High-tech: "But it's always been there!"

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And they've equaled where Asura are now. Cooperatively and pushing for user friendly, public use items.

It's not like they've built the worlds best laser beam or an entirely unknown, new thing.

People act as if they are doing super amazing brand new stuff but really, it's the same stuff Rata Sum has since the start. They've faced troubles in the Risen and other threats, but have focused R&D on improving quality of life for their people. Not all tech comes from war.

It's also proven that Joon had access to Asura science manuals and tech books, even if they are old. Her mansion is filled with foreign artifacts from even the Shiverpeaks as a jab at nobility.

 

The the Asura have been working on technology for how long?  Then all of a sudden a nation that didn't use technology comes out of nowhere and becomes their equal simply because they have a power source.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

If you go back to my earlier posts, it doesn't really matter whether it came specifically from Joon or not.

You might have forgotten what you were initially responding to.

3 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

And all of these advances magically occur over the course of 16 years.

No, you seem to be completely missing the point or just intentionally avoiding it. What exactly do you think I wrote in my last few posts here? Because you seem to be completely avoiding the points made on the last page.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You might have forgotten what you were initially responding to.

No, you seem to be completely missing the point or just intentionally avoiding it. What exactly do you think I wrote in my last few posts here? Because you seem to be completely avoiding the points made on the last page.

 

It's because an isolated nation doesn't just suddenly become the most advanced over 16 years.  If you disagree, please provide examples.

[Silent.6137]

18 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

And all of these advances magically occur over the course of 16 years.

Impossible? No.

Probable? Not really....but then, we're talking about a fantasy game. It's as realistic as dragons, all the races, all the magic and how great I (and everyone else) look in the game.

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

It's because an isolated nation doesn't just suddenly become the most advanced over 16 years.  If you disagree, please provide examples.

Please read my previous posts, because with this response it just seems you've jump right over them. You stick to that "16 years" like it's some liferaft, but it was already commented about on the previous page. Make sure to re-read with understanding or tell me if you need me to link you those posts. (but you've quoted them on the previous page, so it's not like you didn't see them, seems you've just disregarded whatever they contained for some reason 🤨)

 

e: Whatever, I'll just link these posts right away to make it faster/clearer:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1666692

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1667022

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1667034

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1667073

Let me know what exactly is unclear for you from what is written there.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

42 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Please read my previous posts, because with this response it just seems you've jump right over them. You stick to that "16 years" like it's some liferaft, but it was already commented about on the previous page. Make sure to re-read with understanding or tell me if you need me to link you those posts. (but you've quoted them on the previous page, so it's not like you didn't see them, seems you've just disregarded whatever they contained for some reason 🤨)

 

e: Whatever, I'll just link these posts right away to make it faster/clearer:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1666692

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1667022

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1667034

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/115315-high-tech-but-its-always-been-there/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1667073

Let me know what exactly is unclear for you from what is written there.

 

Look at all of the other nations in Tyria who are not that far and haven't been isolated.  They are nowhere near the level of the Asura and yet Cantha somehow is or even surpasses them?  By all means point out examples where a nation can advance so quickly because they obtained a new power source.

[mythical.6315]

46 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Impossible? No.

Probable? Not really....but then, we're talking about a fantasy game. It's as realistic as dragons, all the races, all the magic and how great I (and everyone else) look in the game.

 

Yeah but then if you go down that rabbit hole then you can just make anything you imagine possible.

[Sobx.1758]

33 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Look at all of the other nations in Tyria who are not that far and haven't been isolated.  They are nowhere near the level of the Asura and yet Cantha somehow is or even surpasses them?  By all means point out examples where a nation can advance so quickly because they obtained a new power source.

Why not? Because you decided they shouldn't? 

...and you're still not acknowledging what was being said in those posts for some reason?

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Svarty.8019]

I'm looking forward to Guild Wars 3: Modern Guildwarfare.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

Yeah but then if you go down that rabbit hole then you can just make anything you imagine possible.

Now you’re getting it!

This is the kind of fantasy where anything happens the writers want to tell the story they want to tell.

Its comic book fantasy. We don’t worry about whether a man can build a virtually unlimited energy source that fits in the palm of his hand while a captive of terrorists, and we don’t worry about how that tech would have made the world unrecognizable to us in a few short years. We just accept it because it means he can wear a sweet suit of flying armor and bash bad guys!

Edited May 22, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Dante.1508]

All these people saying they are in a bubble and advanced.. Races tend to advance much faster when they are in conflict.. not when they are peaceful, I mean look at how the world advanced during World war 1 & 2 because they had too. Sure we've advanced since but no where on the scale they did back then, nearly all progression we've had was through conflict and military advancement.

 

Cantha makes very little sense. At least the Asuran technology makes some sense.

[Kalavier.1097]

 

10 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

Look at all of the other nations in Tyria who are not that far and haven't been isolated.  They are nowhere near the level of the Asura and yet Cantha somehow is or even surpasses them?  By all means point out examples where a nation can advance so quickly because they obtained a new power source.

Ah yes, include the fact the Asura have purposefully isolated themselves as the only source of the tech, actively destroy the tech or kill people trying to reverse engineer it (Caudecus manor dungeon path)(part of their hatred of the Skritt is literally just this), and when Rata Sum famously loves to showcase their own intelligence and complicate stuff to prove they are smarter. Also as I recall in their personal story step, they literally squashed certain types of research and even tried to murder the Asura scientists working on it?

Braham could understand the basics of what Taimi talked about in season 1, the other races can understand the tech, but the Asura have actively horded it and the few that do leave to join the orders do what they can.

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

All these people saying they are in a bubble and advanced.. Races tend to advance much faster when they are in conflict.. not when they are peaceful, I mean look at how the world advanced during World war 1 & 2 because they had too. Sure we've advanced since but no where on the scale they did back then, nearly all progression we've had was through conflict and military advancement.

 

Cantha makes very little sense. At least the Asuran technology makes some sense.

It's not like Cantha is totally at peace, with the Risen and other threats.

But anyway, a cooperative, large company working together to advance quality of life for the nation making advances doesn't make sense, but a race of infighting genuises who steal and fight each other, do not share research, and famously horde their tech and refuse to let any outside viewpoint in advancing does?

Again, at best they've reached a point of being on par with the Asura, with more focus on quality of life then "HAHA, I BUILT A GOLEM THAT FIRES TOAST BECAUSE BOB SAID I COULDN'T. kitten YOU BOB."

Let's for example, look back at Season 3. Taimi is brilliant sure, but she worked entirely alone and isolated herself because of a few big reasons. A: Phlunt would steal all her work, research, and claim credit (or credit at least until she was old enough to claim it herself as per Rata Sum laws). B: If Phlunt didn't steal stuff, other Asura would, especially with her only guardian figure in Asuran culture (Zojja) out of the picture).

So instead of working a normal schedule, getting decent amounts of sleep, collaborating and pinging ideas off various minds, she worked entirely alone and isolated as well as doing her regular tasks in Rata Novus along the other Asura. She had some trusted friends, but that was all a field team that went out to the Ring of Fire. Now imagine if the culture was cooperative instead of antagonistic. Taimi could've gotten regular sleep, being more rested and feeling better. Ideas could've been bounced and problems troubleshot quicker. They could've worked on devices and maybe produced things earlier, or came up with "Oh kitten, we shouldn't do X" faster.

As said earlier, the more Asura you get involved in a project, the more bickering and fighting there are. The Asura do not collaborate or cooperate in Rata Sum without some major benefits to both parties, or both parties planning an eventual backstab of the other.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Kalavier.1097

[Freya.9075]

This is an mmo. It has many different players with different opinions and views. Anet has to cater to them all, and it’s a good thing they do just that. Isn’t it time for us players to think less “me” or “I don’t like this” and more about the game as a whole for all the players that plays it? It’ll never happen, but it would make a much more happy community. If ppl accepted that other players like things you don’t like yourself. Or the other way around. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[Kalavier.1097]

12 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

This is an mmo. It has many different players with different opinions and views. Anet has to cater to them all, and it’s a good thing they do just that. Isn’t it time for us players to think less “me” or “I don’t like this” and more about the game as a whole for all the players that plays it? It’ll never happen, but it would make a much more happy community. If ppl accepted that other players like things you don’t like yourself. Or the other way around. 🤷🏼‍♀️

The biggest thing to do.

"I don't like this, you do. That is fine."

But so many miss the last bit.

[Dante.1508]

8 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

This is an mmo. It has many different players with different opinions and views. Anet has to cater to them all, and it’s a good thing they do just that. Isn’t it time for us players to think less “me” or “I don’t like this” and more about the game as a whole for all the players that plays it? It’ll never happen, but it would make a much more happy community. If ppl accepted that other players like things you don’t like yourself. Or the other way around. 🤷🏼‍♀️

The issue is people that "don't like this" tend to move on if things don't get fixed and do not spend money when they aren't around..

[Freya.9075]

8 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

The issue is people that "don't like this" tend to move on if things don't get fixed and do not spend money when they aren't around..

If they choose to move on, this game is not for them. They will not find the perfect mmo as this does not exist with so many different players. If they can’t accept that not all things fit their preferences, they would move on anyways. 

[Dante.1508]

1 minute ago, Freya.9075 said:

If they choose to move on, this game is not for them. They will not find the perfect mmo as this does not exist with so many different players. If they can’t accept that not all things fit their preferences, they would move on anyways. 

Thats fine until a large number do it as well.

[Freya.9075]

1 minute ago, Dante.1508 said:

Thats fine until a large number do it as well.

I would assume if that would happen, it already would. However the population in gw2 seems unaffected to this point. It’s a healthy playercount. 

[Dante.1508]

2 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I would assume if that would happen, it already would. However the population in gw2 seems unaffected to this point. It’s a healthy playercount. 

Maybe but its very low in EoD on my servers and game times.

[Flasterko.4087]

I must agree with OP.  This is too much. At some moments I felt like I have been playing different game and not GW2.  OP said everything what I would say.  

[Caitmonster.9036]

I've always felt like GW2 was something more like 'high fantasy' as opposed to 'realistic fantasy'. And in being high fantasy there's a bit more wiggle room in what is or isn't feasible. And personally, I don't mind the high fantasy stuff, I quite enjoy it. Then again this is coming from an ex-Tera player where you had once race based in a hyper technologically advanced city, contrasted with another race living in a giant tree, or others who lived in a massive iron stronghold fueled by magma and steam. Not unlike Rata Sum, the Grove, or the Citadel, come to think of it. 😄

But I get where it can rub some people the wrong way when there's an entire expansion focusing on the far more techy side of things. Fortunately there are oodles of far more realistic fantasy mmo games to scratch that itch.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Caitmonster.9036

[Cirian.8917]

I haven't bought this expac yet but the discussion reminds me a lot of The Exiled Realm of Arborea (TERA)'s blend of medieval-style fantasy areas (similar to Kryta), "fairy magic" style areas (similar to Sylvari areas), cold bits like the Shiverpeaks, etc, and also, very high tech areas. In TERA's case it was (as far as I understood the lore) a dimension-travelling space-faring species called the Argons. Instead of jade-themed tech, they had cyan-themed tech. Lots, and lots, of cyan.

TERA had odd class juxtapositions like guild wars 2 does. Lancers (dude with a shield and a pokey stick) fought beside gunners (every weapon from Unreal Tournament rolled into a giant gun called the Arcannon, or, Arcane Cannon). It was definitely odd, but on the other hand, a symptom of theme-park MMOs. And I would definitely classify GW2 as a theme-park MMO. And it's fine because you just go to those areas you like, and... don't go to the other ones.

*

A few have been wondering what the norn have brought, and, someone did remember Deldrimor steel. I suspect we have the norn to thank for spiritwood also, as the norn are the "spirit magic" race more, I think, than humans or sylvari even.

I find that the norn are adept at materials science, runes, sigils, "old magic", stuff to do with celestials and stars (Jotun magic), and make good members of the Priory (preservers of the ancient / tomb raiders / adventurers).

Since I play only norn and sylvari, I'm tempted to see what's happened to Echovald Forest, if it still exists?

Edited May 28, 2022 by Cirian.8917
formatting edit

[Astralporing.1957]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:21 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

Now you’re getting it!

This is the kind of fantasy where anything happens the writers want to tell the story they want to tell.

Its comic book fantasy. We don’t worry about whether a man can build a virtually unlimited energy source that fits in the palm of his hand while a captive of terrorists, and we don’t worry about how that tech would have made the world unrecognizable to us in a few short years. We just accept it because it means he can wear a sweet suit of flying armor and bash bad guys!

That's the problem. Becaue, you know, the main difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. Sure, author can make up anything they can imagine, but if it's too unrealistic to the readers, we end up with threads like that. If author switches genre to a completely different one, we also get threads like that. The author can make changes and introduce weird stuff just because they think it's cool, but the consequence is that if someone disagrees about the "cool" part, again, we get threads like that.

In the end, the more stuff like that you do, the more narrow the target group that's going to like it.

[Astralporing.1957]

19 hours ago, Caitmonster.9036 said:

I've always felt like GW2 was something more like 'high fantasy' as opposed to 'realistic fantasy'.

Indeed. It's just like there's a difference betwen "medieval fantasy" and "high fantasy", there's also a difference between "high fantasy" and "magitech". Those two types of "advanced magical setting" are very distinct, and follow completely different paths. High Fantasy is mystical and epic. Magitech is more futuristic and heavily scientific. Cantha is pure magitech, with not even a trace of high fantasy vibes.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's the problem. Becaue, you know, the main difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. Sure, author can make up anything they can imagine, but if it's too unrealistic to the readers, we end up with threads like that. If author switches genre to a completely different one, we also get threads like that. The author can make changes and introduce weird stuff just because they think it's cool, but the consequence is that if someone disagrees about the "cool" part, again, we get threads like that.

In the end, the more stuff like that you do, the more narrow the target group that's going to like it.

To me it entirely depends on the goal.

I love a good speculative fiction novel with a carefully thought out world and exploration of tech and culture.

On the other hand I can go enjoy a MCU movie where no one thinks too hard about how the various threats and heroes impact the world outside of threatening it and saving it.

But between the two, it’s not the first that has the wide target audience.