Can we go back to the 1st season system?

[Fivedawgs.4267]

3rd game in row with a afk'er on either side. Can you please stop awarding pip to losers? Bring back S1 - S2 system! Only reward pips after winning (5), remove pips for losing (4).

[Gundam Style.8495]

Don't need to remove, but yes they should stop rewarding for losses (pips to the chest).

[Fueki.4753]

Remove rewards and you also remove active players. Your idea is only good if you intend to kill off sPvP even faster.

The game mode needs more players to stay semi-afloat, not less.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Reikou.7068]

12 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Remove rewards and you also remove active players. Your idea is only good if you intend to kill off sPvP even faster.

The game mode needs more players to stay semi-afloat, not less.

so remove rewards for losing, and double rewards for winning, or even triple or quadruple rewards for winning.  

[Fueki.4753]

15 minutes ago, Reikou.7068 said:

so remove rewards for losing, and double rewards for winning, or even triple or quadruple rewards for winning.  

And then the mode will lose the players that want rewards for participating. sPvP is in no position to sacrifice these players.

As I said, sPvP needs more players, not less. Your idea does nothing but remove people from sPvP, making it deteriorate even faster.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Rank should be about the competition, not rewards. This would be fair if implemented.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[shion.2084]

I have an improvement.........

Reward pips as before for any loser that gets a top score.  If you don't get one... then you don't get a pip.  

   AND if match making is so crap that one player gets any 4 (or more) top scores... they don't lose rank.   (Anets match making algorithm loses rank for putting them with such an unmatched team).

Edited May 9, 2022 by shion.2084

[Stand The Wall.6987]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And then the mode will lose the players that want rewards for participating. sPvP is in no position to sacrifice these players.

As I said, sPvP needs more players, not less. Your idea does nothing but remove people from sPvP, making it deteriorate even faster.

participation rewards are killing off pvp with pve people who don't care about winning and bots. besides, if the rewards for winning were increased so that the overall win/ loss rewards were the same per hour or whatever as the old rewards, what difference does it make? at least with the change you encourage people to get better and instill a more competitive mindset in the player base. catering to casuals for the sake of optics and the safe choice has failed and will always fail in a competitive mode, whether its pve or pvp.

[Fueki.4753]

22 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

participation rewards are killing off pvp with pve people who don't care about winning and bots. besides, if the rewards for winning were increased so that the overall win/ loss rewards were the same per hour or whatever as the old rewards, what difference does it make? at least with the change you encourage people to get better and instill a more competitive mindset in the player base. catering to casuals for the sake of optics and the safe choice has failed and will always fail in a competitive mode, whether its pve or pvp.

Not everyone has a balanced win/loss ratio, there are always people who lose significantly more often than they win.

With your idea, they'd get significantly less in return for their effort and thus they leave the mode behind. With losing these people, sPvP dies a little bit more. That's not a sacrifice that would give any benefit to sPvP. It'd be a direct net loss.

Meanwhile, AFK people continue getting their kicks out of the thought that they made four others feel bad.

46 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Rank should be about the competition, not rewards. This would be fair if implemented.

There is nothing competitive in sPvP these days. Arenanet made sure it's just a joke now.

Gaining 333% more pips than the other team should be enough reward for winning.

Getting a team you literally have no control over getting feels just bad.

What exactly would be fair making players feel bad with something they literally have no say in, wasting 10 to 15 minutes of their time and not even giving something as compensation?

And if it's about effort, almost noone would be eligible for rewards, as most matches are just landslide wins around the 500-200 scores. Certainly, such a winning team didn't even need to put in effort for such an easy win.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[shion.2084]

Again... why not reward losers with consolation pips ONLY if they get a top score.

More than that... avoid rank loss for loser's who have 4 or more top scores.

[Gundam Style.8495]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Remove rewards and you also remove active players. Your idea is only good if you intend to kill off sPvP even faster.

The game mode needs more players to stay semi-afloat, not less.

I got a feeling that this game mode is doomed no matter what they do, at this point. I'm just taking wild guess, that the game is not going into maintenance mode, but SPVP seems like it is.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Gundam Style.8495

[Luthan.5236]

Bad suggestion. As others mentioned: Would lower the player count - if they play other content instead. I like to to 3-4 daily matches to fully get the seasonal chest. Then maybe playing less (for the dailies only) - I still like to win - cause it gives more pips. (Faster regarding the time you need.)

And I would still play "for fun" only if the rewards were removed. (Basically they would be "removed" if you have 50 percent win rate but also get pips removed for losing ... unless the amount of pics was drastically changed - which was needed for the chests.)

Maybe instead of 3-4 matches a day - each day ... I'd play 1 match a day or so. Top stats do not mean anything. Can incentive bad play style instead though - just run to cap far (even if you lose it) constantly ... to get a sure "top offensive".

Edited May 9, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Fueki.4753]

7 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

I got a feeling that this game mode is doomed no matter what they do, at this point. I'm just taking wild guess, that the game is not going into maintenance mode, but SPVP seems like it is.

I agree with that sentiment. The best they could do at this point is applying damage control to slow the deterioration.

In my opinion, the biggest problem had been that Arenanet refused to even try to balance the game properly. And this lead to the mode dying more and more each time they less-than-half-heartedly touch it.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

32 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Not everyone has a balanced win/loss ratio, there are always people who lose significantly more often than they win.

if they don't put in the absolute bare minimum to maintain a 40/60 win loss ratio (where the increased win rewards compensate for the increased losses), then kitten em. its like forcing ppl in a raid to carry players who can't do more then 10k dps. its built in toxicity and makes for bad gameplay. the gameplay should be the focus, not appealing to the lowest common denominator. you can't satisfy everyone, so its best to grow some balls as a dev and implement mechanics that encourage ppl TRY TO WIN. end of story.

[Aktium.9506]

Nah. The first seasons were garbage. I got Legendary rank in all of them and it sure as hell wasn't through merit. You could just grind it out, I think it was like 400~ games in a season for guaranteed Leggy.

[Fivedawgs.4267]

45 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

Nah. The first seasons were garbage.

I think you are confusing the bunker meta with the algorithm. The first season algorithm worked.

 

And why is everyone so fixated on the PVP population? A bad algorithm is still a bad algorithm, notwithstanding the number of players on any given day - This shouldn't matter! It is bad! As a pvp'er and WvW'er, I do not expect to partake in high-end PvE. As a matter of fact, I never have raided and have a hard time finding a team in high-level fractals.

 

So why should pvp'er deal with bots under the guise of the game population? A bad algorithm is still bad - they need to fix it, or they will destroy our community. Pvp'ers are competitive - Anet needs to stop awarding losers. Bring back the pip system and lengthen the off-season period.

[Stallic.2397]

They should just reward losses off of personal contribution in comparison to the team and enemy team. 

 

This would require all teammates to input their build role before the match. Either that would be damage/offense roamer, heals, or tank/defense on nodes. 

If that's too complicated because you don't know your role, don't play ranked. 

 

The matchmaker would then judge your participation points off your stats at the end of the match. If you chose healer but a roamer laughably beat you in heals. No points for you! If you choose damage and you're only third in damage, kitten off. Same for all other roles 

 

If your team won, then everyone gets the same points. If this sounds stupid, then ask yourself, what's the point of stats at the end if they don't serve a purpose?? 

 

Would this create hyper focused roles in Pvp. Yes! And it should. Conquest is not about doing everything well, it's about doing your specific role as best at possible. If you do your best and your teammate doesn't. You still deserve points. The loss isn't your fault. 

[Infinity.2876]

11 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

They should just reward losses off of personal contribution in comparison to the team and enemy team. 

 

This would require all teammates to input their build role before the match. Either that would be damage/offense roamer, heals, or tank/defense on nodes. 

If that's too complicated because you don't know your role, don't play ranked. 

 

The matchmaker would then judge your participation points off your stats at the end of the match. If you chose healer but a roamer laughably beat you in heals. No points for you! If you choose damage and you're only third in damage, kitten off. Same for all other roles 

 

If your team won, then everyone gets the same points. If this sounds stupid, then ask yourself, what's the point of stats at the end if they don't serve a purpose?? 

 

Would this create hyper focused roles in Pvp. Yes! And it should. Conquest is not about doing everything well, it's about doing your specific role as best at possible. If you do your best and your teammate doesn't. You still deserve points. The loss isn't your fault. 

This would work, in theory, but profession/ elite spec balance is not great to say the least

 

You could be trying really hard on an ele and and a necro of a Willbender will just easily throw out as many of not more conditions and boons.

 

If it They did it now mostly diehards playing warrior and ele would.only have chances at getting top kills or top defense/offense at a stretch. The top damage and (yes ok that ele could get heals if they played support tempest) heals would go to the more powerful/easy play builds

Edited May 9, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[Stallic.2397]

1 hour ago, Infinity.2876 said:

This would work, in theory, but profession/ elite spec balance is not great to say the least

 

You could be trying really hard on an ele and and a necro of a Willbender will just easily throw out as many of not more conditions and boons.

 

If it They did it now mostly diehards playing warrior and ele would.only have chances at getting top kills or top defense/offense at a stretch. The top damage and (yes ok that ele could get heals if they played support tempest) heals would go to the more powerful/easy play builds

 

I've thought of this. Balance is inherently a problem, more in MAT rather than ranked. As teapot mentioned in his videos, Ranked has higher carry potential with various builds due to ranging levels of skill amongst the player base. Whereas MAT will always favor a small percentage of builds... because BuildWars2 is a thing.

 

Even still, if the proposed mechanic was introduced, it would clearly reveal the strongest of builds as time progresses. Anet would have even more data to buff/nerf certain builds because Players will start choosing builds that fulfill specific roles. And there will be more stats proving which builds perform those roles the best.

 

What Anet does with that information afterwards is on them... But this is a casual game in general. Do people really expect Balance Perfection?   

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

6 hours ago, Reikou.7068 said:

so remove rewards for losing, and double rewards for winning, or even triple or quadruple rewards for winning.  

This. It should be like this in Ranked.

 

The rewards for losing should go over to Unranked if people don't want to lose them entirely.

That's where those kinds of rewards belong.

 

We shouldn't have to be baited into playing Ranked/competitive with shiny jingle-key rewards.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

5 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Meanwhile, AFK people continue getting their kicks out of the thought that they made four others feel bad.

I like how people just completely ignored this point you brought up, and it's completely true. 

It's already bad enough that people can afk and throw a match as is, but giving them the power to do it and completely deny rewards for your team would be even more incentive for them to do it. 

 

Also, to all of you saying that you shouldn't play ranked for rewards, have fun with an even more bare set of players to play against as you whine about worsening que times in your next breath. 

[shion.2084]

54 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

I like how people just completely ignored this point you brought up, and it's completely true. 

It's already bad enough that people can afk and throw a match as is, but giving them the power to do it and completely deny rewards for your team would be even more incentive for them to do it. 

 

Also, to all of you saying that you shouldn't play ranked for rewards, have fun with an even more bare set of players to play against as you whine about worsening que times in your next breath. 

Hence my suggestion that you tie loser pips to top scores…. They can’t totally deny a team but they’ll get nothing

[Sigmoid.7082]

5 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Hence my suggestion that you tie loser pips to top scores…. They can’t totally deny a team but they’ll get nothing

The things top scores are given for aren't always indicative of behaviour that would win a match. Promoting them also would drive unwanted behaviour and send a strange message. 

[shion.2084]

3 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

The things top scores are given for aren't always indicative of behaviour that would win a match. Promoting them also would drive unwanted behaviour and send a strange message. 

Sure, but probably means you played

[shion.2084]

You see my suggestion of four top scores and no rank loss would keep people potentially playing.   Only awarding pip to losers with top scores would help mitigate first rouNd quitting millennials.  Basically it gives millennials motivation to keep playing and not suck out.  In my generation, you start a thing you finish a thing…. But that’s just not how it is anymore.

 

trolls that like to afk for pips won’t get them… but won’t tank everyone else for pip reward at least…..  it has multiple synergies