Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.

[zeyeti.8347]

Anyway thx for the discussions , i am off

[Obtena.7952]

38 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Try AA as a mesmer , gonna see the difference , chrono needed some changes , the class was not played anymore ,  Mech doesnt need any more updates , as numbers , as mechanics or as qol changes , it was already the most lackluster class of the game. When you do not press any button , you should do 0 damage or at least very little damage . Thats like all games works , you press a button something happen , you press nothing , nothing happen , except in gw 2 it seems .

I don't need to try anything to see a difference because the difference has nothing to do with the fact that these LI builds are intended for accessibility. As much as you want to argue this is a balance issue, it's not. 

If you want a game that relates effort with DPS output, there are LOTS of those you can choose from to play. When you CHOOSE to play a game that has a selling point for accessibility, then don't expect that effort/DPS output relationship to be the primary focus of balancing efforts. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[EyzKold.8247]

The Rifle Mech is intended to be available for the average joe player (with or without disabilities) while exploring the various game modes.   Some players have complained that the AA on the mechanist is overpowered.  It is not.  It is a lI build for sure but not optimal and dies rather quickly in pvp/wvw game modes. 

Also, I have to laugh at the youtube videos...you can only achieve high dps if you are standing still with buffs, food, etc.   Targets tend to move around and players have to dodge out of the way.  That is where the real dps numbers come in.  They will be much lower for average joe player.   So, buff this, nerf that will only make it worse for those that are not Leet players because they won't understand the mechanics or build to have high dps.

I'm an average joe player and I have been online for over 2 years now.  I do use the mechanist and it seems ok for overland encounters.  it's questionable in wvw depending upon the other player skill level and damage.  Most of the time while in solo...I just die.  In goups, I do ok.  

 

I've tried many classes and enjoyed player 3-4 of them before nerfs.  Ele and Herald were my first pics.  I had a blast playing Ele then after a certain nerf last year I regulated to crafting.  My herald is the same now...

As an average joe player I'm tired of changing classes and trying to figure out what next to play.  (costly and time consuming).  Li rifle mech is the go to atm and for many others.  It's what I call a no-brainer elite spec. 

[ThunderX.6591]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

It has impact ! the impact is frustration , i have waited for 5 years to have a decent heal , support or dps as an ele , and all patches here are about mechs buffs and mech more easiness or "accessibilty" as you call it , pressing f1 is so hard ? well try play weaver then and hit the 35k benchmark , trust me you will never talk again about accessibilty after trying that.

 

Ok, you play Ele, nice class (tempest healer is the TOP healer in the game as healer goes), and with 28/06 patch they nerfed it, why? Some people in high level contents (people who play hard the class) used hammer skill 1 on fire attuned in a non standard way to "UP a lot" the final dps they do (is all explained in the patch notes), for that, hammer get nerfed (i would have preferred reducing damage on skill 1 on fire attuned, or slow it down, but they choose the general hammer nerf, final).

For Mecha, i explained in another post how/where they nerfed it from patch 28/06 until now. (weapon rework isn't a buff, is a complete different approach and use of it).

 

[ThunderX.6591]

And remember, casual players is what doubled the people in the game...... and many many casual come with EOD, see the robot in the login window, and so check if there is a class with robot (don't low the allure of Robot to people), there is one class, done, class choosen.

Is easy to play? Even better seeing casual that just started don't have full set multi numbers of equip ready in a corner.

And remember, the next step is Steam (yeah, the do or die challenge that is postponed a lot for that).

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by ThunderX.6591

[Yaki.9563]

The green mech is obnoxious in both appearance and size.

You can't hide minion names so this just adds to that problem.

Mechanist is a poorly designed spec as it's basically core engineer + 10k dps robot. Insulting to all other engi specs.

It goes beyond LI. It's ZI: Zero Intensity.

 

Mechanist is like a troll spec designed to aggravate other players and constantly rubbing it in their faces.

[Treacy.4067]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again with the sensational rhetoric ...

But what they said is true though.  There's already videos of people benching 27-28k with no input, well besides the initial one button press lol.  This goes beyond "accessibility" and into mindless automated territory akin to mobile gaming.  So you can stop banging on that drum because it has nothing to do with accessibility.  I say this as someone that has had to adapt the way I play because of a bad right hand.  

[Obtena.7952]

43 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

But what they said is true though.  There's already videos of people benching 27-28k with no input, well besides the initial one button press lol.  This goes beyond "accessibility" and into mindless automated territory akin to mobile gaming.  So you can stop banging on that drum because it has nothing to do with accessibility.  I say this as someone that has had to adapt the way I play because of a bad right hand.  

Sure it's true, but it's not a problem. It makes absolutely NO difference to you if someone gets DPS from pressing 1 button or 100 buttons. NONE.

The worst part about this game has ALWAYS been the segment of players who insist on telling you how to play. We saw that with high DPS meta, high support meta and now we got people telling Anet we can't LI builds because again, the false claim that for SOME reason, people think they can dictate to others how they should play the game. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

30 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure it's true, but it's not a problem. It makes absolutely NO difference to you if someone gets DPS from pressing 1 button or 100 buttons. NONE.

 

Sure it is and sure it does. That's why people are meming and upset over it.  It's not healthy for the game.  There's a few issues at play here, the balance aspect of it being a big part and the automated play issue amongst other things.

[Fwog.9387]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:35 PM, Jerus.4350 said:

No no that’s the best part, it doesn’t work on the untamed pet skills, just the pets core skills. 😅

The easier power dps was too hard. But 200 APM (exaggeration but you get my point) Untamed, nah they don't need it. 

[Kuma.1503]

9 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

You know the difference between ele dps being 39 k , and engi 31-33k , well yes the numbers and , ... freaking 300 action per minutes

Obviously , you never played ele on endgame content , what you have to do to get to your minimal dps , when u have a semi afk/sleeping mech near you at the benchmark , it's frustrating as hell ... Just think about it , you do the same work in the same office in the same department as a random guy and he get payed twice your money , just because he has blue eyes and the boss like blue eyes , does that sound  fair ? well no , and thats the feeling i have playing my ele atm (me luv mechs , duuuuhhh).

I play catalyst in raids all the time. It's really not as hard as people make it out to be. A good short hand for the rotation if you're struggling with it is:

Enter attunement. 

Activate orb and field 

Hit corresponding utility

Hit buttons in order of right to left. (Skip air 4 and Earth 4) 

Throw orbs at enemy at end of loop

repeat. 

Maybe spend a second or two to build up energy again in earth if running low. 

On fights with decent melee uptime (like most strikes) I tend to out dps the mechs. Especially ever since I started taking Staunch Auras over Empowered Empowerment in CC heavy fights where we don't have a Guard to give us constant aegis/stab. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Sure it is and sure it does. That's why people are meming and upset over it.  It's not healthy for the game.  There's a few issues at play here, the balance aspect of it being a big part and the automated play issue amongst other things.

You can say it does ... you have to explain how because I can play that game too ... it doesn't. How many buttons someone presses to get X DPS has NO impact on how I choose to play the game. In fact, you don't ACTAULLY know how people are playing unless you ask them. So what is your excuse for being so offended by the fact this exists? Just don't play with people that use it. Problem Solved. That's always been the answer. 

Again, you claim there is a 'balance aspect' .. you're right. If Anet is making decisions about enabling players with LI builds, then they are using accessibility as a factor in their balancing. In fact, I would go so far as to say that consideration has always been there. LI builds aren't new. They are fashionable now because some astute players and Anet realize that exclusivity is not good for the sustainability of their endgame content developments. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

11 hours ago, EyzKold.8247 said:

The Rifle Mech is intended to be available for the average joe player (with or without disabilities) while exploring the various game modes.   Some players have complained that the AA on the mechanist is overpowered.  It is not.  It is a lI build for sure but not optimal and dies rather quickly in pvp/wvw game modes. 

Also, I have to laugh at the youtube videos...you can only achieve high dps if you are standing still with buffs, food, etc.   Targets tend to move around and players have to dodge out of the way.  That is where the real dps numbers come in.  They will be much lower for average joe player.   So, buff this, nerf that will only make it worse for those that are not Leet players because they won't understand the mechanics or build to have high dps.

I'm an average joe player and I have been online for over 2 years now.  I do use the mechanist and it seems ok for overland encounters.  it's questionable in wvw depending upon the other player skill level and damage.  Most of the time while in solo...I just die.  In goups, I do ok.  

 

I've tried many classes and enjoyed player 3-4 of them before nerfs.  Ele and Herald were my first pics.  I had a blast playing Ele then after a certain nerf last year I regulated to crafting.  My herald is the same now...

As an average joe player I'm tired of changing classes and trying to figure out what next to play.  (costly and time consuming).  Li rifle mech is the go to atm and for many others.  It's what I call a no-brainer elite spec. 

Yeah targets move , but you know what ? you do those damage 1200 range anyway , hahaha, If mech rifle AA isnt overpowered , then anet can give broken op auto submachine to all classes , i would love my Dh with auto launch set on f1 and spamming AA on longbow dealing 28k . and for your information i tried that afk build on same easy raid bosses , i reached 32k , oh sure i had to move a bit , sure i had to dodge 2-3 times , well is this a mobile with auto resolution ?

 

As for exclusivity , if a build do 28k damage while sleeping then obviously a very high intensity build should do twice the damage !

So your argument here is that most people are lazy to understand the basic of a game : press button game do something ....

Edited August 4, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[zeyeti.8347]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You can say it does ... you have to explain how because I can play that game too ... it doesn't. How many buttons someone presses to get X DPS has NO impact on how I choose to play the game. In fact, you don't ACTAULLY know how people are playing unless you ask them. So what is your excuse for being so offended by the fact this exists? Just don't play with people that use it. Problem Solved. That's always been the answer. 

Again, you claim there is a 'balance aspect' .. you're right. If Anet is making decisions about enabling players with LI builds, then they are using accessibility as a factor in their balancing. In fact, I would go so far as to say that consideration has always been there. LI builds aren't new. They are fashionable now because some astute players and Anet realize that exclusivity is not good for the sustainability of their endgame content developments. 

Dont worry i asked , guildmates with 6 mechs rifles raiding , and hovering to 20-28k on some encounters , checked on arcdps 80% of the damage come rifle AA , data ! stop pretending ! or saying ! maybe ! blablabla ! do some tests ! i made tests , i proved my  position

28k while afk is dumb ! 

You could change that to max 15k , i dont think ppl will complain.

And for me , it impact my choice , i always try to take what i feel is the more efficient in all encounters .

Those are endgame contents , do you think i first try out dhumm cm for my first encounters , no , as many players i trained on vale guardian and escort wiping 75% of the time , but training .

Your accessibilty talking , remember me of those people making the sorry excuse that being fat is very sexy , cause they are too lazy to do some sports !

Make the game more accessible , yes ! Not more dumb !

Raptor mounts not being tied to path of fire 1st story is more accessibility.

But you are right about exclusivity , the "bolderness" changes to raids , gave them a fresh air renewal , never seen so much lfg for w5 training , and that i agree is a very good thing .

So make the content more accessible not the actual class , or else give this access to all other class too.

Edited August 4, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Kodama.6453]

Well, all I can say about this is: deal with it.

This is what people were asking for. The most popular elite spec idea for engineer was having a customizable robot buddy and Anet delivered.

Now it's here and it's going to stay. If mechanist is supposed to be viable, then the mech needs to deal a good chunk of damage.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[zeyeti.8347]

I agree with that , but at least make it you have to press buttons to deal those damage.

What many of you dont understand is the direction the game is taking is complete lazy easiness. 

And if you want all your content to be that freaking ez , well good for you , ther must be content for everyone .

But open world is already fairly ez because you are many times near players who know what to do , and make up for your mistakes when you are completely new to the game (iam pretty sure i can play warrior full minstrel in pve méta event and still succed) 

there is the challenge apsect of it too , succeeding in something hard , know to be hard for a lot of players is a real satisfaction and getting the reward proportional of the trouble you had to pass trough contribute a lot into it.

But that challenge aspect is slowly fading away for me 

Will be last message for me (i will not lie , i am getting more and more pissed while writing and reading), but you all have interesting point of view , and while i understand some of your statement , there are some i cannot (and dont want) understand.

And i have a raidboss to clear afk (nah kidding)

 

Have a nice day all , cheers.

Edited August 4, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Has anyone checked if the rifle does more damage than the mace yet?  If so, that would pose a balance issue.  Melee weapons are higher risk, so they need to do more damage than their ranged counterparts.  

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Has anyone checked if the rifle does more damage than the mace yet?  If so, that would pose a balance issue.  Melee weapons are higher risk, so they need to do more damage than their ranged counterparts.  

Iirc there was a reddit post showing all the AA numbers and mace still did more (there you go). Also, mace has a stronger support aspect to it so the "melee needs to do more dps than range" logic is not as applicable here.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Luthan.5236]

I think the game should focus on changing away from adjusting dps - if some people find it too easy to make a lot of dps with low amount of work.

Instead the game should focus on taking the fact that a high dps build is more glassy. Maybe making bosses intelligent enough to go for the engineer not the mech. Then he at least would have to run around and if the boss did ranged damage it would require even a bit more effort than just staying out of melee range. Of course the boss could also spike down the mech. (=> Making it not harder to do dps ... but making it harder for a easy dps build - that should be allowed to exist - to stay alive. While builds that have it harder to do the dps - more actions per minute - can have it easier to stay alive.)

Edited August 4, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Alcatraznc.3869]

16 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

A pet mechanic should never be getting exponential damage boosts like players do, and currently no other pet profession has access to this behavior except Rangers a little bit through the Beastmastery line.

 

Beastmaster doesnt trade its entire class gimmick for a pet. Beastmaster perk in a way still buff the player for using it unlike Mechanist that only boost the mech.

 

If the entire tree doesnt boost the player AND removes about 24 potential skills usable that makes what an engineer is, then the tradeoff has to be something worth it, which translate into strongs DPS skill and strong support skills.  Right now a Mechanist without a pet for whatever reason is just a worse core engineer.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

7 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

Beastmaster doesnt trade its entire class gimmick for a pet. Beastmaster perk in a way still buff the player for using it unlike Mechanist that only boost the mech.

 

If the entire tree doesnt boost the player AND removes about 24 potential skills usable that makes what an engineer is, then the tradeoff has to be something worth it, which translate into strongs DPS skill and strong support skills.  Right now a Mechanist without a pet for whatever reason is just a worse core engineer.

All the signets are useable without a mech, and its where most of Machinists' utility comes from, and Core Engineer doesn't have access to those signets so losing toolbelt skills is less of a problem than you seem to portray it as. All you really lose without the mech is damage and the overstacked F2 on support builds, which don't lose the mech to begin with since its getting healed by the Engineer.

 

Because signets can be used without losing their passives, they effectively replace toolbelt skills with the use of only one trait, and they're much better than anything the toolbelt offered.

 

I mean, they're really just the best skills in the game, but I won't get into that here.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Alcatraznc.3869]

15 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

All the signets are useable without a mech, and its where most of Machinists' utility comes from, and Core Engineer doesn't have access to those signets so losing toolbelt skills is less of a problem than you seem to portray it as.

No not really. Elixir guns offers a breakstun on its toolbelt which is a huge boon for PvP content. Same for oil shoes and its superspeed + breakstun with short CD. Grenade kit offers a burst which is very handy after a CC or just as a burst damage. Mine toss drops fields of mines around the player that deals good damage on top of removing boons. Bombs kits offer a big CC.  Rifle turret offer a good DPS skill that can be spammed every 6ish seconds.This is just a small example of the flexibility toolkit brings

 

Signet only offers a TP+cleanse or an aoe field condition around the player or a small bump or a small shield that block projectile.

 

The signet are strong yes but they are definitely not strong enough to compensate for the lack of utility/damage you lose.

 

Quote

All you really lose without the mech is damage and the overstacked F2 on support builds, which don't lose the mech to begin with since its getting healed by the Engineer.

If you're running full berserker like people do on these high damage build, then no the mech is going to die and you will have to either sacrifice the mech to keep yourself alive (but you will trade your damage) or sacrifice your own heal to help the mech at the cost of you dying if you mess up.

 

And signet keep their passive IF you run the grandmaster trait for that. If you dont, which happens in pretty much all DPS build and support build, then you lose your passive.

Quote

 

Because signets can be used without losing their passives, they effectively replace toolbelt skills with the use of only one trait, and they're much better than anything the toolbelt offered.

 

Refer to what I said above. 

 

And no, I would still rather have a strong utility skill that can have an impact when timing it correctly rather than keeping some passive signet.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869

[Treacy.4067]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You can say it does ... you have to explain how because I can play that game too ... it doesn't. How many buttons someone presses to get X DPS has NO impact on how I choose to play the game.

It does sorry.  It's been explained all over the place, it's not rocket science so not sure how you're still not understanding.  AFK gameplay is not gameplay at all.  There's a reason why mechs are all over the place, there's a reason why people are rushing to do content with them because they think it will get a nerf soon (and rightfully so) and there's a reason why mechs are filling groups over other classes.  It's balance is out of whack. The old "it doesn't affect me so that must mean everyone else too" argument is nonsense as well.  

You also said " As much as you want to argue this is a balance issue, it's not, then went on to say "Again, you claim there is a 'balance aspect' .. you're right." So yes it's a balance issue.  One class shouldn't be auto attacking 28k with no input, it's not good for the game.  And again no it's not an accessibility issue.  Those types of numbers should not come from automation.  A person should be playing the game not the computer.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Treacy.4067 said:

 AFK gameplay is not gameplay at all. 

People playing AFK doesn't affect you. People playing mechs aren't AFK. You aren't going to sensationalize this to justify why it shouldn't exist. It's not a problem there are mechs everywhere. It's not a problem people are doing content with them. If you don't like mechs in your group, make your own groups and kick them. It's not a problem they are LI. We need builds like that in the game, despite the envious people that can't handle it. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

gw2 mobile next. why play the game when it can play itself