor shower... etc
Halve the cooldown of lightning hammer and FGS.
Remove the might stripping of pyromancers puissance.

DPS war:
Berserk grants pulsing perma quickness+resistance.
War gets resistance every time they swap weapons.
Increase the boon rip damage of loss aversion by 5x.

Now really think, would this make these classes meta? Is perma quickness and resistance, a ludicrous example of power creep, enough to make people take a berserker in the MAT? Honestly probably not, which just goes to show how big the class imbalance really is.
 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Bring back hard cc damage plox

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The coefficient changes we have got over the last 2 years have been removing builds by making them not viable anymore and have done very little to change up the meta. Additionally the new EoD specs havent introduced any new meta dps classes. If we really want a meta shift, we need B I G G buffs.

Here are some absurd examples of the scale of changes that would be needed to shift the meta. Think to yourself "what would it take for one of these builds to overtake the rev, holo, and thief we have seen over the last couple years?"

DPS guard:
Whirling wrath gets evade frames.
Mighty blow range doubled.
Remove the movement locking of sword 3, hammer 5, GS 4.
Adding some better damage scaling or dps boons to valor/viritues, or better defence options to radiance/zeal.

DPS ele:
Double the damage of arcane skills, churning earth, drakes breath, meteor shower... etc
Halve the cooldown of lightning hammer and FGS.
Remove the might stripping of pyromancers puissance.

DPS war:
Berserk grants pulsing perma quickness+resistance.
War gets resistance every time they swap weapons.
Increase the boon rip damage of loss aversion by 5x.

Now really think, would this make these classes meta? Is perma quickness and resistance, a ludicrous example of power creep, enough to make people take a berserker in the MAT? Honestly probably not, which just goes to show how big the class imbalance really is.
 

But steal is bloated and overpowered, lol.

XD

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

6 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

But steal is bloated and overpowered, lol.

XD

key words in my post:

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Here are some absurd examples

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

43 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

key words in my post:

 

here are some key words for your post:

subterfuge, duplicity

[Gwaihir.1745]

The game is in dire need of an overhaul. We wont get it though they're still working on that wvw overhaul thing.

[Kozumi.5816]

Step1) Hotfix nerf anything able to bunker 24 hours after it being played once.

[Downstate.4697]

Are you talking about the g3 and below meta, the plat meta or the AT meta?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Now Berserker is a real support spec. Like Anet always wanted. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

15 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Now Berserker is a real support spec. Like Anet always wanted. 

Just wait until the banner rework and anet will call berserker a support class

[DanAlcedo.3281]

8 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Just wait until the banner rework and anet will call berserker a support class

They literally already did I an older Balance post. I'm not joking. 

[FoxGoesFloof.8049]

Nef Ele. The sound of lightning and dumbly grumbly churning earth terrifies moiu

[Morwath.9817]

7 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

But steal is bloated and overpowered, lol.

XD

 

It isn't? Certainly the most overloaded instant ability in the game.

• Teleport;
• Grants Might, Fury, Swiftness, Vigor;
• Steals two boons (stability>protection>rest);
• Dazes interrupting even thru stability, because look point above;
• Grants Stealth and Stealth gives venom, enables Rending Shade (more boonrip or fear);
• In case od DD unblockable as well.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Morwath.9817

[aelska.4609]

11 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

DPS guard:
* Fixed bugs on weapon skills.

 

Fixed that for you

[grx.8714]

4 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

It isn't? Certainly the most overloaded instant ability in the game.

• Teleport;
• Grants Might, Fury, Swiftness, Vigor;
• Steals two boons (stability>protection>rest);
• Dazes interrupting even thru stability, because look point above;
• Grants Stealth and Stealth gives venom, enables Rending Shade (more boonrip or fear);
• In case od DD unblockable as well.

You forgot it's also instacast, casted while you are CCed as well.

You cannot counter it unless an instinct prediction when the thief is going to use it and hope he does.

A good thief never miss his steal, like 1 out of 10 maybe.

[Sahne.6950]

5 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

It isn't? Certainly the most overloaded instant ability in the game.

• Teleport;
• Grants Might, Fury, Swiftness, Vigor;
• Steals two boons (stability>protection>rest);
• Dazes interrupting even thru stability, because look point above;
• Grants Stealth and Stealth gives venom, enables Rending Shade (more boonrip or fear);
• In case od DD unblockable as well.

you forgot that it heals and deals Strikedamage aswell^^

[Myror.7521]

Nah there is a better way to bring zerker back. Simply give it its f1 burst back if it is not in the zerk Mode xd. This would made 2 things. Damage outside of zerk Mode. And a way to still stack ub Adrenalin heal thing xd

[Crab Fear.1624]

7 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

It isn't? Certainly the most overloaded instant ability in the game.

• Teleport;
• Grants Might, Fury, Swiftness, Vigor;
• Steals two boons (stability>protection>rest);
• Dazes interrupting even thru stability, because look point above;
• Grants Stealth and Stealth gives venom, enables Rending Shade (more boonrip or fear);
• In case od DD unblockable as well.

 

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you forgot that it heals and deals Strikedamage aswell^^

 

2 hours ago, grx.8714 said:

You forgot it's also instacast, casted while you are CCed as well.

You cannot counter it unless an instinct prediction when the thief is going to use it and hope he does.

A good thief never miss his steal, like 1 out of 10 maybe.

All of you forgot that it's the only profession mechanic thief has.

 

Compare the profession/f skills of every other profession before wagging your fingers.

 

Engi - toolbelt, usage buffs

Ele - attunement means 4 weapon sets, with attuneswap buffs 

Rev, whole other utility bar and f skill usage buffs, and legend swap buffs

Necro - shroud, shroud skills, transform buffs and enemy debunks are overloaded

Mesmer can reset their instant 4 skills, buffed by traits

Guardian has 3 f skills which are another utility set, reset possible.

Ranger has pets, 2 plus buffs on swap and control pet even when down.

 

Literally the only class with a basic profession skill is warrior, and it is just a burst skill.

Warrior would be the only one that could complain about being cheated.

 

So every other profession gets a whole bar that is overloaded, and most of those skills are instant or rechargeable.

 

The players left in the game are straight up delusional.

Half of the kit on steal is negated with no enemy, so really a bad point some of you are making about if it hits or not, which in some cases, it doesn't, and then thieves are screwed.

Unlike other kits which have compensation built in just for self.

How many traits have to be pretty much mandatory to get anything useful out of steal, versus the profession kits of others?

 

Steal is fine, it's time to accept and adapt.

 

 

Also, Morwath stopped being a quaggan?

Lol

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Crab Fear.1624

[Spellhunter.9675]

39 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

All of you forgot that it's the only profession mechanic thief has.

You forgot thief has another class mechanic - initiative and no CD on weapon skills. This sole thing won't allow thief to be balanced ever.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Just now, Spellhunter.9675 said:

You forgot thief has another class mechanic - initiative and no CD on weapon skills. This sole thing won't allow thief to be balanced ever.

You forgot to mention initiative is global and when it's out after 3 skills used max, everything is on cooldown.

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 minute ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

You forgot to mention initiative is global and when it's out after 3 skills used max, everything is on cooldown.

Would you allow me to use 3 fear marks in a row? I'll don't need other weapon skills then.

[Crab Fear.1624]

6 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Would you allow me to use 3 fear marks in a row? I'll don't need other weapon skills then.

I'd love for necro to be put on initiative capped at 15 just like thief and it woukd global, and fear marks should probably cost 6 to 8 initiative.

 

Please Anet, make this happen. 

For real, I'm begging you Anet, give necromancer thief initiative system.

Considering they have shroud, it should be base 9 just like specter.

[Curennos.9307]

4 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Would you allow me to use 3 fear marks in a row? I'll don't need other weapon skills then.

It's important to remember that thief's skills are balanced around being able to use them multiple times in a row. What is fine on thief would, obviously, not be fine on another class because the latter hasn't been designed around it and vice versa. This is how thief weapons end up being very...odd in that you can have a selection of very niche skills that see very specific usage, and then 1, maybe 2, 'general use' skills that would be blatantly overpowered on another class but (debatably, in some cases) aren't on thief - such as pistol whip, flanking/larc strike, shadowshot, etc. 

 

Would you be 'allowed' to use fear mark three times in a row? No, because necromancer hasn't been designed around that. This is how class design works. This is why thief doesn't have a 1200 range, usually unblockable psuedo hard CC - it would clearly be too much. Their skills are designed around being usable multiple times in a row, while other classes have skills that you can use whenever and go on cooldown.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

 

All of you forgot that it's the only profession mechanic thief has.

 

Compare the profession/f skills of every other profession before wagging your fingers.

 

Engi - toolbelt, usage buffs

Ele - attunement means 4 weapon sets, with attuneswap buffs 

Rev, whole other utility bar and f skill usage buffs, and legend swap buffs

Necro - shroud, shroud skills, transform buffs and enemy debunks are overloaded

Mesmer can reset their instant 4 skills, buffed by traits

Guardian has 3 f skills which are another utility set, reset possible.

Ranger has pets, 2 plus buffs on swap and control pet even when down.

 

Literally the only class with a basic profession skill is warrior, and it is just a burst skill.

Warrior would be the only one that could complain about being cheated.

 

So every other profession gets a whole bar that is overloaded, and most of those skills are instant or rechargeable.

 

The players left in the game are straight up delusional.

Half of the kit on steal is negated with no enemy, so really a bad point some of you are making about if it hits or not, which in some cases, it doesn't, and then thieves are screwed.

Unlike other kits which have compensation built in just for self.

How many traits have to be pretty much mandatory to get anything useful out of steal, versus the profession kits of others?

 

Steal is fine, it's time to accept and adapt.

 

 

Also, Morwath stopped being a quaggan?

Lol

 

You heard it here first, quantity of skills is far more important than quality. Therefore firebrand is the most OP of them all.

[Spellhunter.9675]

37 minutes ago, Curennos.9307 said:

It's important to remember that thief's skills are balanced around being able to use them multiple times in a row. What is fine on thief

So, you want to tell me pistol whip was balanced?