Balance Patchnotes (WvW) May 10

[subversiontwo.7501]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/114812-game-update-notes-may-10-2022

Overall theme, just broad co-eff nerfs to popular large-scale damage buttons (mainly ranged spike buttons). Small-scale largely unaffected.

Necromancer

Spoiler

 

"Rise!" is a skill that we've seen a lot of feedback around following the last set of balance changes. One of the primary issues with the skill is the number of minions that it's capable of summoning, as these minions can potentially soak up a lot of damage while also creating damage threats via Death Nova. To address this, we've reduced the target cap of the skill, which will both reduce the number of minions summoned and increase the cooldown of the skill by granting fewer hits of cooldown reduction from Augury of Death.

• "Rise!": Reduced maximum number of targets struck from 5 to 2 in WvW only.
• Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.6 in WvW only.

Another World vs. World goal for this update is to bring down some of the primary sources of ranged area-of-effect damage to create more opportunities for melee pushes. Ranged versus melee is always going to be a delicate balance as we do want both options to be viable, but we currently feel that ranged pressure is too high, and we're making some adjustments. For necromancer, this involves bringing down the damage of Well of Suffering and Well of Corruption. Unholy Feast is also being brought back down to its previous damage value, as the increase from the previous update pushed it a bit higher than it needed to be.

• Well of Suffering: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.9 to 0.65 in WvW only.
• Well of Corruption: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.35 to 0.28 in WvW only.
• Unholy Feast: Reduced power coefficient from 1.3 to 1.0 in WvW only.

 

Revenant

Spoiler

 

The revenant's hammer is another source of ranged pressure that we looked at for this update, with both Coalescence of Ruin and Phase Smash receiving damage reductions.

• Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced power coefficient from 1.15 to 0.91 in WvW only.
• Phase Smash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 1.0 in WvW only.

Vindicator has continued to overperform in PvP, largely due to the defensive strength of the Kurzick side of Legendary Alliance Stance. We want to keep the energy costs on the lower side to maintain the flow when switching between the two sides, but the cooldowns of Tree Song and Battle Dance make them too easy to use repeatedly while staying on the Kurzick side. Saint's Shield is also getting an adjustment to its attribute scaling to bring down the sustainability of Avatar Amulet builds. We're continuing to keep an eye on the strength of Saint's Shield for nonhealing builds, but we want to gauge the impact of the adjustments to Tree Song and Battle Dance before making any further changes there.

• Tree Song: Reduced the number of conditions removed from 5 to 3 in PvP only. Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP only.
• Battle Dance: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.
• Saint's Shield: Reduced healing and barrier attribute scaling from 1.0 to 0.7 in PvP only.

While the defensive side of the vindicator has been strong, its offensive capability has been a bit less impressive since the adjustment to Eternity's Requiem. We've bumped up the damage on some of its weaker skills on the greatsword and the Luxon side of Legendary Alliance Stance to make damage-focused vindicators a bit more threatening.

• Phantom's Onslaught: Increased power coefficient from 1.18 to 1.33 in PvP and WvW.
• Scavenger Burst: Increased power coefficient from 1.25 to 1.55 in PvP only.
• Nomad's Advance: Increased power coefficient from 2.0 to 2.3 in PvP and WvW.
• Spear of Archemorus: Increased power coefficient from 2.33 to 2.67 in PvP and WvW. Reduced energy cost from 20 to 15 in PvP and WvW.

 

Elementalist

Spoiler

 

Elementalist is another profession getting a pair of adjustments to some of its more potent ranged damage skills, namely Meteor Shower and the Firestorm from Fiery Greatsword.

• Meteor Shower: Reduced power coefficient from 1.1 to 0.88 in WvW only.
• Firestorm (Conjure Fiery Greatsword): Reduced maximum number of targets struck from 10 to 5 in WvW only.
• Fiery Eruption (Conjure Fiery Greatsword): Reduced maximum number of targets struck from 10 to 5 in WvW only.

 

Guardian

Spoiler

 

Finishing up the ranged damage adjustments for this update are a pair of changes for guardian, bringing down the damage of Symbol of Punishment and Sword of Justice.

• Symbol of Punishment: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.33 to 0.28 in WvW only.
• Sword of Justice: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.54 to 0.45 in WvW only. Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in WvW only.

 

I don't think I missed anything, everything else seems to be sPvP only.

Edited May 10, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Telgum.6071]

I have this feeling of Arenanet not being happy with Herald being more present in blobs than Vindicator.

Anyway, when is the next #balanceever thread dropping?

[subversiontwo.7501]

26 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Anyway, when is the next #balanceever thread dropping?

Hard to say, in defense of the hashtag-enjoyers, I must say that I find the changes a tad milky. The theme is easy to see, with all the spike nerfs, likely to offset the support nerfs in the last patch to balance out the ranges. However, control has often had a larger impact on that balance (or is more impactful) and damage balances have felt kinda decent to me recently. So, if anything, this feels more like a "shake up" nerf of what's popular just to roll the dice and see what comes up rather than oriented towards any specific goal. I could be wrong, time will tell after all and we've only seen the notes so far, but I don't see much of what it would shake up to be honest.

I would have preferred some more pointed changes that aims at polishing off-meta things or classes, builds or roles at the fringes with some sort of at least broad idea of what they are expected to do well.

Edited May 10, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Draygo.9473]

I don't think Anet is going to be able to balance melee vs ranged without touching the only balance lever that will matter, and that is the cleave cap for melee vs ranged.

 

The problem with just nerfing ranged skills like they are doing is they are affecting small group/roaming play negatively. Cleave cap is the only lever that if it gets adjusted does not affect 1v1 or small group balance. I worry that anet is going to nerf ranged too hard to make melee viable when its probably better for them to look at additional tuning lever. 

[Morden Kain.3489]

7 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I could be wrong, time will tell after all and we've only seen the notes so far, but I don't see much of what it would shake up to be honest.

I agree.  Wonder what they are intending for next month.

[Mikhael.2391]

so the new meme builds from specter ele mesmer just stay as is. I would be ashamed to work there...

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

anet again just nerfs coefficients and makes monki things harder to kill... its so annoying

 

such a pointless, numb, clueless nerfparade... outside of the reaper, everything nerfed here is just completely random and has zero validity

[subversiontwo.7501]

8 hours ago, Draygo.9473 said:

I don't think Anet is going to be able to balance melee vs ranged without touching the only balance lever that will matter, and that is the cleave cap for melee vs ranged.

 

The problem with just nerfing ranged skills like they are doing is they are affecting small group/roaming play negatively. Cleave cap is the only lever that if it gets adjusted does not affect 1v1 or small group balance. I worry that anet is going to nerf ranged too hard to make melee viable when its probably better for them to look at additional tuning lever. 

I find this to be a rather odd take on things for a couple of reasons:

The balance has been pretty good over the past year or two. It hasn't been stellar (with too many melee builds still exlcuded) but it has contained a mixture of both ranged and melee calls. Not every norm or meta has. So, for me at least, the concern is rather that they will upset things that work well without being able to adress issues that do not work as well. It doesn't feel pointed or purposeful enough, perhaps it will become with time or with the june patch.

Most of the abilities in the list are not commonly used at smaller scale or in roaming. They're not nerfing ranged damage across the board. While there is reason for some concern such as overall grouped balance and cross-scaling (ie., 5v15 or 15v25 etc.) or how balancing eg., boons and damage against oneanother can lead to some wonky future balance issues, I'm sure they won't really affect you or the things you are concerned about.

The cleave cap, well, that topic feels like it has been rather exhausted at this point. You'll have to excuse me if I read too much into your comment and lump you in with others who raise similar concerns, but the majority on this forum now are people who play "alone, next to each other", ie., clouding, defending and confuse that with roaming etc., and changes like these will not make massed uncoordinated damage from/around walls any more or less viable. Don't qoute me on it, but I think Anet are firmly back in the camp of not promoting that over more intentional cooperation and community building. Even if you prefer playing small or play defensively, they want small groups with more intent. Changes like these affect all of these things, but they affect them differently: So, I think some small concern about how this will affect eg., 5v15 is fair - but if the concern is how 1x5 solo players measure up to a group of 15, where they're not only outnumbered but also out-organised and usually outplayed, Anet are not likely to listen and that is for a reason.

Edited May 11, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Ah yes, the Noodle Shower was nerfed, these 3k crits on boon blobs were really dungerous~

[LordHT.8297]

When will arenanet learn that every nerf in damage and sustain makes the big 1111 brainlesss 60 men blobs stronger?

The strength of these giant groups is in the number of players they have and not in the damage coefficient of their skills or the quality of their builds. All these nerfs only affect the small and organized groups that try to oppose these big blobs.
After anet killed the zerg busting in that infamous power damage nerf in the past, the most organized guilds only had 3 options: become giant blobs, hide themselves in the gvg parallel universe or leave the game and we know how many guilds dropped after that patch. All these patches are making wvw more and more frustrating, dumb friendly and spliting the community. Bring back the "power creep" and hardcore wvw!  Make a well-organized and trained group of 20 people able to kill 80 disorganized, non-button-busting players again! 

Stop encouraging the brainless blobing meta!

[God.2708]

14 minutes ago, Tiagoht.7549 said:

When will arenanet learn that every nerf in damage and sustain makes the big 1111 brainlesss 60 men blobs stronger?

The strength of these giant groups is in the number of players they have and not in the damage coefficient of their skills or the quality of their builds. All these nerfs only affect the small and organized groups that try to oppose these big blobs.
After anet killed the zerg busting in that infamous power damage nerf in the past, the most organized guilds only had 3 options: become giant blobs, hide themselves in the gvg parallel universe or leave the game and we know how many guilds dropped after that patch. All these patches are making wvw more and more frustrating, dumb friendly and spliting the community. Bring back the "power creep" and hardcore wvw!  Make a well-organized and trained group of 20 people able to kill 80 disorganized, non-button-busting players again! 

Stop encouraging the brainless blobing meta!

I know right. I should be able to cast one skill and kill all 60 of those brainless idiots because I'm such an elite skillful player and they can't mouse click their stamina bar as fast as I can.

[LordHT.8297]

11 minutes ago, God.2708 said:

I know right. I should be able to cast one skill and kill all 60 of those brainless idiots because I'm such an elite skillful player and they can't mouse click their stamina bar as fast as I can.

Yeah, you must be able to press w, 1, never dodge and run over any group smaller than yours no matter what they do. WvW was never just a matter of numbers until the balance team aka nerf team arrived. They can't do balances in wvw like they do in spvp, these nerfs don't have the same effect in wvw.

[Riba.3271]

34 minutes ago, Tiagoht.7549 said:

Stop encouraging the brainless blobing meta!

Blobbings was kinda dying tho. Almost no server has commanders that tag up outside weekend. It is all guild raids or clouders.

 

It just shows that 50v50 meta wasn't that much fun. Fights were basically 1 ranged spike, killing 10 and then yolo push shouting "uga uga" or other monkey noises.

 

34 minutes ago, Tiagoht.7549 said:

All these nerfs only affect the small and organized groups that try to oppose these big blobs.

It also affects clouds massively. Some servers were literally just sitting in SM with ranged builds farming any newbies. While it seems fun, one server stacking with experienced players holding SM every day of the week and winning every fight while not dying kinda kills the map and any chance of introducing new players to WvW.

Servers quality before this patch was literally decided how many good dps revs,  guards or eles they have on the server, not by how organised they are. Just go to stacked server and cloud in SM.

Honestly. I do not see why 20v60 should be a balance goal. Just go open tag or group with other guilds. Your enemies and allies are people too.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Threather.9354

[God.2708]

6 minutes ago, Tiagoht.7549 said:

Yeah, you must be able to press w and 1 and run over any group smaller than yours no matter what they do. WvW was never just a matter of numbers until the balance team aka nerf team arrived. They can't do balances in wvw like they do in spvp, these nerfs don't have the same effect in wvw.

That has been WvW since the dawn of time. Anything that let a big group lose to a smaller group is still a factor.
-Is the big blob in an amalgation of greens and yellows they got from leveling up?
-Is the blob consisting of 50% of players who are uplevels?
-Is the blob full of players who started the game two weeks ago and haven't learned you shouldn't double tap to dodge?

Those are all factors in blob busting. Skill balance is not. I blob bust when the above things happen with a whole 5 people, even in this horrible 'boon ball' meta. If you CAN'T do it, either the enemy isn't as brainless you are trying to make them out to be. Or you aren't as good as you think you are.

[LordHT.8297]

5 minutes ago, God.2708 said:

That has been WvW since the dawn of time. Anything that let a big group lose to a smaller group is still a factor.
-Is the big blob in an amalgation of greens and yellows they got from leveling up?
-Is the blob consisting of 50% of players who are uplevels?
-Is the blob full of players who started the game two weeks ago and haven't learned you shouldn't double tap to dodge?
 

This is not true. WvW in the past was a very hostile environment for large blobs. We have a lot of skills of 10+ targets, much more strips and damage per hit, open field dragon banners etc.

In the old days even giant blobs needed to do constant training to survive in wvw and have some fun, nowadays this is no longer necessary. Anyone who can get 50 in their squad can just W key any 20 man gvg guild and that's how you turn WvW into a matter of quantity only

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

It always the same a race to the bottom .

 

When I read the Revenant nerfs I was YEAH Ele is back being Meta

Read Ele batch notes : Okay there is a reason why I'm not playing this😪

[Dadnir.5038]

Start: "Rise!": This skill produce to many minions that end up taking hit for other so we nerfed it.

Then: We go on an AoE damage nerf round because there are still people that are downed in zergs.

🤪

[God.2708]

19 minutes ago, Tiagoht.7549 said:

This is not true. WvW in the past was a very hostile environment for large blobs. We have a lot of skills of 10+ targets, much more strips and damage per hit, open field dragon banners etc.

In the old days even giant blobs needed to do constant training to survive in wvw and have some fun, nowadays this is no longer necessary. Anyone who can get 50 in their squad can just W key any 20 man gvg guild and that's how you turn WvW into a matter of quantity only

This is not True. WvW has always been friendly to large blobs that bothered to know how to play. I don't know why you think you can gather 20 skilled players but not 50 skilled players, beyond scheduling conflicts.

[vonhellsing.2819]

more easy delete necro, when we start give dps again nerf, nerf nerf. saddly

[vonhellsing.2819]

It's hard, I don't have much time to play, I've been playing for 9 years, I love wvw, but even so I can't get to a build with legendary items, because when I finish 1 item it's not even used by the usage build anymore. The wvw of the garbage reward, we are penalized all the time by nerfs, missing the comp that needed class combo from the beginning of GW2. A lot of mimimi for new players not knowing how to play, and they end up with classes. NECRO today can be deleted from the game, it suffers what ranger suffered in the first 2 years of the game, which was almost forbidden to play wvw. Today the class's salvation was RISE build, since scourges aren't even accepted on pt anymore. Congratulations Anet, killed the necro again.

[vonhellsing.2819]

who is the GENIUS thats want turn NECRO in MELEE ?
 

Quote

Another World vs. World goal for this update is to bring down some of the primary sources of ranged area-of-effect damage to create more opportunities for melee pushes.

 

[Kontrolle.3514]

this really is bad for fighting in an outnumbered situation. It doesnt matter if 30 people hit me for 4k or for 2k. But damage matters if you fight against a blob. We should be able to kill at least a couple of them befor we get overrun ....

Edited May 10, 2022 by Kontrolle.3514

[Coldtart.4785]

Nothing in this patch will change anything. As long as med blaster exists the game cannot be good.

[Creativity.3816]

im sleep. this is barely a patch

 

how bout: "we realized the game is just spamming buttons now. we are reducing boon duration by 50% in wvw so the game actually takes skill (having infinite/perma boons for everyone in the group is not skill), and making expertise no longer scale the duration of non-damaging conditions"

 

start there

[Zedo.5804]

Welcome to Nerf Wars 2...