Banners: August 2nd

[Xaylin.1860]

38 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

is that the first functionality split in gw2 pve/pvp history?

Nope. They just did that with Catalyst Jade Sphere, for example. But it is a recent development.

Still, I wouldn't get too excited. I'm no programmer but I assume that boon duration of Quickness is simply set to 0s in competitive modes. Meaning, it is not a split in functionality. However, if this is how it works, it could also work for conditions and at least soft CC.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

40 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

wait wait wait wait.

 

hold on

 

 

is that the first functionality split in gw2 pve/pvp history?

I think the heal mantra from Firebrand was before that. 

 

[Rysdude.3824]

I was thinking of making a warrior. Keep it coming!

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

wait wait wait wait.

 

hold on

 

 

is that the first functionality split in gw2 pve/pvp history?

Scourge have fonctionality split since a long time.

[anbujackson.9564]

4 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Overall, I think it actually sounds pretty good. A lot of it will hinge on what we don't know yet though (quick duration, etc.).

I spent already too much time responding in the main thread so I'll just link my response here.

 

About your calculation:

The banner trait wont work with any boon you grant when deploying a banner, including quickness probably (judging by their explanation). The additional 50% will only be applied to your pulsing boons. Correct me if I am wrong. So you are stuck with 3 seconds (or however much they decided on).

Your proposals of 8 seconds quickness per banner with 30sec CD is way overtuned. It would be kind of nice for berserker support though.

[Hotride.2187]

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool there will be party stab now

lets hope its not 2 seconds

[Dadnir.5038]

2 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool there will be party stab now

lets hope its not 2 seconds

If the main competition didn't give 5 stacks for 6s, 2s of stab would already be good.

[Hotride.2187]

1 minute ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

If the main competition didn't give 5 stacks for 6s, 2s of stab would already be good.

You mean if the main competition didn't have: stand your ground (you mentioned that), hallowed ground (longer, pulsing, less stacks) mantra of liberation (charges, also stunbreak)

But comparing stability output to a firebrand is just pointless. What else can even give party stab? Engi can a bit, I think stance share sb can also give a little?

[firedragon.8953]

38 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

The banner trait wont work with any boon you grant when deploying a banner, including quickness probably (judging by their explanation). The additional 50% will only be applied to your pulsing boons. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, with their original wording you'd be right. That's why I posted this in there.

• Doubled Standards: Grants quickness on banner drop, increases quickness provided by Banner of Tactics (in PvE) and all pulsing banner effects by 50%.

Why does Banner of Tactics provide quickness (in PvE only) anyway, unless it serves some greater purpose. What'd be the point?

38 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Your proposals of 8 seconds quickness per banner with 30sec CD is way overtuned. It would be kind of nice for berserker support though.

Yeah, you may be right. But if you needed 3 banners for 28s on 30s CD (this includes the idea of 50% increase also applying to banner of Tactics's quick) , even if you were in full berserkers/vipers gear the decrease in DPS with a strength/discipline/berserker power berserker or an tactics/discipline/berserker condi berserker seems like it'd drop off quite a bit with no berserk extending utilities or signets, no? Every 30 seconds you have to interrupt your rotation to drop banners as well. In all reality, I'd probably prefer to take some Diviner's (Ritualist's) gear so I could carry 2 banners with me and have a flexible utility slot. This also could possibly allow for a Spellbreaker shout-warrior bringing only a Tactics banner and supplementing with warhorn, some sigls, etc. so we could actually bring shouts on our bar. I can't imagine Bladesworn building for quickness either, they may take one banner for group stab, aegis, or something...but I think that's about it.

Edited July 28, 2022 by firedragon.8953

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Getting a boon is insignificant when you don't have multiple sources. 

Having an ability that shares like some stab for a couple of secinds does not mean warrior will be dropping Shake it Off or FGJ any time soon. 

Let alone use banners like wells, which is quite anti-warrior if you ask me. 

But flavor is whatever, functionality still bad. 

Facet banners are the only way. Full stop. 

[Myror.7521]

So am i right rhat Double standart means quickness thoug all banners? If yes then Banner of tactics would have a Double Source to gain quickness in pve (the banner itself and the Double standart thing xd

[DKRathalos.9625]

This banner change is... confusing as in not the effect but more like on paper like this seems not bad however why I feel it will do bad in the actual field/fight.

Obviously this won't be used in PvE, WvW wise... I dunno I am pessimistic about it.

[firedragon.8953]

28 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

So am i right rhat Double standart means quickness thoug all banners? If yes then Banner of tactics would have a Double Source to gain quickness in pve (the banner itself and the Double standart thing xd

Actually, that makes tons of sense! You’ve answered a mystery to me, even though it was staring at me in the face! xD

You get the base Double Standard quickness and the inherent Tactics Banner quick! Not sure if the time is actually doubled though since we don’t know what the duration or quick will be on the banner and what it will be with the Double Standards trait. Could be 3s banner and 6 sec Double Standards quick or something for a total of 9s quick when dropping Banner of Tactics . 🤔

Edited July 28, 2022 by firedragon.8953

[Gorem.8104]

They changed banners but then also nerfed its radius. 

and that's all Warriors are getting. 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... 

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

You mean if the main competition didn't have: stand your ground (you mentioned that), hallowed ground (longer, pulsing, less stacks) mantra of liberation (charges, also stunbreak)

But comparing stability output to a firebrand is just pointless. What else can even give party stab? Engi can a bit, I think stance share sb can also give a little?

Mesmer's mantra of concentration, elementalist with rock solid, harbinger with it's elite skill and revenant with inspiring reinforcement.

But yeah I was comparing it to "stand your ground!".

[Kodama.6453]

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

wait wait wait wait.

 

hold on

 

 

is that the first functionality split in gw2 pve/pvp history?

Far from it.

There have been several functionality splits already. One example to my mind is that a mech has a locked breakbar in PvE, while having absolutely no breakbar in PvP.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

With Phalanx Strength  Banner of Strength is now a 5k Heal on a 30CD in WvW. (Best case scenario ofc.)

In Cele gear its 5.6k.

 Pretty sure thats why it doesnt has higher stack numbers.  Imagine 5 Stacks of might. That would be 12500 Healing just passivly.

 

3 stacks is all I think it needs. That healing is over 15s and only in the summoned area, with sufficient allies in the same area. That is a lot of hurdles to jump though for that kind of healing if that is what someone is going for.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

3 stacks is all I think it needs. That healing is over 15s and only in the summoned area, with sufficient allies in the same area. That is a lot of hurdles to jump though for that kind of healing if that is what someone is going for.

Does a Banner despawn if you run to far away from it? 

Would be funny if you could just plant it in a Wvw tower next to npcs/Afk players or something while being outside fighting and healing. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

This banner change is... confusing as in not the effect but more like on paper like this seems not bad however why I feel it will do bad in the actual field/fight.

Obviously this won't be used in PvE, WvW wise... I dunno I am pessimistic about it.

They will cast fast now too DKR. At lot depends on the unpublished numbers. It very well could still end up bad if they lowballed everything. If a traited Tactics banner gives high enough uptime on it's own then I can indeed see it getting used in PvE.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Does a Banner despawn if you run to far away from it? 

Would be funny if you could just plant it in a Wvw tower next to npcs/Afk players or something while being outside fighting and healing. 

It has a 15s duration, it would stay there. So, yes you could do something like that and get healing from Mending Might. Drop it on the lord, glide down to where people are sieging, and fight while getting healing from the banner.

[Lighter.5631]

looks interesting tho still useless

defense need to give stab on top of aegis and barrier to matter for a 30 seconds cooldown.

and tactic need to give quickness by default for non pve modes on top of super speed.

why they remove quickness for wvw and pvp is beyond me

 

immoveable 360 radius AoE basically means nothing.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

looks interesting tho still useless

defense need to give stab on top of aegis and barrier to matter for a 30 seconds cooldown.

and tactic need to give quickness by default for non pve modes on top of super speed.

why they remove quickness for wvw and pvp is beyond me

Might be because they're overloading the quickness on summon in PvE for bar compression there, but don't want that in WvW/PvP. They could just make it a small duration there though rather than split the functionality. Defense needs at least a stunbreak on it, though shifting the stab to there wouldn't be bad either.

8 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

immoveable 360 radius AoE basically means nothing.

As I stated elsewhere, it looks like they are shifting the main means of support onto the summon itself rather than the lingering boon field. The Tactics banner will still be good for countering floor vomit. 

[Lighter.5631]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Might be because they're overloading the quickness on summon in PvE for bar compression there, but don't want that in WvW/PvP. They could just make it a small duration there though rather than split the functionality. Defense needs at least a stunbreak on it, though shifting the stab to there wouldn't be bad either.

As I stated elsewhere, it looks like they are shifting the main means of support onto the summon itself rather than the lingering boon field. The Tactics banner will still be good for countering floor vomit. 

 

yea i know they shifted the focus to summoning, but then again the summoning effects arent so great.

if you look at the skill as a one time cast 30 second cooldown skill.

it's lacking.

a skill that grant aegis and barrier every 30 seconds.

is rather weak

 

my only hope is on how much damage the banners do. because this is the only thing is not listed in numbers. the rest are really lackluster.

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Lighter.5631

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

 

yea i know they shifted the focus to summoning, but then again the summoning effects arent so great.

if you look at the skill as a one time cast 30 second cooldown skill.

it's lacking.

a skill that grant aegis and barrier every 30 seconds.

is rather weak

Depends on the barrier numbers in the end.

5 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

my only hope is on how much damage the banners do. because this is the only thing is not listed in numbers. the rest are really lackluster.

 

Yeah, that is a worry of mine as well. If they are 1k on a crit then /meh. If they are closer to 2k or 2.5k on a crit then I can see them being useful to supplement damage. Obviously I'd like to see number higher than that, but I think 2k is the minimum for being useful.

The amount of bleed on Discipline is also concern.  Will it be 1 stack or several? For a 30s CD they could easily do 8 stacks of bleed for 6s.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

7 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

a skill that grant aegis and barrier every 30 seconds.

With the revision, it will be Barrier + Aegis + Pulsing Regen. In essence it'll function like a soft "extra heal skill".

• Aegis - Use the skill prior to telegraphed big attacks (where possible) to cancel out that single attack.
• Barrier - Cover healthbar and allows Regen to do its work
• Regen - Additional healing (Regen needs to be reworked.... personally it feels less valuable than even swiftness but it's something)

Mending Might (Tactics), Might Makes Right (Strength), Banner of Strength, and Banner of Defense will be a decent self-sustain while retaining an emergency button.

I would recommend to ANet that Mending Might be revamped to also provide Healing (or Barrier) to allies upon Warrior applying Might to them.

Soldier's Comfort + Empower Allies + Phalanx + Banner of Strength would easily become a healing build (coefficient dependent) and would provide Warriors with another toolbox for a support build that is:

• thematic ("stay in the fight")
• synergizes with the traitline but still dependent on other build components (Strength Traits, "For Great Justice" shout, etc),

keeps Tactics line from becoming overpowered; self-sustain still is not as good as Strength, but leans the Tactics line further into the "commander of armies" design