[Suggestions ] Just listen to this guy

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Oh we have multiple CM strikes now?

Can you point me to another one then aetherblade retreat please.

They could make a cm-cm strike that offer more mechanic for group wipe 😛

It's not like the casuals will join anytime soon (maybe in the next expanion we restart)

Edited May 8, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Oh we have multiple CM strikes now?

Not today, but we will have them. Four at the very least.

[Dante.1508]

7 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

The average dev salary in their area is in the vicinity of $80,000 per year. The cost to employ multiplier for their area is in the vicinity of x1.3. So thousands of devs (lets say 2000 as 2 is the low end of a plural) would cost 208 million dollars per year....in payroll costs alone. No they couldn't fund thousands of devs if they wanted to.

Like i said no issue with adding a few thousand devs with what GW2 rakes in.

[battledrone.8315]

12 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

That answer is incredibly selfish. Even though most MMORPGs nowadays are incredibly solo player friendly, MMORPGs are still a multiplayer experience. That means that by being part of the community, just like in every other aspect of life, you sign a social contract with said community. You should be able to pull your own weight or at least try to. That's commonly called "basic human decency". If everyone would just not bother with fundamental game mechanics, we'd probably still fail events like Chak Gerent - or at least would only finish said example on the third and last DPS phase.

It's a problem for the overall game and the game developers. If the majority of your players won't bother with fundamental game mechanics, what can you possibly do with the game? You'd have to design every single part of the game in an autopilot friendly way. That in turn would drain the fun out of the game since such gameplay design simply isn't engaging. It would further lead to a fragmentation of the playerbase and dead content - a problem which we already have since we arguably have too many open world maps. Just try doing Return to achievements or Aurora/Vision collection nowadays. Sure, it's okay during prime time, but if you don't play and try to finish these collections/achievements during prime time, these maps don't really feel like you're playing a MMORPG.

Which would be? Engine, development team, funding? Is that any excuse why the lowest common denominator should limit Arena Net any further in game design?

For a decent gameplay and difficulty progression which is long overdue. I'd say we have a very good difficulty curve for PvE content now starting in core Tyria, growing in the expansions up to EoD, then fractals and strike missions and lastly raids.

You apparently still don't want to understand that this isn't about participating in a "race" but about fundamental game mechanics which would enable players to do decently well in open world content and take part in every kind of content the game offers - taking part in raids pp. is their choice, but the game itself should actually force them to be prepared for its content.

It can, though? Like I've said: This is a MMORPG - a multiplayer experience. People should have some basic human decency to not be a burden to other players - or at least try to not be a burden by trying to learn fundamental game mechanics.

Yes, people should enjoy the game. In a multiplayer experience, that also means that you need to know the games basic rules though if you don't want to grief other players and have fun on their costs.

I don't want to convert anyone. I just want people to know about fundamental game mechanics. I admit that I may antagonize a certain part of the community. The thing is though that said part of the community is rather malicious and simply doesn't want to compromise on anything.

This isn't about "advanced tactics", it's about fundamental game mechanics. If this is already too much, then people probably don't really want to play the game properly to begin with.

yes its an mmorpg, a game that thrives with more players. which is why its a stupid idea to send them away.

if its a "fundamental mechancic", why do so few people know about it?

why isnt it taught in the first zones, if its so important?

 

[Linken.6345]

20 minutes ago, battledrone.8315 said:

yes its an mmorpg, a game that thrives with more players. which is why its a stupid idea to send them away.

if its a "fundamental mechancic", why do so few people know about it?

why isnt it taught in the first zones, if its so important?

 

It is but you can totaly avoid it with enough people.

Why dont you go try to down any of the queensdale bandit champions alone and see that you will learn fast you have to dodge, position yourself and even use your heal skill from time to time.

[battledrone.8315]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

It is but you can totaly avoid it with enough people.

Why dont you go try to down any of the queensdale bandit champions alone and see that you will learn fast you have to dodge, position yourself and even use your heal skill from time to time.

bandit champions are pretty easy to understand, and they are entirely optional.

i can both dodge and heal, but certainly not to the degree, that is needed in the end game content

if i hit a boss (when they actually LET me  hit him) , i cant even see his HP bar move

when he hits me, im almost dead in one hit. and all that, while i contantly have to avoid AOE,  kill adds,

and do other mechanics. its even worse, than old school scholomance. 

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, battledrone.8315 said:

bandit champions are pretty easy to understand, and they are entirely optional.

i can both dodge and heal, but certainly not to the degree, that is needed in the end game content

if i hit a boss (when they actually LET me  hit him) , i cant even see his HP bar move

when he hits me, im almost dead in one hit. and all that, while i contantly have to avoid AOE,  kill adds,

and do other mechanics. its even worse, than old school scholomance. 

Well your fighting a dragon an chiping away at its toe nail do you expect the bar to move much?

[Zok.4956]

11 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Anet decided it's much easier to start anew than to try to clean the dungeon code to make it easier to work with.

Unfortunately, this is a behavior that can often be seen in Anet. Instead of successively improving systems/ideas/content, they are abandoned and the developers start with completely new things. This will always happen if devs (who want to work on their own new shiny things instead of improving "bad code" of others) are allowed to do this. And that's also why there are so many inconsistencies and unfixed bugs in GW2.

[Zok.4956]

12 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

It is not normal for a game to entirely abandon the fundamental end game format every couple of years.

I agree.

 

12 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

If the counter point is that ANet is incompetent and builds impossible to maintain systems over and over that could explain it as well. But to me it seems more likely that the participation just isn't where ANet wants it to be. 

 

I think dungeons were quite popular back in the days. I don't have any numbers to prove this, just my memory. And dungeons play an important role in the personal story, it was the only "instanced end-game content" back in the days and they were mandatory for completing the personal story (Arah).

However, there was a significant amount of players that did not complete the personal story because of Arah-dungeon (5 player instanced content), so Anet changed the story requirement into a single-player instance (but not in a good way) and also a lot of players wanted more content, some form of progression (something to do) and more challenging content and Anet created fractals and ascended gear as a response.

I think the moment Anet released fractals, they internally abandoned dungeons but just did not communicate it officially.

Mike O'Brien, when he was still in charge at Anet, once said that game development at Anet is always "hit or miss".  The studio was always trying to invent new things, the next big "hit". And they invented a lot of new things. But as a consequence it also means that they did not focus on improving the "misses" and instead just tried to abandon them to focus on the next things, that could be a "hit". I think that's also a key reason why Anet rarely improves existing systems and doesn't seem to learn from their mistakes.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Zok.4956

[xenon.3264]

On 5/3/2022 at 11:04 AM, LordOfDeath.7420 said:

Why are you confused? I mean, watch for example: 'Why Guild Wars 2's Weak Endgame Rewards Are A HUGE Problem'

 

 

because it's the closer thing to a downvote to this forum.

 

also

 

didn't he stopped like 12 times saying the game was dead ? 

 

why are people still watching him ? he is not even funny

 

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

3 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

This will always happen if devs (who want to work on their own new shiny things instead of improving "bad code" of others) are allowed to do this. And that's also why there are so many inconsistencies and unfixed bugs in GW2.

People need to stop ripping into developers like they call the shots. Anet is probably just bleeding talent thanks to someone high up the food chain and the guy who wrote the Dungeon/fractals/etc just isn´t there anymore. Looking at the game i really doubt the Devs have much say in what gets produced and what not. They just implement what some marketing guy/manager tells them to.

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

23 minutes ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

No way in hell does a marketing guy say "Lets shove bunny thumper in the Cantha expansion" but ignore actual marketable Especs from GW1

 

Actually, I could very easily see that happening because of how popular that meme build was and how much crying for it there was in the Ranger sub forum.

[Syvaris Laskaris.5247]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

Actually, I could very easily see that happening because of how popular that meme build was and how much crying for it there was in the Ranger sub forum.

Rangers deserve all the projectile hate then.

[SlayerXX.7138]

30 minutes ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

No way in hell does a marketing guy say "Lets shove bunny thumper in the Cantha expansion" but ignore actual marketable Especs from GW1

That's my point. Someone who doesn't care about gw2 or game design design all that much had to make some decision. Look at specter spec do you think someone who cares about Shiny new things or game design in general had any influence on the design of the class. Scepter is just pistol ported to scepter. Heal, utility and elite are filler abilities that made it into the release. Either the person working on it didn't care or had no time. Because someone high up decide it isn't a focus.

 

Looking quick at the credits i see 23 game developer and 37 marketing personal. I dont count the server and web guys as they don't develop the game(someone who keeps the serve running smoothly doesn't make fractals).

Quality assurance are around 36 people. The first 16 are analysts and leads. So yeah i dont think the person who implemented bunny thumper, had much choice in that matter. I am pretty sure it was one of the many producer, leads, analyst or whatever not the guys that does implement it later.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Rasimir.6239]

22 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

Look if shiverrpeaks strike is daily. Log in if yes. Open/join group. Besides on reset day no one is gonna ask for KI/LI. Wait 0-5 mins. Fight the golem. Win. GZ. You are into strikes now.

A while ago, I went into a no-req Shiverpeaks Pass strike with a friend. It was his first time, he tried to do damage as well as understand the encounter. Once the boss was down, he was kicked from the squad without warning, then got a whisper ridiculing his dps. Needless to say, I never could talk him into trying to give strikes another go.

 

23 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

I asked in a new Threat how people play the game. I´m surprised how many people are content with just farming. I guess i was wrong. Personal bias got the better of me on that one.

If that's what you took away from that thread, then I think there's more bias in play here than you realise. Most of the answers I read in that thread came from people not even considering farming as a way to play the game. They play to enjoy themselves, to spend time with activities that entertain them. They don't focus on reward aquisition at all, and as such don't worry about farming anything.

 

I suspect that one of the biggest disconnects that I see between the players in this game comes from a basic age difference. Younger gamers (and "young" for me easily includes people in their 20s and 30s) seem to be more focussed on efficiency and rewards, while I see a lot of "older" players looking for enjoyable activities with a lot less focus on "gold per hour".

Video gaming, especially in a game like this that tries to focus on cooperative over competitive gameplay, attracts plenty of people that want to have a great time. I may have different goals and different ideas of what is fun to me and what I want to do to get to said fun than a person half my age, but that doesn't make my way of playing less valid.

[SlayerXX.7138]

6 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

A while ago, I went into a no-req Shiverpeaks Pass strike with a friend. It was his first time, he tried to do damage as well as understand the encounter. Once the boss was down, he was kicked from the squad without warning, then got a whisper ridiculing his dps. Needless to say, I never could talk him into trying to give strikes another go.

Is that an NA thing cause i play on EU ridiculing seems quite unusual. Even then they carried him through the strike. If it was a Full clear group they could him kick nicer but still what should they do? Just tell him next time to gear exotics Bersekr/Viper and he should be of the hook Or go for a chill round of Forging steel. Its is unfortunate they were mean while telling him his dps is to low, but that is a fixable problem.

 

17 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

If that's what you took away from that thread, then I think there's more bias in play here than you realise. Most of the answers I read in that thread came from people not even considering farming as a way to play the game. They play to enjoy themselves, to spend time with activities that entertain them. They don't focus on reward aquisition at all, and as such don't worry about farming anything.

I mean over halve of them said they farm gold, join meta trains or build towards legendary weapons(i think of that as farming maybe it is not¯\_(ツ)_/¯) which I thought was a lot. A couple even have alt accounts for more G. I also would have thought more people soloing hard HP or OW champions for the fun of it. Which is fine farming can be a relaxing activity it just isn't for me. Accumulating currency is part of our DNA after all.

 

24 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I suspect that one of the biggest disconnects that I see between the players in this game comes from a basic age difference. Younger gamers (and "young" for me easily includes people in their 20s and 30s) seem to be more focussed on efficiency and rewards, while I see a lot of "older" players looking for enjoyable activities with a lot less focus on "gold per hour".

Ah yes all the hip youngsters in WvW chasing that 5/g per hour high. Seems like  your the one with the bias.

[voltaicbore.8012]

1 hour ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

No way in hell does a marketing guy say "Lets shove bunny thumper in the Cantha expansion" but ignore actual marketable Especs from GW1

Edit: Also if a marketing person decided Warrior needed a gunblade ripoff and though it would be well recieved, they should be fired.

Marketing at ANet is generally a complete joke. I will NOT let this company forget about it's absolutely ridiculous, irrelevant, and senseless launch trailer. I cannot believe that a company run by actual humans commissioned this, then reviewed it, and thought it was fit to release to represent their product. Astounding.

Honestly at this point, I'm not even sure what ANet's marketing folks do. Which I'm totally fine with, because until I'm convinced otherwise I believe the less we hear from ANet's marketing folks, the better.

[Rasimir.6239]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

Is that an NA thing cause i play on EU ridiculing seems quite unusual. Even then they carried him through the strike. If it was a Full clear group they could him kick nicer but still what should they do?

Nope, EU primetime. Point isn't whether he'd be able to change or not. Point is it only takes one bad apple (or one stupid experience) to sour somebody on that type of content for good. He's a grown man in his 50s and doesn't appreciate being treated like some middle-schooler that doesn't measure up to the expectations of those that think they're the cool kids. For him there's zero incentive to try again. He just went back to wvw and hasn't looked back since.

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Unfortunately, this is a behavior that can often be seen in Anet. Instead of successively improving systems/ideas/content, they are abandoned and the developers start with completely new things. This will always happen if devs (who want to work on their own new shiny things instead of improving "bad code" of others) are allowed to do this. And that's also why there are so many inconsistencies and unfixed bugs in GW2.

I'm sure there's some "want to work on their new shiny things" involved, but I'm also equally sure that's not the entire picture. Players flock to new stuff and won't have the same response to reworked old stuff. Yes, over the long term of the game, it would be great to go back and rework things, but that's not what grabs attention and generates excitement.

Ideally, a company finds a sweet spot where they devote enough resources to maintenance to steadily improve the game while also devoting enough resources to innovation to keep people excited about the next thing around the corner. But that's a difficult balancing act with limited resources.

They do go back and fix things from time to time. They implemented the ability to turn off trinket effects after how long? That improved quality of life for players. It made the game a slightly better game. But it certainly didn't generate the excitement of a new cosmetic infusion being added to the game.

If they go back and rework core dungeons, would the really get the same response as adding a new one into the game?

As much as developers are excited about creating new shinies, players are more attracted to new shinies as well. Deep down we're all just really Skritt.

[Rauderi.8706]

5 hours ago, xenon.3264 said:

 

didn't he stopped like 12 times saying the game was dead ? 

 

 

Right? I've no room for a fair-weather "friend" like that. Especially one that's not even a good person. 

[Rasimir.6239]

29 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

(snip)

I guess it's best if we just agree to disagree at this point, since I have the feeling I simply can't get my point across.

[yann.1946]

58 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Nope, EU primetime. Point isn't whether he'd be able to change or not. Point is it only takes one bad apple (or one stupid experience) to sour somebody on that type of content for good. He's a grown man in his 50s and doesn't appreciate being treated like some middle-schooler that doesn't measure up to the expectations of those that think they're the cool kids. For him there's zero incentive to try again. He just went back to wvw and hasn't looked back since.

While I completely emphasize and understand the desire to not engage with the content after, it's also pretty unfair in my opinion. 

 

The majority of players don't behave that way, and I honestly have no idea how such misconceptions can be broken. 

 

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

18 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I guess it's best if we just agree to disagree at this point, since I have the feeling I simply can't get my point across.

Getting into strikes has a bunch of hurdles. Putting on the right gear and traits, finding a group and interacting with strangers on the internet. Its a Game so some(apparently many) people don't want to "struggle" at all while playing a game in their free time. I get that.

 

But there is no solution to that problem. No real solution anyway.

You can ignore group content that has people relying on other people(current solution).

Anet can make all Strikes so easy you don´t have rely on other people at all. Basically removing that type of content.

Make muted groups were you cant kick other players? That would be more or less public strikes and nobody does that for a reason.

 

Difficulty cant be the problem. Capturing a camp in WvW solo is certainly more difficult then hitting the shiverpeak golem. You could probably do shiverpeaks duo with your friend for the lols.

 

If a no requirement group deemed his Dps to low for easy strikes i can only imagined he did show up with WvW traits and full trailblazer or something. Or there was a requirement in squad chat you guys didn't catch. No requirement still means you have to fulfil a role. In that case dps. But that does go without saying(i hope).

Sure they could have been nicer but if one mildly bad interaction with internet strangers is to much of a hurdle... There is no cure for that.

 

 

[Erise.5614]

7 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Mike O'Brien, when he was still in charge at Anet, once said that game development at Anet is always "hit or miss".  The studio was always trying to invent new things, the next big "hit". And they invented a lot of new things. But as a consequence it also means that they did not focus on improving the "misses" and instead just tried to abandon them to focus on the next things, that could be a "hit". I think that's also a key reason why Anet rarely improves existing systems and doesn't seem to learn from their mistakes.

 

Just to point that out. This suggests that all instanced content so far is considered a miss.

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I'm sure there's some "want to work on their new shiny things" involved, but I'm also equally sure that's not the entire picture. Players flock to new stuff and won't have the same response to reworked old stuff. Yes, over the long term of the game, it would be great to go back and rework things, but that's not what grabs attention and generates excitement.

Ideally, a company finds a sweet spot where they devote enough resources to maintenance to steadily improve the game while also devoting enough resources to innovation to keep people excited about the next thing around the corner. But that's a difficult balancing act with limited resources.

They do go back and fix things from time to time. They implemented the ability to turn off trinket effects after how long? That improved quality of life for players. It made the game a slightly better game. But it certainly didn't generate the excitement of a new cosmetic infusion being added to the game.

If they go back and rework core dungeons, would the really get the same response as adding a new one into the game?

As much as developers are excited about creating new shinies, players are more attracted to new shinies as well. Deep down we're all just really Skritt.

This is true... BUT. New content / new shiny things does not require a new delivery format / content presentation. Other games rarely improve / fix old content either. Though they don't abandon the concept of dungeons / raids on a fundamental level. Changing up everything from how story is delivered, how it's accessed, combat mechanics, etc.

Usually new content is focusing on a certain set of new shiny mechanics while keeping the fundamental game loop, how to interact with content, the name of the content, etc. either the same or similar. How the content exists within the game doesn't change between updates. 

Every iteration of instanced content in GW2 is very different from one another in almost all the major aspects. How it tells story, how to enter it, the name of the format, the length of a run, secondary mechanics, etc.

[Rasimir.6239]

18 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

While I completely emphasize and understand the desire to not engage with the content after, it's also pretty unfair in my opinion. 

 

The majority of players don't behave that way, and I honestly have no idea how such misconceptions can be broken. 

I know it's not the majority, but something changed over the years. Even I haven't dared to try the new strikes yet, due to not having any aquaintances I'd dare run them with right now, and I used to be very much into instanced content some years back. Those of my friends who never did much instanced content to begin with pretty much avoid that kind of content like the plague by now 😞 .

It's not that they don't want to (or can't) cooperate with others. They very much do so all the time, in open world, guild activities, (smallscale) wvw and the like, but the steps to get (back?) into fractals/strikes/raids feel like they've grown over the years. If you're not the kind of person that easily learns (or enjoys to learn) from youtube videos and don't have friends you trust to be ok with giving you the room to make errors while learning, then it isn't nearly as easy a gamemode to get into as it might look from the inside 😞 .