How is it possible anet that you still haven't added tattoo options for humans.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Norn#Culture

Despite the cold weather of the Shiverpeaks, the norn are often only lightly clad, exposing skin which is frequently covered in elaborated tattoos in Scandinavian/Norse style motifs.

 

No matter how much you dislike it or think it shouldn't be what it is, tattoos are part of Norn culture.

What are you on about?

Still trying to figure out your rationale.

This does not even mean anything.

You copied and pasted a tiny little portion about norns that says they display tattoos. 

So what?

That's your whole point of saying that humans should not have tattoos because Norn display theirs on a cold winter?

 

Should I start losing faith in humanity?

Edited August 15, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

What are you on about?

What kind of rationale is this?

This does not even mean anything.

 

You copied and pasted something...

 

You know what, I give up at this point.

I just haven't the patience to reason with you.

Good luck OP.

I hope ANet considers making a few more bucks.

I'm out of here.

You were talking about "Culture, Lifestyle, Hobbies, Habits, Environment, Traits, etc... defines a race" and tattoos are pretty clearly part of Norn culture. Hardly "doesn't mean anything".

[voltaicbore.8012]

I'd appreciate tattoos (and more character creation options in general), but I don't see their absence as a huge misstep holding back either my enjoyment or willingness to spend money on the game.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

 

2 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Norn shapeshifting and Sylvari bioluminescence are race-specific traits, but they're not what the OP is asking for, so I'm not sure where you're going with your comparison.

When you get back, please enlighten me as to how adding tattoos (more than already exist for other races), would be harmful for the game or for ArenaNet's sales, because I'm really not seeing it.

Sure, as soon as you let me know two things: what Norn shapeshifting, which ingame exists as racial skills a plurality of the playerbase doesn't even use thanks to how inferior said skills are and that Revanents can't even use, have to do with character customization, and where exactly I made any statements regarding whether any changes to character options would positively or negatively effect ArenaNet's sales.

But really whether you do or not doesn't matter to me, as I already said I don't actually care about this argument, and for good reason.  Last I checked Anet still hasn't fixed the bugged Canthan faces that they released before EoD came out, given that fact I don't see them bothering to put the work into creating an additional feature to the other races character customization.  Its all moot.

Now, excuse me, I have lamentation that I need to hear....

[AgentMoore.9453]

Just now, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

what (do) Norn shapeshifting (skills) have to do with character customization

Nothing. I said they're a race-specific trait, like Sylvari bioluminescence, which makes them different from tattoos, which are not a race-specific trait. There are a few posts in here insisting that without tattoos, Norn have no defining traits at all. I say that their shapeshifting is the most obvious one, followed by their build, idle animations, and race-specific emotes. The idea that tattoos are a Norn-only thing is not supported in any source that I can find whereas I have already found several examples for you of tats on other races.

So, since other races demonstrably have access to tattoos already without making it impossible to identify the Norn among them, asking for more seems like a nonissue.

5 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

where I made any statements regarding whether any changes to character options would positively or negatively effect ArenaNet's sales.

I asked you about sales and how the addition might hurt the game based upon these things you posted, because hurting the game in some way or negatively impacting sales are the only two reasons I can fathom why you might be opposed to this. If you have a different reason against this, feel free to share.

Here are the things you said on page 1:
> adding tattoos to human character customization would likely be a hassle that probably isn't worth the effort (Why do you think this wouldn't be worth the effort? I would think Human cosmetics would sell incredibly well based on past offerings.)
> Arenanet made the design decision to make tattoos specifically and exclusively a Norn feature (Disproven in my previous posts, but is there a source for this that you were referencing?)

13 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I don't actually care about this argument

Fair enough. If this is your last post here, I will not continue to quote you.

13 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Last I checked Anet still hasn't fixed the bugged Canthan faces that they released before EoD came out, given that fact I don't see them bothering to put the work into creating an additional feature to the other races character customization.

I agree with this sentiment. I'm disappointed by the EoD additions and feel that they are well below the skill of what ArenaNet has produced in the past (not to mention broken).

Going back to fix old content, repairing broken events/achievements, and ensuring CC options and gem shop offerings are up to current standards (and bug-free!) are all improvements I would like to see. Looking at the long list of things that haven't been repaired or polished is depressing, but after sticking with this game for close to a decade, I hit the hopium now and then that they'll respond to feedback threads like this one. Whether something like tats would be added through the CC or simply sold in the shop like the masks of the wanderer and the silent, I think they'd be welcomed (and purchased) by players.

[Doggie.3184]

Doesn't really matter when this is still the only MMO on the market without a way to hide your chest piece. Your tattoos will be hidden all the time just like Sylvari's patterns are, especially for males. One reason I ditched all my Sylvari earlier this year when character slots were on sale. The lack of suitable fashion for them all these years finally bored me away from them.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[SoulGuardian.6203]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You were talking about "Culture, Lifestyle, Hobbies, Habits, Environment, Traits, etc... defines a race" and tattoos are pretty clearly part of Norn culture. Hardly "doesn't mean anything".

I was going to stop replying. But hey, I too get bored from time to time.

 

Alrighty.

Canthans use tattoos, especially ritualists. 

You can still see a few canthans with tattoos. 

Necromancers have a few eye shadow sorta face tattoos.

I'm pretty sure there are others, which escape my memory at the moment.

So; Celtic tattoos are part of norn culture, not what defines them from other races, and definitely not tattoos in general.

 

Nobody is asking the same type of tattoos for humans. At least not like the ones norn have.

There are thousands of tattoo types, such as Rits Tribals.

 

Also, if you see it that way, no one is saying to take away Norns identity. 

If that's your whole issue with this topic.

Which, I don't really see why.

Norns are pretty much definable, just by their physical appearance alone.

 

On a side note, let me ask you.

Do you even have a norn character?

If so, does it have tattoos? 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Doesn't really matter when this is still the only MMO on the market without a way to hide your chest piece. 

Wait, what? This is a thing?  I've dabbled with a handful of other MMOs over the years, mostly out of morbid curiosity, and I've never seen any that had a "Hide Chest Piece" option.

[Labjax.2465]

Just now, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Wait, what? This is a thing?  I've dabbled with a handful of other MMOs over the years, mostly out of morbid curiosity, and I've never seen any that had a "Hide Chest Piece" option.

Main one I know of is SWTOR. Not a hide chest piece toggle exactly, but an overlay outfit piece that makes it invisible and shows the underwear. It also has an overlay piece for top and bottom that is the underwear itself and the color can be dyed. Bit hard to get ahold of though and their dye system is garbo (lot of strange color combinations and dyes are tradeable one-time-use type things), so win some, lose some.

[Linken.6345]

5 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Wait, what? This is a thing?  I've dabbled with a handful of other MMOs over the years, mostly out of morbid curiosity, and I've never seen any that had a "Hide Chest Piece" option.

Age of Conan is one of the only mmos you can do this completly and it is PEGI 18 because of it

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Just gonna leave this here...

[Doggie.3184]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Wait, what? This is a thing?  I've dabbled with a handful of other MMOs over the years, mostly out of morbid curiosity, and I've never seen any that had a "Hide Chest Piece" option.

As for some that I've played with it; The Old Republic takes place in a super futuristic universe in space that takes itself pretty seriously yet even that has invisible armor for every slot for super cheap~ at least cheap when I played it, it's been a while. Final Fantasy 14 has invisible armor for every slot for practically free and tons of clothing options for it. Phantasy Star Online 2 has... too much in that aspect and is rated M because they take it way too far, lol. NCsoft's deceased Wildstar game had a hide button for all armor pieces~ (whens GW2 going to adopt not only that but their player housing system?) I recall Runes of Magic being the first MMO I played with a toggle off for armor pieces way back in like.. 2009.

These are all available for all genders ofc and females still have something covering their pointy bitz.

Then there's the fact that nearly all MMOs have swimsuits and some type of topless armor sets; even as far out as the recent Fallout 76 has them. Elder Scrolls Online has armor and outfits that are shirtless or near with tattoos and body paint. Guild Wars 1 had naked Necromancers covered in scars. XD

Some Tattoos can be enchanted with magic that will defend you like armor and make your spells stronger. Technically Scribes should be able to do that.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Labjax.2465]

11 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

As for some that I've played with it; The Old Republic takes place in a super futuristic universe in space that takes itself pretty seriously yet even that has invisible armor for every slot for super cheap~ at least cheap when I played it, it's been a while. Final Fantasy 14 has invisible armor for every slot for practically free and tons of clothing options for it. Phantasy Star Online 2 has... too much in that aspect and is rated M because they take it way too far, lol. NCsoft's deceased Wildstar game had a hide button for all armor pieces~ (whens GW2 going to adopt not only that but their player housing system?) I recall Runes of Magic being the first MMO I played with a toggle off for armor pieces way back in like.. 2009.

These are all available for all genders ofc and females still have something covering their pointy bitz.

Then there's the fact that nearly all MMOs have swimsuits and some type of topless armor sets; even as far out as the recent Fallout 76 has them. Elder Scrolls Online has armor and outfits that are shirtless or near with tattoos and body paint. Guild Wars 1 had naked Necromancers covered in scars. XD

Some Tattoos can be enchanted with magic that will defend you like armor and make your spells stronger. Technically Scribed should be able to do that.

It's nice to see it put in perspective. I think this game cemented how weird its leadership is about showing skin when they grudgingly added a hide feet option through a super rare drop that is worth like 2k gold per armor class on the TP. I mean, what's next, an item that can only be obtained as a super rare drop from soo-won and it hides sleeves on tops so you can see elbow. Sometimes I forget how bizarre some of this game's decisions are.

[Ashen.2907]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:56 PM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I am presenting logical facts

No, you are presenting suppositions, which may have a basis in logic (and with which I might agree) but it is still supposition, not fact.

[Dante.1508]

Humans in Tyria aren't the same as humans on earth, Tattoos never caught on.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

No, you are presenting suppositions, which may have a basis in logic (and with which I might agree) but it is still supposition, not fact.

It is a fact that tattoos are universal. 

They are not tied to norn.

 

Furr and horns are tied to charr.

Leaves are tied to Sylvari. 

Huge alien eyes and ears are tied to asura.

Tattoos are NOT tied to any race in particular. 

I wish people get it in their heads already.

Tattoos are not race specific, and therefore do not represent norn.

Fact!

Also, fact! People change their characters names, and appearance all the time, buying the appropriate item from Gemstore.

If tattoos skins were available for humans, definitely a load of people would use it.

Especially when there are a ton of people requesting this in QoL.

 

Those are not suppositions.

They are facts.

 

With all seriousness,  you need to stop trying to find ways around it.

It's all in black and white.

If you still don't get it after this, my goodness... 

[Ashen.2907]

1 minute ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

It is a fact that tattoos are universal. 

They are not tied to norn.

 

Furr and horns are tied to charr.

Leaves are tied to Sylvari. 

Huge alien eyes and ears are tied to asura.

Tattoos are NOT tied to any race in particular. 

I wish people get it in their heads already.

Tattoos are not race specific, and therefore do not represent norn.

Fact!

Also, fact! People change their characters names, and appearance all the time, buying the appropriate item from Gemstore.

If tattoos skins were available for humans, definitely a load of people would use it.

Especially when there are a ton of people requesting this in QoL.

 

Those are not suppositions.

They are facts.

 

With all seriousness,  you need to stop trying to find ways around it.

It's all in black and white.

If you still don't get it after this, my goodness... 

If tattoos are not tied to Norn, if they are universal, then why does this thread exist? The OP could just put tattoos on his human without needing to ask questions about it on the forums.

You made claims in the post I quoted that were supposition. Supposition based on logic (as I said). Supposition that I agree with (as I said). But supposition nonetheless.

 

You really need to get a dictionary and look up the meaning of the words you use.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Canthans use tattoos, especially ritualists. 

Then you'll need to wait until you can play canthans, I guess.

Quote

So; Celtic tattoos are part of norn culture, not what defines them from other races, and definitely not tattoos in general.

Yes, exactly: it is part of norn culture, this is what is being pointed out. That's also something you listed as something that's meaningful (culture) and then still tried (and try?) saying it somehow "means nothing".

Quote

Also, if you see it that way, no one is saying to take away Norns identity. 

That's how you see it, others see it differently -as yet another step that visually brings norns and humans closer for no reason.

Quote

Do you even have a norn character?

If so, does it have tattoos? 

Yes and yes, although I'm not sure what the relevance here is 😄

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SoulGuardian.6203]

17 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

If tattoos are not tied to Norn, if they are universal, then why does this thread exist? The OP could just put tattoos on his human without needing to ask questions about it on the forums.

You made claims in the post I quoted that were supposition. Supposition based on logic (as I said). Supposition that I agree with (as I said). But supposition nonetheless.

 

You really need to get a dictionary and look up the meaning of the words you use.

Now you're just resorting to personal attacks.

Can you not be objective without making that kind of remarks?

I don't need a dictionary. 

Also, you're not clear in your statements either.

You say that you agree, but are actually contradicting me.

Let's keep this friendly, shall we?

Forum mods don't want this sort of behaviour. 

I've been very respectful so far.

I expect the same courtesy. If you don't mind.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Then you'll need to wait until you can play canthans, I guess.

Is this suppose to be funny?

 

16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes, exactly: it is part of norn culture, this is what is being pointed out.

Celtic type tattoos are.

Not tattoos in general.

There are many types of tattoos. 

16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's also something you listed as something that's meaningful (culture) and then still tried (and try?) saying it somehow "means nothing".

Is this suppose to be coherent? 

I said it means nothing, yes.

We both know what I meant. You're just playing hardball. 

16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's how you see it, others see it differently -as yet another step that visually brings norns and humans closer for no reason.

So nothing of what I've said so far about Norn actually stuck?

It's like soft snow. It melts as soon as it hits the ground.

So size, hairstyle, facial features, etc etc isn't enough to differentiate norn from humans?

Yes, I'm sure they are so hard to spot.

 

My goodness, let's not give humans tattoos because someone may confuse them with norn.

Poor norn will lose their uniqueness. 

 

16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes and yes, although I'm not sure what the relevance here is 😄

Because some people may be arguing in this thread how much they don't want humans to have tattoos , and don't even have norn characters. 

It's not your case; you said yes to both.

[Sobx.1758]

51 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Is this suppose to be funny?

No, it's supposed to be true.

Quote

Is this suppose to be coherent? 

I said it means nothing, yes.

We both know what I meant. You're just playing hardball. 

It is supposed to be coherent, but I guess I'll re-explain:

You wrote: "Culture, Lifestyle, Hobbies, Habits, Environment, Traits, etc... defines a race, definitely not tattoos." as meaningful things defining a race.

Norn tattoos are part of norn culture. Therefore, it's something you've deemed as meaningful while "defining a race".

Even though you've indirectly previously defined it as meaningful -because it is part of their culture- you subsequently tried to sweep it as "nothing".

 

Is there still something unclear about what that sentence was supposed to mean?

Quote

So size, hairstyle, facial features, etc etc isn't enough to differentiate norn from humans?

No, it is not enough. I see no value in bluring more lines between the ingame races. It's not some competition to me where we're supposed to keep bluring the line and check for how long we can find differences. More differences is better. Bluring the lines is worse.

Quote

Because some people may be arguing in this thread how much they don't want humans to have tattoos , and don't even have norn characters. 

It's not your case; you said yes to both.

Ok.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[The Greyhawk.9107]

5 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Just gonna leave this here...

Oh man, I LOVED these back in the day!  There was a spate of GW "machinima" youtubers back towards the end of the 2000s, around when the general machinima fad was wrapping up.  One of them was Greg Heier (or gheier) the original creator of this and a bunch of other GW comedic videos, best one was "If Guild Wars was an Anime". Look it up now it's still the funniest thing on the internet.

Edit: what am I thinking, I can post videos too. Here, watch it now!

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by The Greyhawk.9107

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

4 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Humans in Tyria aren't the same as humans on earth, Tattoos never caught on.

250 years ago, every human monk on Tyria had tattoos.  It does seem odd that they just vanished from human society in the intervening years.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

3 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

250 years ago, every human monk on Tyria had tattoos.  It does seem odd that they just vanished from human society in the intervening years.

Well, to be fair, Monks as they existed 250 years ago no longer exist either.  We still have "priests" and "priestesses" for the Six but they explicitly aren't capable of all that the Monk profession was, most aren't really any different from real world clergy in ability and function.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, it's supposed to be true.

It is supposed to be coherent, but I guess I'll re-explain:

You wrote: "Culture, Lifestyle, Hobbies, Habits, Environment, Traits, etc... defines a race, definitely not tattoos." as meaningful things defining a race.

Norn tattoos are part of norn culture. Therefore, it's something you've deemed as meaningful while "defining a race".

Even though you've indirectly previously defined it as meaningful -because it is part of their culture- you subsequently tried to sweep it as "nothing".

You were trying to use that as the main reason to try convey why humans should not have tattoos. 

So yes, that very tiny short quote from norn using and displaying tattoos isn't a valid reason why humans shouldn't have some different tattoos of their own.

So yes, hence why it doesn’t mean anything.

 

Example: because Charr naturally have horns, you are saying that people should not buy the dragon horns, devil horns, etc from trading post; nor use any helmets of any kind with horns!?

 

Same thing with tattoos. 

Again, no one is saying to use the very same tattoos that norn use.

There are a vast amount of different tattoos. 

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

Is there still something unclear about what that sentence was supposed to mean?

You can't blame me, when you composed that sentence the way you did.

Anyways, moving on.

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, it is not enough. I see no value in bluring more lines between the ingame races. It's not some competition to me where we're supposed to keep bluring the line and check for how long we can find differences. More differences is better. Bluring the lines is worse.

Ok.

True.

I agree.

However, there are many other ways to differentiate races other than tattoos. 

Again, humans use tattoos too. Not just norn.

Norn use celtic tattoos. Let them be.

Imagine Thieves or Necromancers would like to have a Viper snake tattoo on their arm, or a Spider, Skull, scorpion, etc.

Just to give some examples.