why are people hating on the patch?

[Stalima.5490]

They seem to be doing alot of good things in the patch, like updating the engineer rifle into a might monster and making aim assisted rocket actually useful again.

 

I don't know what people are complaining about.

[Hotride.2187]

 

[Stalima.5490]

I don't really think that thread makes sense, after all they claim the rifle changes were small when they are in fact huge, the auto attack alone drastically changes the entire potential of the weapon nevermind it's potential for might gameplay and what sounds like a smoother rocket jump.

I believe that thread is just someone ranting about some of the silly things in the game being simplified into the existing boon system as they should have been.

[mindcircus.1506]

9 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

They seem to be doing alot of good things in the patch, like updating the engineer rifle into a might monster and making aim assisted rocket actually useful again.

 

I don't know what people are complaining about.

If you are a rifle enjoying Engi it's a pretty sweet patch indeed.
So that should realistically make about 8 people happy.

[Veprovina.4876]

They're not hating on the patch, the patch is just "meh". They're mostly upset because the leaks from discord show that this is what we can hope for, class favoritism, ignoring player feedback and working on only the classes devs play, and those same devs had really "nice" things to say about the players. Then Arenanet sided with them, legitimizing that behaviour, and played the victim, blaming the players.

 

[Stalima.5490]

1 minute ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

They're not hating on the patch, the patch is just "meh". They're mostly upset because the leaks from discord show that this is what we can hope for, class favoritism, ignoring player feedback and working on only the classes devs play, and those same devs had really "nice" things to say about the players. Then Arenanet sided with them, legitimizing that behaviour, and played the victim, blaming the players.

well yeah, that's why the players are there, to tell them what the classes the devs don't play need.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 minute ago, Stalima.5490 said:

well yeah, that's why the players are there, to tell them what the classes the devs don't play need.

Yes, and every bit of that feedback was ignored completely.

The devs just wikipedia'd the classes they don't play and made changes based on a wikipedia search.

In any other company, those people would be fired, and the company issuing apologies to the community, but Anet instead lowkey said this behaviour is ok, and that the community is bad.

Well, the community is angry now.

[Stalima.5490]

Just now, Veprovina.4876 said:

Yes, and every bit of that feedback was ignored completely.

The devs just wikipedia'd the classes they don't play and made changes based on a wikipedia search.

In any other company, those people would be fired, and the company issuing apologies to the community, but Anet instead lowkey said this behaviour is ok, and that the community is bad.

Well, the community is angry now.

well that's not true for other games, just look at WoW and how garbage the frost death knight development has been over the past 10 years, where removing one passive would fix the whole class yet is somehow still in that game to this day after being universally hated by everyone who actually played the class.

 

But anyway, people have wanted a rifle update for a while, and guess what we are getting? a rifle update. How is that ignoring the playerbase?

[Fueki.4753]

Warrior has been gutted out of viability for organized group play. We wanted to have more viable play styles other than banner slaves. And instead of making things better, like they almost always do for Guardian, Arenanet murdered the only viable play style we had.

Warrior mains have all the reasons to be angry, even without the Discord discord. The program's name is oddly fitting for this situation.

Other than this specific mistreatment of Warrior, there's general anger about the favouritism that couldn't be more obvious.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Stalima.5490]

2 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Oh you're one of the people doing damage control for Anet now?

 

Makes sense. Deflection to other games, cherry picking one thing that's good about the patch and completely ignoring the behaviour towards the player (sweeping it under the rug).

 

You are now blocked, good bye, i don't have time to argue with spin doctors.

but you're the one who brought up other games and devs ignoring everyone but the classes they played... what is even going on anymore.

[Hotride.2187]

22 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

If you are a rifle enjoying Engi it's a pretty sweet patch indeed.
So that should realistically make about 8 people happy.

Well if you are making 8 people happy at a time... like what, 100 patches and all spvp players are happy? 4 patches per year (or so the claim was), 25 years? Sounds good to me, right?

Not implying that you got rifle engis in conquest but you know what I mean.

[Hotride.2187]

28 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I believe that thread is just someone ranting about some of the silly things in the game being simplified into the existing boon system as they should have been.

Thats a long way of saying you didn't read the entire comment.

[voltaicbore.8012]

3 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

but you're the one who brought up other games and devs ignoring everyone but the classes they played... what is even going on anymore.

There was much, more to this patch than your treasured engi rifle updates.

Rangers, for years, wanted to be able to run power builds in group content at a level that didn't bring the whole team down. We finally got that with soulbeast. This patch gutted a huge source of that power dps by an absolutely huge amount, without giving anything back for it. From a ranger main's perspective, honestly I don't mind if ANet's direction is to finally combat powercreep and bring everyone down - that would indeed call for dps nerfs without anything to compensate for it.

What rubs rangers the wrong way is that ranger got this treatment, but the other classes that heavily outperform ranger in almost every respect actually got some buffs. Clearly there is either (1) no unified direction the studio wants in terms of class performance, or (2) blatant class favoritism. The Discord leaks seem to confirm (2) quite directly.

What happened to rangers actually seems mild compared to the continued decline of warriors, further cemented by this patch. Perhaps the most insulting thing is that the supposed "hey classes are getting fury now to make up for the loss of unique crit buffs" was placed into Arms, which is widely (and correctly) seen as the condi traitline. What is a power warrior to do? Continue suffering, and living with the blatant messaging that their style of gameplay simply isn't valued by the studio.

Ele got similarly shafted in the "we're giving away more crit to make up for what we took away" department. Their bonus crit is limited to being attuned to air. In some sense it's marginally better than the warrior treatment, as air attunement is ele's pure power dps mode, but it's extremely limiting to have only. Catalyst got some pretty heavy handed nerfs solely on the basis of the balance team seeing that a group of top sweaty elite gamers were able to pull off some impressive numbers with it. Everyone interested in dps catalyst who is not such an elite player now suffers heavily.

But these sorts of specific nerfs - we've seen them before, we've lived through them before - aren't the only thing that came out with this patch. The real kicker is the added effect of the Discord leaks. While the particular dev in question actually had some good ideas, it was apparent that they didn't have the time/other wherewithal to properly address many of the skills they were given the responsibility of working on. This is most likely a management issue - instead of setting up a team and making sure that devs's responsibilities lined up with their competencies, they asked a dev to balance skills they actually had to look up on the wiki. The player-made wiki. This is a shocking degree of mismanagement.

To make matters worse, those same leaks indicated that the balance team clearly plays favorites. What used to be a widespread player joke ("ANet's favored children are guardian, necro, and the newly adopted mechanist") turned out to be way, way more true than any of us realized.

Finally, there have been many comments that this patch was merely the straw that broke the camel's back. This is probably an accurate assessment of the situation. We've lived with imbalance, class favoritism from the devs, and game-direction-whiplash for so long; even if this patch was (arguably) not that different from other poorly received ones, it just tipped a lot of normally tolerant players over the edge.

[Stalima.5490]

39 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

There was much, more to this patch than your treasured engi rifle updates.

Rangers, for years, wanted to be able to run power builds in group content at a level that didn't bring the whole team down. We finally got that with soulbeast. This patch gutted a huge source of that power dps by an absolutely huge amount, without giving anything back for it. From a ranger main's perspective, honestly I don't mind if ANet's direction is to finally combat powercreep and bring everyone down - that would indeed call for dps nerfs without anything to compensate for it.

What rubs rangers the wrong way is that ranger got this treatment, but the other classes that heavily outperform ranger in almost every respect actually got some buffs. Clearly there is either (1) no unified direction the studio wants in terms of class performance, or (2) blatant class favoritism. The Discord leaks seem to confirm (2) quite directly.

What happened to rangers actually seems mild compared to the continued decline of warriors, further cemented by this patch. Perhaps the most insulting thing is that the supposed "hey classes are getting fury now to make up for the loss of unique crit buffs" was placed into Arms, which is widely (and correctly) seen as the condi traitline. What is a power warrior to do? Continue suffering, and living with the blatant messaging that their style of gameplay simply isn't valued by the studio.

Ele got similarly shafted in the "we're giving away more crit to make up for what we took away" department. Their bonus crit is limited to being attuned to air. In some sense it's marginally better than the warrior treatment, as air attunement is ele's pure power dps mode, but it's extremely limiting to have only. Catalyst got some pretty heavy handed nerfs solely on the basis of the balance team seeing that a group of top sweaty elite gamers were able to pull off some impressive numbers with it. Everyone interested in dps catalyst who is not such an elite player now suffers heavily.

But these sorts of specific nerfs - we've seen them before, we've lived through them before - aren't the only thing that came out with this patch. The real kicker is the added effect of the Discord leaks. While the particular dev in question actually had some good ideas, it was apparent that they didn't have the time/other wherewithal to properly address many of the skills they were given the responsibility of working on. This is most likely a management issue - instead of setting up a team and making sure that devs's responsibilities lined up with their competencies, they asked a dev to balance skills they actually had to look up on the wiki. The player-made wiki. This is a shocking degree of mismanagement.

To make matters worse, those same leaks indicated that the balance team clearly plays favorites. What used to be a widespread player joke ("ANet's favored children are guardian, necro, and the newly adopted mechanist") turned out to be way, way more true than any of us realized.

Finally, there have been many comments that this patch was merely the straw that broke the camel's back. This is probably an accurate assessment of the situation. We've lived with imbalance, class favoritism from the devs, and game-direction-whiplash for so long; even if this patch was (arguably) not that different from other poorly received ones, it just tipped a lot of normally tolerant players over the edge.

oh come on, it's not that bad, just use moa stance

[Huffinator.4598]

I used to main Ele for several years before I just eventually got tired of all the nerfs inflicted upon the class. Several years ago, you could play a wide variety of builds in general PvE, fractals, WvW, dungeons, etc. and be very "competitive" no matter your play style. But as the years gone on, one by one the skills/traits kept getting nerfed or downright gutted into the ground. Now sure unless ANet completely took the skills away, you could still play however you prefer, but you basically would only be causing grief for yourself and especially others in group content when other professions can just simply perform way better with much less effort involved.

 

Seeing how easy other professions can dish out damage without much effort really sealed the deal for me. I switched to a Soulbeast Ranger, geared her up completely (Full ascended everything, although I do have a couple of legendary weapons at my disposal) and now the Soulbeast nerf has officially arrived into PvE content. 😞 I do WvW from time to time, so I already know the huge damage difference there is before the patch even lands. Congrats ANet, you are taking away class viability in "harder" content and are basically making it so that you have to play guardian, Mechanist, etc. for raids/strikes/fractals and other future "challenging" content you guys may make.

 

Okay, so you don't really have to play those classes, but good luck finding a pug group that welcomes all if you want to try out a raid/strike/etc. I really hate how raids/strikes are build specific and these so called "balance" patches are only making the issue worse.

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

This is most likely a management issue - instead of setting up a team and making sure that devs's responsibilities lined up with their competencies, they asked a dev to balance skills they actually had to look up on the wiki. The player-made wiki. This is a shocking degree of mismanagement.

I would it call being cheap, but I Totally agree with the rest of the post. Adding to that PvP changes feel like shots in the dark slightly guide by 5 people in the hidden discord who may have their own agenda.

[Psyches.9487]

The Balance patch really didn't change the meta at all, if anything it just made it set in stone. Machinist and Firebrand continue to basically do everything. Warrior's changes with banners don't make any sense in a raid setting where you are required to move, and we've actually lost a lot of class identity getting rid of unique class buffs. It's not like the game is broken but it sucks that some people may not be able to play the classes they want because other jobs simply do it better/bring much more to a group.

[Mik.3401]

I think people got angry because of the promises Anet made before. They did state they want to focus on balance and making more builds and classes playable.  

… and at the end they did almost none of that after long months of wait. The changes they introduced are misguided almost all times, they do not understand their own game. It’s like, what is the balance team working on? Their boss should review their timesheets.

At the end we can just log out and forget about the game forever, but it’s a shame they are killing their own product which used to be good

Edited June 28, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Susy.7529]

They kittening destroyed warrior!

[Exciton.8942]

Because rifle change is actually the only good change of the patch, maybe thief SA change(I don't know). All other changes are either mediocre or poor.

[Mesket.5728]

3 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I don't really think that thread makes sense, after all they claim the rifle changes were small when they are in fact huge, the auto attack alone drastically changes the entire potential of the weapon nevermind it's potential for might gameplay and what sounds like a smoother rocket jump.

I believe that thread is just someone ranting about some of the silly things in the game being simplified into the existing boon system as they should have been.

wtf cares about engie rifle

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

2 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

If you are a rifle enjoying Engi it's a pretty sweet patch indeed.
So that should realistically make about 8 people happy.

Here's the thing, I've been a rifle engie on my main engie almost since the beginning of the game, and I honestly *hate* how mindless it is right now.  Furthermore, I can already hear the complaints coming from the competitive modes about this change to engie rifle.  Its like Anet said, "hey we know how mindless bomb kit can be, so how can we save a few steps?  Oh I know, let's just let rifle do the same thing and save the player swapping to kits."  And on a mech set up it's even sillier.

[Azrius.6085]

3 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

They seem to be doing alot of good things in the patch, like updating the engineer rifle into a might monster and making aim assisted rocket actually useful again.

 

I don't know what people are complaining about.

Try playing Warrior. Banners specifically. Then compare their current state to how they were ten years ago.

 

That's at least one reason. They spent months promising they'd fix the issues with Warrior's banners, but instead they made one of the most baffling, poorly thought-out changes I've ever seen. 

I don't know what this horror show is, but it's not a balance patch. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Azrius.6085

[Belisaria.8136]

There never has been and never will be a lauded balance patch. Happy and neutral people, the vast majority, will just go enjoy the game. Upset people will be the only ones to come post on the forums and be loud in chat. I'm over the moon at the simplified squad building and the increased boon class options this patch brings, and many others are very happy with other changes. You just aren't really gonna see them here cause they're off playing the game, not keyboard smashing.

[Sugar.1946]

This is the big balance patch we have been waiting for 2 years and it very much dose not live up to the time waited.

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