The ultimate proof that Mesmer is NOT fine in PvP

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Waffles.5632

Condi mirage which is the best mesmer build is like B. Power mirage not even close to that. And don't get me started at chrono and Core, they're garbage tier. 

So yeah the every mesmer spec is B+, close to A narrative is simply not true. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Waffles.5632]

Just now, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Waffles.5632

Condi mirage which is the best mesmer build is like B. Power mirage not even close to that. And don't get me started at chrono and Core, they're garbage tier. 

So yeah the every mesmer spec is B+, close to A narrative is simply not true. 

Condi Mirage is not the best Mesmer build atm imo.

 

I would rank them as follows :

Power Mirage - B ( part of me wants to say B+, other part wants to say B-, so B is the compromise I can give now)

Core - A

Chrono - B, or B- ( I find myself wanting to even go as far as C or D though so you are right on this one. Fair point. )

Condi Mirage - A

Condi Virtu - A+ (I think it will get nerfed soon though)

Power Virtu - ??? (Idk enough about this spec to rate it fairly)

 

So I can only say this, sorry I forgot about chrono lol! I have legit seen only 1 chrono over the past 4months, and they were very good with it, but yeah. My b! Aside from chrono, I feel Mesmer is in a B state atm. Which, idk Anet's design/balance philosophy, are they wanting every spec to be pvp viable? Or are they simply happy that chrono is meh in pvp, while being way better in pve? And to them that is part of the balance. I ask because if it is, good luck trying to ask for chrono changes right?  I would agree, if we want all mesmer specs to be viable/functional in pvp, chrono should get buffs before mirage or virtu. It has been long overdue.

 

 

[semak.7481]

 

9 hours ago, katte nici.9483 said:

You are literally... clicking your skills... with your mouse cursor...

I havent read even a single word from him... until I saw your comment ... I had to check the video if thats true, unfortunately... it was... now I have a PTSD and on my way to my therapist, I hope he can help me to unsee this.

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

And I can garantee you that you didn't understood a word of what I wrote as it wasn't a critic of the video but a critic of the general mindset that players have in PvP nowaday. Simply put, people would rather blame their class or the opponent's class than admit that they might not be as good as they think they are.

(context of a pvp here)Not entirely sure, if you meant that mesmer/warrior(in a long time these werent represented aside from some memers who rightfuly lost 😆)  as a class is actually very very very good in pvp but all people just suck? This class representation tells you nothing? Another NO STACKING tournament where all classes were : specter, WB,HB,vindi,tempest with occasional core guarian and untamed. ~8h long video of these only (ofc I havent seen all 8h, skipped to the most interesting games).

If thats what you meant, why Misha struggles to play even ranked  on his main, uk, he's playing since the release or so and has to swap to a more useful classes to actually WIN?

He struggled to kill herald who is supposed to be weak to conditions, his every game he is on the quest to run for his life, very inspiring for fellow mesmers :)

Edited May 26, 2022 by semak.7481

[Waffles.5632]

1 hour ago, semak.7481 said:

 

 I had to check the video if thats true, unfortunately...

 

 Aww, hey! Thank you for the view! 😁

[Mik.3401]

No sh!t Sherlock we know it since like 2015.

this is a troll class in its core, and Anet happens to be one of those studios who don’t know how to handle such classes well(or competitive game mode in general). So they just castrated it and problem solved.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Mik.3401

[aymnad.9023]

7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

And I can garantee you that you didn't understood a word of what I wrote as it wasn't a critic of the video but a critic of the general mindset that players have in PvP nowaday. Simply put, people would rather blame their class or the opponent's class than admit that they might not be as good as they think they are.

 

With the posts your answered to, I would never have guessed. Yes I agree. It is either is that or your teammate’s fault.

[Puck.3697]

9 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

This class representation tells you nothing? Another NO STACKING tournament where all classes were : specter, WB,HB,vindi,tempest with occasional core guarian and untamed. ~8h long video of these only (ofc I havent seen all 8h, skipped to the most interesting games

Class representation if we are talking the top 1% of content then not rly no. It's the same in every mmorpgs. 

When it comes to the best of the best they are squeezing for the absolute 1% increase to win ratio. Even in the most balanced mmorpg you see these trends realistically. 

To what he's saying, I think he's more stating that mesmer isn't the reason players get stuck in gold, and alot of people will embellish problems to excuse the fact they get stuck in ranks. 

Mesmers is not in the best shape, but there's also a reason RIP continously got rank 1 also. 

 

 

[Mell.4873]

On 5/24/2022 at 11:53 PM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Can't wait for the two usual people to come here and say how this data is bad and mesmer is op.

I don't post on the forum any more, only on reddit.

Your comment proves exactly why I don't. 

Ps, you are just bashing someone who said they did okay with mirage

Edited May 27, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Salt Mode.3780]

Yes because we need the positivity on reddit, that is the reason why this game's competitive scenario is dying, good job. As well as lackluster updates and thoughtless balances.

People have been waiting too long hoping something will change, waiting for broken promises.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Senqu.8054]

18 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Condi Mirage is not the best Mesmer build atm imo.

 

I would rank them as follows :

Power Mirage - B ( part of me wants to say B+, other part wants to say B-, so B is the compromise I can give now)

Core - A

Chrono - B, or B- ( I find myself wanting to even go as far as C or D though so you are right on this one. Fair point. )

Condi Mirage - A

Condi Virtu - A+ (I think it will get nerfed soon though)

Power Virtu - ??? (Idk enough about this spec to rate it fairly)

 

So I can only say this, sorry I forgot about chrono lol! I have legit seen only 1 chrono over the past 4months, and they were very good with it, but yeah. My b! Aside from chrono, I feel Mesmer is in a B state atm. Which, idk Anet's design/balance philosophy, are they wanting every spec to be pvp viable? Or are they simply happy that chrono is meh in pvp, while being way better in pve? And to them that is part of the balance. I ask because if it is, good luck trying to ask for chrono changes right?  I would agree, if we want all mesmer specs to be viable/functional in pvp, chrono should get buffs before mirage or virtu. It has been long overdue.

 

 

Well, this is another way to demonstrate that you are either a) a troll or b) extremely unexperienced

[semak.7481]

Someone, who is full of bs quoted me here, but since hes on the block list, I cant see and accidentaly seen that from a phone.

Misha for a long time played mesmer in mAT or whenever he could without condeming his team to a 100% loss (when that condition becomes true, he swap his class) and being practically the only mesmer player out there.

Swapping from a class, on which, you have 8+ years of experience to another class that as good as yours by your claims (1%), the most stupid thing I ever heard. 

AneD wont show us class winrates/representation on different rating levels, would be funny to watch. It could be scewed by wintraders abit but that would be interesting to see.

Every good mesmer player I know, all of them say the same, mesmer is utter garbage, just as irritated as I am, struggling with so much exerience on their back against bad facerollers playing OP meta class. Everyone suddenly became bad on their main with immensive experience obtainted through the years but obtained ability to be super good on meta classes and doomed to be bad at their own. 

Bringing up a wintrader... good job. Tanking rating on a stream (with another account), dodging competition, Q'ing at nights and wintrading on top. (otherwise 1-2 losses would quickly brick his top1 against other candidates for the same top1). A wide known recipe to top 1, but how do u know, right? 🤡

Extending "top1" topic, before EoD I'v seen Demolish (spb player) being top1 for weeks during season while he was playing at prime time, unlike your precious wintrader. But warriors are nonstop crying how bad their class is constantly. Players that actually play the game are punished for playing more games than these who sit out wintrading at night with minimum amount of games, so no one ever know about them until last minute of a season end, ranked in this game made by a  🤡

For the same reasons totally unknown wvw 🤡 with bought titles are running around there.

Adham - a necro whos always been gold3-plat1 is god of pvp, it just took around ~8 people who wintrade for him.

I wonder, if your mission was just to kitten me off 🤡

[Tseison.4659]

Other professions just have better kits than us unfortunately. 🤷‍♂️

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

You make the most ignorant statements with such supreme confidence lmfao.

You and your ilk are nothing but a giant waste of time unfortunately. I was hoping that at least one person could back up their BS claims, but none of you have. All you can do is parrot that mesmer sucks, and then insult/dismiss anything different. It must legit be sad to be in your world full of closed off walls and boxes.

The real troll is you, sorry. I have already proven my solo queue pvp experience with Power Mirage, the proclaimed weakest spec of the weakest class in pvp, can at the very least, secure a 56% win rate. The only thing stopping you guys from being good on Mesmer is yourself.

You lot would run into the same problem on any class, get good hahaha

 

 

This statement is ignorant, based on the MAT results Mesmer did not win a match at all nor was it represented nearly as much at all. Granted there are other classes that were also on the list on no representation as well as no win rate. So are you saying Misha a Mesmer main who is the top 1% of the 1% player base simply isn't good at Mesmer and that you are somehow better?

Mesmer has and always will be a newb stomper this is not news. I've always stated if 2 people with the same knowledge on equal grounds matchup  Mesmer will always be in the losing end with the current meta. 

sPvP solo que is hardly the place to evaluate a class because at the end of the day it has to do more on your team and how your team does not that Mesmer is fine. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[semak.7481]

23 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

This statement is ignorant, based on the MAT results Mesmer did not win a match at all nor was it represented nearly as much at all. Granted there are other classes that were also on the list on no representation as well as no win rate. So are you saying Misha a Mesmer main who is the top 1% of the 1% player base simply isn't good at Mesmer and that you are somehow better?

Mesmer has and always will be a newb stomper this is not news. I've always stated if 2 people with the same knowledge on equal grounds matchup  Mesmer will always be in the losing end with the current meta. 

sPvP solo que is hardly the place to evaluate a class because at the end of the day it has to do more on your team and how your team does not that Mesmer is fine. 

Besides the mAT.Its not hard to come across Misha's twitch, he is literally trying to survive there and when hes trying to kill something... well... the struggle is real. The herald disengage from the point half-dead, no infuse light, misha full hp, tries to kill herald,after short chase herald starts counterpressure and nearly kills misha and they part as misha's 2 teammates back him up(iirc), a class that is supposed to be extremely vulnerable to condis...doesnt die to condi mes. 

Misha when playing mesmer: "this class is dogsh*t, I hate this class, sometimes this class makes me wanna k** myself". 

Also "git gud" from a mouseclicker ... this forum is... something else

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Besides the mAT.Its not hard to come across Misha's twitch, he is literally trying to survive there and when hes trying to kill something... well... the struggle is real. The herald disengage from the point half-dead, no infuse light, misha full hp, tries to kill herald,after short chase herald starts counterpressure and nearly kills misha and they part as misha's 2 teammates back him up(iirc), a class that is supposed to be extremely vulnerable to condis...doesnt die to condi mes. 

Misha when playing mesmer: "this class is dogsh*t, I hate this class, sometimes this class makes me wanna k** myself". 

Also "git gud" from a mouseclicker ... this forum is... something else

Maybe Misha just needs to get gud. 

"The real troll is you, sorry. I have already proven my solo queue pvp experience with Power Mirage, the proclaimed weakest spec of the weakest class in pvp, can at the very least, secure a 56% win rate. The only thing stopping you guys from being good on Mesmer is yourself." - Waffles 

I guess the only thing stopping Misha from being good on Mesmer is Misha himself....I wish Waffles was at the MAT representing Mesmer to showcase how great it is.

[Puck.3697]

20 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

Bringing up a wintrader... good job. Tanking rating on a stream (with another account), dodging competition, Q'ing at nights and wintrading on top. (otherwise 1-2 losses would quickly brick his top1 against other candidates for the same top1). A wide known recipe to top 1, but how do u know, right

RIP was a wintrader? First I've heard of that? As far as I know those who were wintrading got mass banned and he wasn't apart of that. If I'm incorrect I'm incorrect though. 

To the rest I think even top players admit alot of what goes on with who gets top 1 is dodgey and not entirely ever done fairly. 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

On 5/27/2022 at 3:30 PM, semak.7481 said:

Every good mesmer player I know, all of them say the same, mesmer is utter garbage, just as irritated as I am, struggling with so much exerience on their back against bad facerollers playing OP meta class. Everyone suddenly became bad on their main with immensive experience obtainted through the years but obtained ability to be super good on meta classes and doomed to be bad at their own

If we are talking misha / shorts level then yes. As I stated. 

In MATs mesmers are in a bad place. I was never disagreeing with this. Lol. I said: mesmer isn't the reason players are stuck in gold. That's a very different statement to saying it can lead among rhe top 1% of competitive play. 

And to kitten you off??. 

Lmao you went mental because you think every build website is incorrect based on the fact side node mirage and virtuoso both use scepter in pvp and in your eyes that's incorrect. 

As I said in my first post. There's no need to prove there are major issues in mesmers kit, and even someone who's angry as shorts is at rhe state of mesmer even stated on stream chaos and domination are the reason things don't change. 

Those traitlines are extremely strong, currently it's janky af it don't work in high competitive. But it absolutely annihilates the average player base. 

Hence why. Mesmer needs a full rework. Because there are things that need to completely change to make room for major changes to make it viable in all situations and not specific ones. 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Lethion.8745]

I can't believe we are discussing if Power Mirage and Condi Virtuoso is viable. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Chaos is strong and needs a look at, its a bad player carry traitline anyway. 

Dom apart from power block/mental anguish and shattered concentration is a filler traitline. All the other majors are bad. 

[viquing.8254]

Chaos is only ok in condi build.

You lose so much damage by taking chaos in a direct damage build that it's not worth it.  (Even on condi you have to trade some output.)

And condi builds with chaos only shine for point holding in which there are way better classes to do that today.

And I'm not even talking about Chaotic interruption trait deletion "rework".

In regards to other traits line like inspi yeah it's strong 😛

 

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

36 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

Chaos is only ok in condi build.

You lose so much damage by taking chaos in a direct damage build that it's not worth it.  (Even on condi you have to trade some output.)

And condi builds with chaos only shine for point holding in which there are way better classes to do that today.

And I'm not even talking about Chaotic interruption trait deletion "rework".

In regards to other traits line like inspi yeah it's strong 😛

 

 

Indeed you lose a ton of damage by taking it, on power builds, but you gain sustain. I don't like it nor inspi, they're skilless kitten. 

Dom and duel on the other hand have only a couple of good traits, to spec for a major grandmaster you have to trait  bunch of useless stuff. 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

So the argument here is delete our last worthwhile trait line while leaving everything lackluster and subpar...amazing we are seeking self destruction without looking for solutions first.

And even in comparison with other class trait lines Chaos isnt even that good to begin with.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Chaos is nd always has been carry traitline it had no place in pvp, same as SA on thief for  example. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

11 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Chaos is nd always has been carry traitline it had no place in pvp, same as SA on thief for  example. 

Lol chaos traitline vs other class's traitlines...there are soo much other traitlines way stronger then our chaos...

[viquing.8254]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Chaos is nd always has been carry traitline it had no place in pvp, same as SA on thief for  example. 

Chaos always has been a sustain traitline as inspi (even if inspi is dead by the way.).

Aaaaaaand it's not a problem having 2 sustain traitlines over 8.

Just for the context, I play core domi/duel/illu since +1 year because all other choices gut too much our output and the said "sustain" from chaos didn't compensate the lack of pressure you didn't put if you take this.

Mean "ho I survive better but the opponent has freecast on me because I didn't pressure him at all" is real.

We already gut all of our diversity because of "skill" (which is relative to people by the way I already had this debate with Jazz.).

So as long as choosing a sustain traitline mean dropping something, you know, when you have to do a choice, it's not a problem IMO that it exists.

Now if you want a battle of what is "skill" for the next 5 pages and why you shouldn't use it as an argument I'm ready.

Edited June 1, 2022 by viquing.8254