Banners: August 2nd

[anbujackson.9564]

 

28 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, I have no doubt there ... we will be running Diviners to get as much uptime as possible. The question is if you can get 100% with banners alone, a combo of banners, WH and Martial Cadence or ... worst case, not at all. 

Well if they didnt step away from their original intent that banners shouldnt fill quickness alone... then we sure as hell need at least tactics. Judging by the low cooldown it will probably be 3 seconds MAX. Probably less. You would need 4 seconds per banner with 100% boon duration to cover quickness with 3 banners which is... meh. And your 50% boon increase isnt working on the boons you grant when deploying anymore.

I agree though. I cant see this being viable compared to other supports. Your tactics traitline is still a mess.

Edited July 27, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[cryorion.9532]

First impression is pretty good. I wonder how it will turn out in game, hopefully banners won't feel clunky and annoying to use (if that 0.2 sec cast time reduction is enough).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

First impression is pretty good. I wonder how it will turn out in game, hopefully banners won't feel clunky and annoying to use (if that 0.2 sec cast time reduction is enough).

Yeah, a lot depends on the numbers that they did not preview. Could still end up as a 🐶💩  patch if the numbers are too low.

Like 1s of superspeed, 1 stack of stability for 1s on tactics.

Or 1s of aegis and 800 barrier on defense.

Strength doing 24 damage.

Discipline doing 1 stack of bleed for 6s.

 

CMC doing what he does best means that is what we'll probably get in competitive though.

 

PvE depends entirely on Double Standards not getting shafted.

[Arewn.2368]

Pretty decent changes.

Banners functioning as Wells is what I said they'd do months ago. So it's in line with my initial expectation of type and scope for the banner rework.

Not sure if it's strong enough as a support option in the current meta though. Not without a complimentary support weapon or espec mechanic at least.

Will probably work as quickness dps? Damage remains to be seen, but is probably going to be low.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

Double Standards: instead of doubling the boon duration it should be changed to provide the "on cast" effect both when it was cast and when it disappears, in addition to the quickness they currently have.

Depending on the values of the "on cast" effect (and no, 2 stacks of bleed for 3s is not enough for the Discipline one....), this would provide Warriors with several things:

1. 80% uptime of quickness by sacrificing 2 skills and some stats. It's not as good as what other professions get, but we don't want to be made OP--just competitive. The slight stat dip should be mandatory if someone wants to cover high duration of a specific boon; and no one should be able to cover Alacrity or Quickness 100% by themselves.
2. Damage & CC or Support (Sability, Superspead, Barrier, Aegis, Quickness) that occur once every 15s (with Double Standards) would be great. While Warrior is sacrificing some stats (Signets) or damage (Adrenaline Generation), having access to a skill that allows offensive support is incredibly decent.
3. Two blast finishers via Strength/Discipline would go very well with a Tactics-Burnzerker build, as the Might generation would be great for sustain and with a Longbow or Torch, Berserkers bring fire fields with them wherever they go.
4. Plays towards the concept of "support through offense" more readily which seems to be their thought with regards to Warriors, rather than "overwhelm them in magic".

Given that most of Warrior's utilities come from their Utility skills, it's not unreasonable to have the "on cast" effect occur twice, as it still requires a traitline and at least 66% commitment via utilities to make it cover 100% uptime. 

• Without Alacrity, a Warrior with max boon duration (+100%) would be able to maintain 80% quickness by taking 2 banners and cover 100% quickness via 3 banners. 
• With Alacrity, a Warrior with max boon duration (+100%) would be able to maintain 80% quickness by taking 1 banner, and cover 100% quickness via 2 banners.

[ThunderX.6591]

I posted this on the main topic about the patch, and come here to read about it in the warrior forum, (to see what the thought are) but i don't know if i am really missing something big from the patch note or the people who play now warrior as a class are so desperate to see only the nice changes and pass on the "nerf" that some change really are.

 

Talking about the banner and the nerf we get with the change. (math is simple)

•             Recharge reduced from 60s to 30s (except Battle Standard)
• Nice change, faster recharge = faster moving banner to go with the party (battle standard is powerfull, i think will be ok if stay at 120 sec).
•             Animation changed; cast time reduced by 0.2s (except Battle Standard)
• Nice this one too, faster is better here.
•             Light combo field radius reduced from 600 to 360. Combo field duration reduced to from 5s to 3s.
• Range nerfed is a bad thing, is like you are negating the 2 previous change with this.
•             Pulsing boon radius reduced to 360.
• As sayd, reducing the radius is a nerf and don't help at all the previous nice change to banners considering people tend to move around and 600 is barely enough to cover basic movements during a fight.
•             Once dropped, banners last for 15 seconds, and can no longer be picked up.
• What is this incredible mega nerf to the banner? Now in game they last 60 secs and recharge in 60 secs (Battle Standard is 120 secs recharge), and can be even moved around AND have a radius of 600, BUT with this 02/08 patch, they last for 15 secs only and with less radius? (even battle standard have only 15 secs duration from the actual 60 secs?) so we have 15 secs without boons now? (Battle Standard have like 105 secs with no boons now instead of only 60) Is this a bad joke, a bad nightmare or i am missing something really big and good from these preview of the patch?
•               Banners no longer grant quickness on drop by default (except for Banner of Tactics in PvE only).
• Nothing to say here.
•  

All banner skills (except for Battle Standard) have been reworked. They now grant different effects when dropped, depending on the banner

Pass on the explanation of the new banner rework.

 

Pulsing boons have changed to the following:

 

• Banner of Defense: Regen (4s)
• Banner of Tactics: Resistance (2s)
• Banner of Discipline: Fury (4s)
• Banner of Strength: Might (10s, two stacks)
• Battle Standard: Fury (6s), Swiftness (12s), Might (12s, two stacks)

Ok, nice to have new duration and new boons, BUT how much time between the boons pulse?

Actually we have a boon pulse every 3 seconds, but no info about that with the new banners rework, so, stay the same or is changed? (i tremble to the though that the interval get changed too)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Double Standards: instead of doubling the boon duration it should be changed to provide the "on cast" effect both when it was cast and when it disappears, in addition to the quickness they currently have.

Depending on the values of the "on cast" effect (and no, 2 stacks of bleed for 3s is not enough for the Discipline one....), this would provide Warriors with several things:

1. 80% uptime of quickness by sacrificing 2 skills and some stats. It's not as good as what other professions get, but we don't want to be made OP--just competitive. The slight stat dip should be mandatory if someone wants to cover high duration of a specific boon; and no one should be able to cover Alacrity or Quickness 100% by themselves.
2. Damage & CC or Support (Sability, Superspead, Barrier, Aegis, Quickness) that occur once every 15s (with Double Standards) would be great. While Warrior is sacrificing some stats (Signets) or damage (Adrenaline Generation), having access to a skill that allows offensive support is incredibly decent.
3. Two blast finishers via Strength/Discipline would go very well with a Tactics-Burnzerker build, as the Might generation would be great for sustain and with a Longbow or Torch, Berserkers bring fire fields with them wherever they go.
4. Plays towards the concept of "support through offense" more readily which seems to be their thought with regards to Warriors, rather than "overwhelm them in magic".

Given that most of Warrior's utilities come from their Utility skills, it's not unreasonable to have the "on cast" effect occur twice, as it still requires a traitline and at least 66% commitment via utilities to make it cover 100% uptime. 

• Without Alacrity, a Warrior with max boon duration (+100%) would be able to maintain 80% quickness by taking 2 banners and cover 100% quickness via 3 banners. 
• With Alacrity, a Warrior with max boon duration (+100%) would be able to maintain 80% quickness by taking 1 banner, and cover 100% quickness via 2 banners.

I agree on the double cast, but not when/where. I think it should happen at summon around the banner and around the warrior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

I posted this on the main topic about the patch, and come here to read about it in the warrior forum, (to see what the thought are) but i don't know if i am really missing something big from the patch note or the people who play now warrior as a class are so desperate to see only the nice changes and pass on the "nerf" that some change really are.

 

Talking about the banner and the nerf we get with the change. (math is simple)

•             Recharge reduced from 60s to 30s (except Battle Standard)
• Nice change, faster recharge = faster moving banner to go with the party (battle standard is powerfull, i think will be ok if stay at 120 sec).
•             Animation changed; cast time reduced by 0.2s (except Battle Standard)
• Nice this one too, faster is better here.
•             Light combo field radius reduced from 600 to 360. Combo field duration reduced to from 5s to 3s.
• Range nerfed is a bad thing, is like you are negating the 2 previous change with this.
•             Pulsing boon radius reduced to 360.
• As sayd, reducing the radius is a nerf and don't help at all the previous nice change to banners considering people tend to move around and 600 is barely enough to cover basic movements during a fight.
•             Once dropped, banners last for 15 seconds, and can no longer be picked up.
• What is this incredible mega nerf to the banner? Now in game they last 60 secs and recharge in 60 secs (Battle Standard is 120 secs recharge), and can be even moved around AND have a radius of 600, BUT with this 02/08 patch, they last for 15 secs only and with less radius? (even battle standard have only 15 secs duration from the actual 60 secs?) so we have 15 secs without boons now? (Battle Standard have like 105 secs with no boons now instead of only 60) Is this a bad joke, a bad nightmare or i am missing something really big and good from these preview of the patch?
•               Banners no longer grant quickness on drop by default (except for Banner of Tactics in PvE only).
• Nothing to say here.
•  

All banner skills (except for Battle Standard) have been reworked. They now grant different effects when dropped, depending on the banner

Pass on the explanation of the new banner rework.

 

Pulsing boons have changed to the following:

 

• Banner of Defense: Regen (4s)
• Banner of Tactics: Resistance (2s)
• Banner of Discipline: Fury (4s)
• Banner of Strength: Might (10s, two stacks)
• Battle Standard: Fury (6s), Swiftness (12s), Might (12s, two stacks)

Ok, nice to have new duration and new boons, BUT how much time between the boons pulse?

Actually we have a boon pulse every 3 seconds, but no info about that with the new banners rework, so, stay the same or is changed? (i tremble to the though that the interval get changed too)

Because 360 radius is still a 720 diameter circle to fight in. That and the summon effect is now more of the reason to use them, not the pulses and 360 radius is pretty standard for AoE effects that are ranged.

It's a paradigm shift from the pulses to the summoning itself.

[anbujackson.9564]

10 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

I posted this on the main topic about the patch, and come here to read about it in the warrior forum, (to see what the thought are) but i don't know if i am really missing something big from the patch note or the people who play now warrior as a class are so desperate to see only the nice changes and pass on the "nerf" that some change really are.

 

Talking about the banner and the nerf we get with the change. (math is simple)

•             Recharge reduced from 60s to 30s (except Battle Standard)
• Nice change, faster recharge = faster moving banner to go with the party (battle standard is powerfull, i think will be ok if stay at 120 sec).
•             Animation changed; cast time reduced by 0.2s (except Battle Standard)
• Nice this one too, faster is better here.
•             Light combo field radius reduced from 600 to 360. Combo field duration reduced to from 5s to 3s.
• Range nerfed is a bad thing, is like you are negating the 2 previous change with this.
•             Pulsing boon radius reduced to 360.
• As sayd, reducing the radius is a nerf and don't help at all the previous nice change to banners considering people tend to move around and 600 is barely enough to cover basic movements during a fight.
•             Once dropped, banners last for 15 seconds, and can no longer be picked up.
• What is this incredible mega nerf to the banner? Now in game they last 60 secs and recharge in 60 secs (Battle Standard is 120 secs recharge), and can be even moved around AND have a radius of 600, BUT with this 02/08 patch, they last for 15 secs only and with less radius? (even battle standard have only 15 secs duration from the actual 60 secs?) so we have 15 secs without boons now? (Battle Standard have like 105 secs with no boons now instead of only 60) Is this a bad joke, a bad nightmare or i am missing something really big and good from these preview of the patch?
•               Banners no longer grant quickness on drop by default (except for Banner of Tactics in PvE only).
• Nothing to say here.
•  

All banner skills (except for Battle Standard) have been reworked. They now grant different effects when dropped, depending on the banner

Pass on the explanation of the new banner rework.

 

Pulsing boons have changed to the following:

 

• Banner of Defense: Regen (4s)
• Banner of Tactics: Resistance (2s)
• Banner of Discipline: Fury (4s)
• Banner of Strength: Might (10s, two stacks)
• Battle Standard: Fury (6s), Swiftness (12s), Might (12s, two stacks)

Ok, nice to have new duration and new boons, BUT how much time between the boons pulse?

Actually we have a boon pulse every 3 seconds, but no info about that with the new banners rework, so, stay the same or is changed? (i tremble to the though that the interval get changed too)

My bet is on the 3sec intervall. Simply because the base duration got increased significantly.

So you have 6 pulses for boons. 6x 4 seconds = 24 seconds, so perma regen/fury with no investment

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

14 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

My bet is on the 3sec intervall. Simply because the base duration got increased significantly.

So you have 6 pulses for boons. 6x 4 seconds = 24 seconds, so perma regen/fury with no investment

Its also very high Might uptime, but that is something that you generally want to ramp up immediately. Strength is something that you'd now drop to help break a bar while putting out quickness and building might stacks so that might is higher when the bar is broken. Defense is the only one I can see dropping on recharge in PvE for the barrier. Tactics you'd drop when the big bad CC is coming. Discipline really would only have a place in WvW/PvP. FGJ handles Fury fine along with providing Might stacks.

This is where the quickness duration really matters. 1 Banner, Warhorn, and maybe Martial Cadence should be all that is need to maintain quickness. Traited Tactics banner may fill that role in PvE. If traited Tactics Banner and Charge are all that is needed in PvE, then you can take PS or VS for a better support role. 

[Myror.7521]

Over all pretty decent changes. Also now confirm us a new support e-spec for warr to make support warr realy work and you will maybe see me playing pve content more often xd!

[Katary.7096]

So, the banners will be skills that I might want to cast for some form of utility? And I get to select them in a utility skill slot? That's cool. Now of course I won't know if they will be any good until the update goes live, but conceptually we seem to be getting an improvement. I don't see it competing with the current top support options, but that is hardly surprising.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Theory crafting time:

I suspect that the quickness duration on Double Standards will be 2s. This means with 100% BD and 100% uptime of alacrity three banners will have 50% uptime of quickness. This lines up well with Martial Cadence (even if double standards were 1.5s of quickness, this leaves some overlap which is a good thing).

I also suspect that the total duration (in PvE) for Tactics Banner will be 5s minimum, possibly 6s. Assuming the smaller number, that is 10s every 24s with 100% BD and 100% Uptime of alacrity. This would be 100% quickness uptime with Marital Cadence and 2 free utilities (this is a more modern approach).

What would be BETTER is if Double Standards is 3s quickness duration per summon. This would be 75% uptime with three banners at 100% BD and 100% alacrity uptime. 100% up time with warhorn or Martial Cadence. This gives versatility in that with warhorn you can run Phalanx Strength. With MC you can run another OH, like OH axe with Berserker. Pause every 24s to cast 3 utilities then go back to spamming F1. Would be lower DPS obviously than  Power BZK but its still a support.

HOWEVER, with Tactics banner, and this is why I said 6s (3s+3s), you get 50% uptime with just that one banner. This means you could do Horn, one other banner, and 2 shouts+VS, or just FGJ plus PS and a free utility and have a lot of build diversity.

So keep an eye out  on Aug. 2nd on those two numbers. Quickness from Tactics Banner, and quickness from Double Standards. If you can get at least 6s from a traited Tactics banner without BD then there are a lot of options available to you PvEr's build wise.

If traited Tactics is 4s quickness duration, then GG warrior is still dead in instanced PvE. Might still have some life in WvW/PvP with the on summon effects though, especially with a source of AoE stealth from a thief, mesmer, or engineer.

[JTGuevara.9018]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

August 2 Balance Update Preview - Professions - Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warrior

We badly missed the mark with banner changes in the June update. We've gone back to the drawing board to be bolder with changes, add more powerful utility, and make banners easier to use. Each banner will now do its most powerful effects immediately on use and have a much shorter base cooldown of 30 seconds.

To address situations where it felt like the Warrior needed to continually adjust the positions of their banners, pulsing boons are now granted in an increased duration per pulse, but over a shorter amount of time. It will no longer be necessary to stand around the banner for its full duration to upkeep banner boons - duration will stack up more quickly. The reduced cooldowns allow warriors the use of their powerful on-drop effects frequently. The radius and duration of banners has been reduced to better reflect this more focused role. The previous ability for banners to grant quickness to allies has been moved to the Doubled Standards trait.

General banner skill changes:

• Recharge reduced from 60s to 30s (except Battle Standard)
• Animation changed; cast time reduced by 0.2s (except Battle Standard)
• Light combo field radius reduced from 600 to 360. Combo field duration reduced to from 5s to 3s.
• Pulsing boon radius reduced to 360.
• Once dropped, banners last for 15 seconds, and can no longer be picked up.
• Banners no longer grant quickness on drop by default (except for Banner of Tactics in PvE only).
• Doubled Standards: This trait now grants quickness on banner drop, in addition to its other effects. Clarified in description that boon duration increase only applies to the pulsing boons, and not any other boons granted on the initial banner drop.

All banner skills (except for Battle Standard) have been reworked. They now grant different effects when dropped, depending on the banner:[CC1] [JD2] 

• Banner of Defense: Grants barrier and aegis to allies.
• Banner of Tactics: Applies stability and super speed (and quickness in PvE only) to allies.
• Banner of Discipline: Damages and applies bleeding and cripple. This skill no longer creates a light combo field, but acts as a blast finisher instead.
• Banner of Strength: Damages and dazes enemies. This skill no longer creates a light combo field, but acts as a blast finisher instead.
• Battle Standard: Damage multiplier has been increased from 1.5 to 4.0 in PvE only. This skill no longer creates a light combo field, but acts as a blast finisher instead.

Pulsing boons have changed to the following:

• Banner of Defense: Regen (4s)
• Banner of Tactics: Resistance (2s)
• Banner of Discipline: Fury (4s)
• Banner of Strength: Might (10s, two stacks)
• Battle Standard: Fury (6s), Swiftness (12s), Might (12s, two stacks)
  
   

My commentary: So, no facet style banners or bundles, but a much reduced duration, CD, and cast times are nice. There is a mixture of on summon effects that we've discussed previously, so they definitely read through our discussions on the matter. TBH the quick turn around made bundles/facets not possible development wise.

• I like Defense, but I think they missed the mark with it not being an AoE stunbreak.
• Superspeed on Tactics is nice, as is the stability.
• Discipline with Leg Specialist will be great, I hope the damage is on the higher end, but I bet CMC did what he does best.
• Strength will be great with No Escape. It will also be a ranged core interrupt. I can see some troll builds using Strength and Discipline banners in WvW already. Like with Discipline I hope the damage is higher, but we'll see what CMC lets us get to use, the pair being blast finishers is also very nice.
• Battle Standard getting a damage boost in PvE is weird...
• The might stacks on Battle Standard and Strength are still too low, 3 stacks on each would be right. The durations on them all got buffed to reasonable durations per pulse which is nice.
• 15s duration/30s CD on the banners though so none of it can be perma upkept, but they've shifted the value to the summon rather than the pulses which if we can't have facet style banners or banner bundles I suppose is the next best thing.

I give it a 7/10 on preview.
For 10/10 I would like to see the following additions:

• Banner of Defense becomes a self stunbreak, breaks stuns for allies in the summon location.
• Banners of Strength and Discipline should have at least 1.0 coefficients in WvW/PvP, 2.0 in PvE (remember these would use the unequipped weapon strength). Dazes have been allowed to still do damage in competitive, so I expect the WvW/PvP Banner of Strength to still do damage.
• Banner of Strength and Battle Standard should have 3 stacks of might per pulse.
• Banner of Discipline should have several stacks of bleed, not just one.
• Quickness duration should at least be 3s, preferably 5s, with how they are reworking the skills.

Overall, I think it is a solid foundation to build off of and has promise if the numbers aren't over nerfed by CMC in competitive. In PvE it depends on the barrier amount and the quickness duration, if that is borked then they have a problem still.

 

So...a lot to unpack here.

The first thing I've noticed is the first sentence: "We badly missed the mark with banner changes in the June update." That pretty much vindicates myself and plenty of others who were perfectly justified in calling the current update a shite sandwich with a side of urine. And also that these other "warrior mains" and others who supported the update now have egg on their faces. That this current banner "rework" was so short-lived should say VOLUMES about how bad it was. Also because Anet clearly felt the heat, and not just from us warriors either.

Now for the banner changes. I'm...actually pleased. It feels weird. They actually changed their function: "Once dropped, banners last for 15 seconds, and can no longer be picked up." . Although yes, the duration and radius are shorter, the basic problem was addressed: we don't have to carry them anymore.   So, the rework is neither a kit nor a revenant-style facet as requested, but more of an....engi turret? Good enough for me. Now, I can actually carry them on my skill bar and not feel like a total fool. Now, this is a start for a support warrior, though more would have to be done obviously(like a new support line or a Tactics rework!). I like barrier, I like regen, I like aegis, I like resistance(although I think it should be more). A bit disappointed in lack of protection. I especially like that they inflict conditions now!

Overall, a good start. As with everyone else, I'm still somewhat skeptical(given recent shenanigans) and withhold further praise until the 2nd and I actually get to play this when it goes live.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

So...a lot to unpack here.

The first thing I've noticed is the first sentence: "We badly missed the mark with banner changes in the June update." That pretty much vindicates myself and plenty of others who were perfectly justified in calling the current update a shite sandwich with a side of urine. And also that these other "warrior mains" and others who supported the update now have egg on their faces. That this current banner "rework" was so short-lived should say VOLUMES about how bad it was. Also because Anet clearly felt the heat, and not just from us warriors either.

Now for the banner changes. I'm...actually pleased. It feels weird. They actually changed their function: "Once dropped, banners last for 15 seconds, and can no longer be picked up." . Although yes, the duration and radius are shorter, the basic problem was addressed: we don't have to carry them anymore.   So, the rework is neither a kit nor a revenant-style facet as requested, but more of an....engi turret? Good enough for me. Now, I can actually carry them on my skill bar and not feel like a total fool. Now, this is a start for a support warrior, though more would have to be done obviously(like a new support line or a Tactics rework!). I like barrier, I like regen, I like aegis, I like resistance(although I think it should be more). A bit disappointed in lack of protection. I especially like that they inflict conditions now!

Overall, a good start. As with everyone else, I'm still somewhat skeptical(given recent shenanigans) and withhold further praise until the 2nd and I actually get to play this when it goes live.

Agreed. It’s a solid foundation, but that depends on the final numbers on the 2nd.

If the base durations are enough for 1-2 banners and either charge or cadence, then it’ll be fine. The other effects are nice, but again depend on numbers, good if higher DOA if too low.

I’m wary on what CMC did for them in competitive. Don’t trust him to let warrior have nice things not Shoutsworn.

[eXruina.4956]

warrior will be competing with firebrand for that quickness slot, and its no competition at all.

firebrand can not only bring 100% quickness uptime effortlessly, it brings literally almost everything else too.

i'm just not seeing it. it will all depend on the final numbers but even then i don't see warrior competing with firebrands for that quickness slot.

i like that they changed banner functionality though, i feel boons provided are still too restrained.

will have to see it live.

Edited July 27, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[Kodama.6453]

6 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

warrior will be competing with firebrand for that quickness slot, and its no competition at all.

 

firebrand can not only bring 100% quickness uptime effortlessly, it brings literally almost everything else too.

 

i'm just not seeing it. it will all depend on the final numbers but even then i don't see warrior competing with firebrands for that quickness slot.

No class can currently compete with Firebrand as a quickness provider. But many other classes are still viable as quickness sources, if needed in a group.

These changes have potential. The banner reworks in general seem interesting and if the numbers for the quickness duration are not too short, people might start to consider to let warriors cover their quickness needs.

Warrior doesn't need to get on the level of firebrand. Firebrand needs to get brought down to more reasonable levels.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

warrior will be competing with firebrand for that quickness slot, and its no competition at all.

 

firebrand can not only bring 100% quickness uptime effortlessly, it brings literally almost everything else too.

 

i'm just not seeing it. it will all depend on the final numbers but even then i don't see warrior competing with firebrands for that quickness slot.

For PvE it depends on the numbers and what the DPS benchmarks are. If the barrier on Defense is high enough then that matters too. If Tactics alone is enough to cover Quickness with Warhorn, then yeah you have options to bring to the table. If they lowball it all then you will indeed not find a seat at the table. Not to sound like a broken record, but what they are previewing looks like a solid foundation to build off of, so long as the base numbers are good enough.

For WvW/PvP, again depending on the numbers, the summon effects alone make them potentially viable. Like approaching a point under stealth, dropping Tactics banner, then going engaging from stealth with resistance, stability, super speed, and maybe quickness. Or dropping Strength banner with No Escape traited, or Discipline banner with Leg Specialist traited. As was mentioned earlier that pulsing resistance gives you a zone of weakness/blind/chill/slow/immob/vuln/cripple immunity to brawl inside of.

I can see lots of ways to play with them with these new effects in an organized competitive group.

[Infinity.2876]

Deleted

Edited July 27, 2022 by Infinity.2876

[lgwald.4038]

Am I crazy to think the banner that gives stab, super speed and resistance is going to be good for sPvp? All of that feels useful on a node. Especially against certain classes that spam weakness and blinds. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, lgwald.4038 said:

Am I crazy to think the banner that gives stab, super speed and resistance is going to be good for sPvp? All of that feels useful on a node. Especially against certain classes that spam weakness and blinds. 

It will be. Lot of potential there.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

With Phalanx Strength  Banner of Strength is now a 5k Heal on a 30CD in WvW. (Best case scenario ofc.)

In Cele gear its 5.6k.

 Pretty sure thats why it doesnt has higher stack numbers.  Imagine 5 Stacks of might. That would be 12500 Healing just passivly.

 

[firedragon.8953]

Overall, I think it actually sounds pretty good. A lot of it will hinge on what we don't know yet though (quick duration, etc.).

I spent already too much time responding in the main thread so I'll just link my response here.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

wait wait wait wait.

 

hold on

 

Quote

Banner of Tactics: Applies stability and super speed (and quickness in PvE only) 

 

is that the first functionality split in gw2 pve/pvp history?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

28 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

wait wait wait wait.

 

hold on

 

 

is that the first functionality split in gw2 pve/pvp history?

 

Depends on what you mean by functionality.  For additional boons I don't have an example (sure there has been one though); but for basic functionality One Wolf Pack - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) would like a word 😂.