Why are store prices so inconsistent?

[Labjax.2465]

Is there a history to this or is it just "cause they felt like it"? (maybe that's a silly question, it sure comes across like "cause they felt like it")

I'm familiar with games price gouging on microtransactions through in-game stores, but what continuously has me scratching my head is how inconsistent the pricing is for this game's store.

Some examples:

Synergetics Skimmer Skin is 1600 gems (one skin), while Synergetics Skyscale Skin is 2000 gems (one skin), and then there is a Canthan Noble Mounts Pack that is 1600 gems (3 skyscale skins), and some mount packs that are 2000 gems with 5 skins.

Then there's infinite tools. Some come with glyphs and some don't, but still cost 1000 gems each.

Some older armor sets are 800 gems for an entire set of armor, compared to the huge cost of sets broken up into pieces for 500 gems each, for a total of 3000 gems if you want the whole set. Then there are one-off armor skins that range from 500 to 150 for no apparent reason.

It just feels to me like they are throwing darts at a board. I understand some of the stuff is older and that may relate to price difference, but then like, with infinite tools for example, how hard would it be to add a glyph to the old ones that don't and send it to people who got that item previously. Stuff like that where one tool is an objectively worse deal at the same price for no apparent reason just looks so unprofessional. I'm not sure how else to describe it. My expectations for monetization are already low with how games like this make money and I still get surprised by the sheer audacity sometimes. And please don't come at me with stuff about how it's better than other games. I'm not doing a play by play comparison here, I'm just pointing something out that bothers me.

[Zera.9435]

Skyscale skins are more expensive because skyscale is used WAY more than skimmer. Canthan mount skins are still considered new and thus are at a premium compared to older skins. To my knowledge the tools that come with glyphs don't have a fancy appearance/animation to them. The older armor sets proved to be popular and ArenaNet realized they can make more money by selling new armors in parts.

I can guarantee you that they are NOT throwing darts on a board to determine pricing. They look at metrics, demand, and other pieces of data that they use to maximize profit for their product.

 

This is all completely normal.

[Labjax.2465]

1 hour ago, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

Skyscale skins are more expensive because skyscale is used WAY more than skimmer. Canthan mount skins are still considered new and thus are at a premium compared to older skins. To my knowledge the tools that come with glyphs don't have a fancy appearance/animation to them. The older armor sets proved to be popular and ArenaNet realized they can make more money by selling new armors in parts.

I can guarantee you that they are NOT throwing darts on a board to determine pricing. They look at metrics, demand, and other pieces of data that they use to maximize profit for their product.

 

This is all completely normal.

I don't know what you mean by "normal." 🤨

I can understand you're assuming some of it is as simple as cynical making more money, but um... there definitely are glyph tools that have fancy appearance/animation to them. You can check that without even buying them by clicking on one and seeing the preview. And I'm confused by your use of the phrase "at a premium" because the new Mount Pack in question is a better deal than some of the individual older skins for sale.

[DaFishBob.6518]

I think the inconsistencies come from changes in shop pricing policy that do not get reflected in older items. That is to say, I don't think Anet has ever gone back to older items and actually updated their prices. Tools are a good example of this, the reason there even are tools without glyphs is because they were made before tool glyphs ever existed. After tool glyphs became a thing, the tools that were cosmetic only never changed price even though they were unarguably a lesser value than tools with glyphs. Pricing of LS2 also follows this, the absolute lowest amount of content is made available by this and yet it is the highest cost in gems. And if any skins seem like their pricing is out of the line, there's no fixing that, just lessons learned hopefully for next time.

Edited June 15, 2022 by DaFishBob.6518

[Dante.1508]

7 hours ago, Zera Allimatti.2541 said:

Skyscale skins are more expensive because skyscale is used WAY more than skimmer. Canthan mount skins are still considered new and thus are at a premium compared to older skins. To my knowledge the tools that come with glyphs don't have a fancy appearance/animation to them. The older armor sets proved to be popular and ArenaNet realized they can make more money by selling new armors in parts.

I can guarantee you that they are NOT throwing darts on a board to determine pricing. They look at metrics, demand, and other pieces of data that they use to maximize profit for their product.

 

This is all completely normal.

It makes no sense what so ever.. Skyscale is more popular yet one skin is 2000gems yet another pack is 1600gems both skyscale..

 

Completely normal...😂

[Fan Didly Tastic.7169]

6 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I don't know what you mean by "normal." 🤨

I can understand you're assuming some of it is as simple as cynical making more money, but um... there definitely are glyph tools that have fancy appearance/animation to them. You can check that without even buying them by clicking on one and seeing the preview. And I'm confused by your use of the phrase "at a premium" because the new Mount Pack in question is a better deal than some of the individual older skins for sale.

Because money is a faith backed system no longer grounded in anything tangible and we are barreling towards a dystopic desert future of the mega wealthy few, so the value of anything is now quite arbitrary, and generally only fits in line with Western economic values/interests, which is infinite growth on a planet of finite resources.

Basically it's arbitrary, and likely somewhat based on what is popular. They're infinitely replicable graphics based on files you already installed on your computer, where the only change after purchase is a setting in your character file changing from a 0 to a 1.

Happy trails!

P.S. Some of this is in jest! Please don't get mad at me for trying to laugh.

[costepj.5120]

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

It makes no sense what so ever.. Skyscale is more popular yet one skin is 2000gems yet another pack is 1600gems both skyscale..

A Ferrari F8 Spider costs upwards of $300,000; a Fiat-500 maybe $20,000. Both Fiat cars ...

[SlayerXX.7138]

Mount skins: Are divided by being normal and high quality. Normal 1600. High quality 2000. For you example skyscale has unique animations that skimmer lacks. Something that muddles the water is what Anet considered high quality changes with time. Mount packs with 3 skins are normally just the same skin with minor differences and no special effect so the whole set goes for 1600.

Armor: People wanted parts of Outfits for a while and are willing to pay a premium for individual pieces so Anet provides. 

10 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Then there are one-off armor skins that range from 500 to 150 for no apparent reason.

If you talking about head armor skins, they are clearly different level of care and effort put into them. Sunglasses (150) is different from a normal head(around 300) to something with particle effects or something else does need extra work like minimize clipping on all characters(500).

Gathering tools: Watchnight Pick(useful glyph) has a boring animation. Vanilla unbreakable tools are actually cheaper then extra ones. The 1000 Gem price for the non vanilla gathering tools is a combinations of Animations + usefulness of the glyph. That's why the robots one you see often don't have glyphs, because they are cool enough to "justify" their price on their own. Some mid tier animations get bad glyphs and so on. Vanilla are cheaper then special one's.  All Special are the same price. There is a little power creeps going on and Anet doesn't seem to see a reason to adjust prices for the underpowered one.

Obviously in the skins department popularity does play role. The rather plain wedding attire is rather expansive. But overall pricing seems rather clear with small variations due to how liked some skins are. If someone can explain to me Build and traits loadout pricing that would be nice.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Mungrul.9358]

5 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Gathering tools: Watchnight Pick(useful glyph) has a boring animation. Vanilla unbreakable tools are actually cheaper then extra ones. The 1000 Gem price for the non vanilla gathering tools is a combinations of Animations + usefulness of the glyph. That's why the robots one you see often don't have glyphs, because they are cool enough to "justify" their price on their own. Some mid tier animations get bad glyphs and so on.

...but then, after a few years of playing, you'll be more interested in speed than cool animations, at which point you'll transmute your infinite tools to skins with the fastest animations that can also be animation-cancelled.

 

(For those interested, the fastest tool skins are currently: Consortium Harvesting Sickle, Unbound Magic Logging Pulse and Unbound Magic Mining Beam.)

[Cyninja.2954]

5 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Mount skins: Are divided by being normal and high quality. Normal 1600. High quality 2000. For you example skyscale has unique animations that skimmer lacks. Something that muddles the water is what Anet considered high quality changes with time. Mount packs with 3 skins are normally just the same skin with minor differences and no special effect so the whole set goes for 1600.

Armor: People wanted parts of Outfits for a while and are willing to pay a premium for individual pieces so Anet provides. 

If you talking about head armor skins, they are clearly different level of care and effort put into them. Sunglasses (150) is different from a normal head(around 300) to something with particle effects or something else does need extra work like minimize clipping on all characters(500).

Gathering tools: Watchnight Pick(useful glyph) has a boring animation. Vanilla unbreakable tools are actually cheaper then extra ones. The 1000 Gem price for the non vanilla gathering tools is a combinations of Animations + usefulness of the glyph. That's why the robots one you see often don't have glyphs, because they are cool enough to "justify" their price on their own. Some mid tier animations get bad glyphs and so on.

 

Obviously in the skins department popularity does play role. The rather plain wedding attire is rather expansive. But overall pricing seems rather clear with small variations due to how liked some skins are. If someone can explain to me Build and traits loadout pricing that would be nice.

 

This.

 

Tl;dr:

Skin/gemstore prices are dependent on when the item was introduced (aka ehicj monetization model was in place at tha ttime), how "fancy" it is (how many bells and whistles does it have, unique voice/sounds for example, animations, etc.) and to some extent how much work went into it (armor skins versus outfits for example).

 

Nothing arbitrary about it. Confusing to new players maybe but veterans who kept track of the gem store should have no issue with understanding the pricing.

[SlayerXX.7138]

3 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

...but then, after a few years of playing, you'll be more interested in speed than cool animations, at which point you'll transmute your infinite tools to skins with the fastest animations that can also be animation-cancelled.

That's like your opinion maaaaan. Your are more interested in that, not the whole player base. Also if you care about efficiency you may should run the numbers of how long you have to gather to make back the gems, how much extra value you get out of that halve second speed up and how that compares with Opportunity cost of gathering. Combined that with the fact that tools are not account wide, funny robot or funny cactus people seems like a reasonable choice for many people who aren't enjoying optimizing the game for optimizing sake.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Astralporing.1957]

46 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Gathering tools: Watchnight Pick(useful glyph) has a boring animation. Vanilla unbreakable tools are actually cheaper then extra ones. The 1000 Gem price for the non vanilla gathering tools is a combinations of Animations + usefulness of the glyph. That's why the robots one you see often don't have glyphs, because they are cool enough to "justify" their price on their own. Some mid tier animations get bad glyphs and so on.

Nothing to do with that. Simply put, all the tools with special animations have the same price, regardless of quality of animations. Glyphs and their usefulness are a non-factor here as well. The first tool with special effects (what now is the glyph) - Watchwork one - was priced exactly the same as all the earlier tools, that had no effects attached. All later tools were also priced the same - and inbetween Watchwork and Unbound Magic ones there were still tools released with no effect attached. Again, at the same price. 

When glyph idea got created, and all the new tools started getting some sort of glyphs, the price did not get adjusted. Old glyphless tools did not get a "balancing" pass - neither in the form of price reductions, nor through adding a glyph to them.

The only set of tools that are by default at lower price are the "vanilla" ones, which got their price reduction because they had no unique animation attached to them (they use the base set of animations).

Basically, the price is constant, but there has been a sort of "power creep" that happened to the tools being sold.

[SlayerXX.7138]

29 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nothing to do with that. Simply put, all the tools with special animations have the same price, regardless of quality of animations.

That is what i said.^^

36 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

When glyph idea got created, and all the new tools started getting some sort of glyphs, the price did not get adjusted. Old glyphless tools did not get a "balancing" pass - neither in the form of price reductions, nor through adding a glyph to them.

That seems to be mostly the case i will update my post. Got thrown of by the fact some new Gathering tools are excluded from that trend and the robots one are actually really old.

[Danikat.8537]

I think some of it will just be because they never change the price for older items (except for temporary discounts), even when they're removed and come back they're at the same price they were before, so that will create some discrepancies over time.

Other than that I suspect some of it is just down to the fact that prices for virtual cosmetic and convenience items are entirely arbitrary and maybe different people decide the prices each time, or they think something will be really popular so they can charge more for it and don't expect other items to be as appealing so they make them cheaper.
 

4 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

...but then, after a few years of playing, you'll be more interested in speed than cool animations, at which point you'll transmute your infinite tools to skins with the fastest animations that can also be animation-cancelled.

 

(For those interested, the fastest tool skins are currently: Consortium Harvesting Sickle, Unbound Magic Logging Pulse and Unbound Magic Mining Beam.)

I did the opposite. I bought the consortium sickle not long after it first came out (and the first mining pick and logging axe) and then years later swapped them out for the flutes because I prefer the animations. I know it's a bit slower but I'm not in that much of a rush and I'd rather have an animation I enjoy than one that was just ok because it was the only option.

I'd have done it sooner but 1,000 gems for just the animation (since I'm not really getting any benefit from a duplicate tool) is too expensive. But then they were discounted and I used gold for a lot of the price, so it wasn't as bad.

[Dante.1508]

6 hours ago, costepj.5120 said:

A Ferrari F8 Spider costs upwards of $300,000; a Fiat-500 maybe $20,000. Both Fiat cars ...

Yes i'd prefer the Fiat 500 its a way better car. Both are actually two totally different real life machines with different engineering and production values. Skyscale skins are both virtual pixels made by some computer jockey.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Cyninja.2954]

18 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yes i'd prefer the Fiat 500 its a way better car. Both are actually two totally different real life machines with different engineering and production values. Skyscale skins are both virtual pixels made by some computer jockey.

Yet both Skyscale skins achieve the exact same thing function wise: they change the appearance. Similar to how both cars at their core provide mobility.

Both cars might have diverging engineering backgrounds in some areas, but in others they draw the same benefits from the same engineering and development work. The main difference is one could argue in perceived value and prestige.

Not unlike some skins in this game, which with more elements like new animations or sound work become more complex to design and implement while at the same time drawing more appreciation from parts of the player base.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Vavume.8065]

16 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

It just feels to me like they are throwing darts at a board.

Agreed.

[Rogue.8235]

14 hours ago, Fan Didly Tastic.7169 said:

Because money is a faith backed system no longer grounded in anything tangible and we are barreling towards a dystopic desert future of the mega wealthy few, so the value of anything is now quite arbitrary, and generally only fits in line with Western economic values/interests, which is infinite growth on a planet of finite resources.

Basically it's arbitrary, and likely somewhat based on what is popular. They're infinitely replicable graphics based on files you already installed on your computer, where the only change after purchase is a setting in your character file changing from a 0 to a 1.

Happy trails!

P.S. Some of this is in jest! Please don't get mad at me for trying to laugh.

 

Umm....  okay, yeah, no notes. 😜    Jest or not, this kinda (comically) sums it up since the South Sea Bubble of 1720.  Currencies have only become more abstract since then (although the gold standard didn't really provide much stability).  A great example is the foreign currency exchange speculation that resulted in the 2008 economic crisis.  Actually, not a crisis, more like an apocalyptic meltdown of Mephistophelian proportions that would make the devil himself cringe with anguish.

 

Anyways, back to topic.  OP, keep in mind that some of your examples have different levels of background work put in.  Creating new textures is less work-intensive than creating an entirely new mesh with new textures.  There is some level of cost-based pricing in the gem store that is apparent.  Other than that, it's a mixture of what the marketing department strategizes and changing pricing strategies over time without retroactive updates.

That would be my (literal) educated guess.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Rogue.8235
added smiley to indicate the non-seriousness

[robertthebard.8150]

9 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

That's like your opinion maaaaan. Your are more interested in that, not the whole player base. Also if you care about efficiency you may should run the numbers of how long you have to gather to make back the gems, how much extra value you get out of that halve second speed up and how that compares with Opportunity cost of gathering. Combined that with the fact that tools are not account wide, funny robot or funny cactus people seems like a reasonable choice for many people who aren't enjoying optimizing the game for optimizing sake.

3 shared slots in my inventory, and the tools are account wide...

[Khisanth.2948]

1) things are priced as high as people are willing to buy them

2) always speak with your wallet

3) there people willing to spend money on frivolous things, unfortunately you like the same thing they do

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

3 shared slots in my inventory, and the tools are account wide...

They are account bound not account wide. You have to manually switch them is what I meant. Which cost time. Not much. But the Person I was replying to did value that 1 second faster animation soooo you have to do a lot of gathering to get that minute back:). If you like the convenience or like optimizing stuff for its own sake fine. I do that too. The idea of "unlimited" profit is nice.

On a Side note: I just find it funny when someone states optimizing gathering is the clear choice when gathering itself is so unprofitable. You could have a map full of quartz nodes which are one of the more profitable Mining nodes, a Unbreakable Watch knight pick and fast skin but if the travel time between nodes is longer then 1 sec it better to just do echo wild meta.
To make back the extra 300 gems from Unbreakable Watch knight, instead of the vanilla on, you have to gather 7 and a halve hours. Not go out an gather 7+ hours, actually let that animation roll for that amount of time. That are 5250 nodes you have to gather to go even. And as gathering isn't all that profitable that 5k nodes take ages to gather if you want to play "optimal".

[branwen.1049]

i do think a lot of the older stuff is just a case of them not going back to adjust the prices, but for things like the Canthan skyscales (3 mounts for 1,600 compared to a single skin at 2,000) that can easily be explained by the Canthan skyscales being  the "same" skin but with minor changes made between them -- splitting them into three separate skins that all cost 1,600 / 2,000 gems would cause a riot of untold proportions (and for good reason!) so it's the more sound option to just bundle them as a cheaper option.

[Labjax.2465]

13 hours ago, Fan Didly Tastic.7169 said:

Because money is a faith backed system no longer grounded in anything tangible and we are barreling towards a dystopic desert future of the mega wealthy few, so the value of anything is now quite arbitrary, and generally only fits in line with Western economic values/interests, which is infinite growth on a planet of finite resources.

Basically it's arbitrary, and likely somewhat based on what is popular. They're infinitely replicable graphics based on files you already installed on your computer, where the only change after purchase is a setting in your character file changing from a 0 to a 1.

Happy trails!

P.S. Some of this is in jest! Please don't get mad at me for trying to laugh.

No anger here (ok, maybe some at the system). I try not to talk this stuff on forums like these cause I figure it'll just get deleted for being the p word, but suffice it to say, I could see myself writing something similar to what you wrote here. Not that I can claim I'd word it as well as you did.

[Freya.9075]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

They are account bound not account wide. You have to manually switch them is what I meant. Which cost time. Not much. But the Person I was replying to did value that 1 second faster animation soooo you have to do a lot of gathering to get that minute back:). If you like the convenience or like optimizing stuff for its own sake fine. I do that too. The idea of "unlimited" profit is nice.

The trick is to have ingame tools on all characters and one set of infinite tools. When you change character you open inventory and click all the tools in shared inventory and change character. Takes a couple seconds to change tools and they are ready for the next character. Not a minute 

[SlayerXX.7138]

27 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

The trick is to have ingame tools on all characters and one set of infinite tools. When you change character you open inventory and click all the tools in shared inventory and change character. Takes a couple seconds to change tools and they are ready for the next character. Not a minute

Oh yeah that honestly looks like a nice, convenient setup. How long to you need to gather for these 3 shared slots to be efficient?:)