Harbinger shouldn't be allowed to wear celestial gear

[ASP.8093]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:12 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

Absolutely destroyed a Reaper from a known EU K-train guild this night, so the guy decided to come back on his condition set with Harbinger and suddenly a guy who was less skilled destroyed me... seems like double cleanse sigil and 5s of projectile hate is no longer an option. Funny how when Anet decides to remove condi Core/Scourge from the roaming/pvp scene is exactly at the same time Harbinger is introduced to the game.

Not OP at all, as some people of this subforum would say, Marauder stats are the same than Celestial and Trailblazer.

It's very easy for some builds to end up overpowered/overperforming in this game, but I find it funny how often people are like, "yeah, so I pasted this enemy playing a build with obvious glaring weaknesses, and then the same player came back with a different build — it's very clear I was defeated by someone with OBVIOUSLY LOWER SKILL!" (If someone of equal or greater skill deleted you with an OP build, would that be better?)

Like, come on. Reaper is easy pickings for a lot of standard roaming builds: if you have any kind of good ranged pressure, the whole time they're fighting you they're basically doomed unless they land a lucky Spinal Shivers; ditto if you have strong CC it's very easy to burn down their health.

[Telgum.6071]

6 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Like, come on. Reaper is easy pickings for a lot of standard roaming builds:

It has little to do with build advantage, in a few seconds of combat you can guess how good someone is with certain classes, specially high ceiling stuff like Herald, Tempest or even Soulbeast. I like this last example because you can find people that only knows how to land the SicEm combo and people who will go on full damage setup and won't allow you to touch them even on mele. And this reaper was the first kind of soulbeast, but on Reaper.

[Ragnarox.9601]

2 Things are broken on harbinger, shroud #5 skill and condi damage + boons on himself.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Ragnarox.9601

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

2 Things are broken on harbinger, shroud #5 skill and condi damage + boons on himself.

 

No class should have the option to apply all boons instantly on demand. Its not the armor set, its boon application that's the issue, in my opinion. 

[SleepyBat.9034]

Boons are only part of the problem, use my build as an example.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABoid3lhy8YqMLWLW0OvRVA-z1IY14vMysq6NVd/QEk/WofaDA-w

There are many things that make this build extremely strong.

1. All the pulsing boons. Might, Fury, Quickness, Protection are the main ones.
2. The Weakness spam.
3. The Boon Corruptions.
4. High amount of Condition Cleanse.
5. The amount of Conditions Harbinger skills apply.
6. The stats. Celestial gear gives lots of stats, the reason this is an issue for Harbinger is that many of the core necromancer trait-lines have many traits that also give extra stats. With the example build I've supplied.

• Furious Demise: +180 Precision
• Target the Weak: Precision Converted Into Condition Damage 13% / Critical Chance increase per condition on your foe: 2% (Between 0-18% on this build)
• Deadly Strength: +10 power per stack of carapace (Up to 300 extra power)
• Carapace: +20 Toughness per stack (Up to 600 extra toughness)
• Alchemic Vigor: +240 Vitality
• Implacable Foe: 13% of Vitality converted to Ferocity or Twisted Medicine: 13% of Vitality converted to Concentration or Dark Gunslinger: 13% of Vitality converted to Expertise
• Cascading Corruption: +240 power or Doom Approaches: +240 condition damage.
• And of course 25 stacks of might which gives a cool +750 condition damage and +750 power.

And that's not even to mention Superior Rune of Aristocracy which gives a decent +175 condition damage and 50% might duration(with celestial that's max duration btw).

 

So as you can see, it's not just the boons.

Edit: I forgot, it has all that and still has easy access to two stunbreaks and good mobility.

Edited August 29, 2022 by SleepyBat.9034
Forgot about Boon Corruptions and Condition Cleanse.

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 8/23/2022 at 8:00 AM, kmfart.7480 said:

Then perhaps PvP is more your gaming style, they don't have much gear options anymore, so now u can win again. Perhaps they could also remove enemy weapons for you, so you can feel safe again.

^^^^ Agree 

[AlCapwnd.7834]

5 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

No class should have the option to apply all boons instantly on demand. Its not the armor set, its boon application that's the issue, in my opinion. 

They have a big cool down, so it isnt "on Demand" .  Kite them out once they pop elite.

[Guirssane.7082]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:00 PM, kmfart.7480 said:

Then perhaps PvP is more your gaming style, they don't have much gear options anymore, so now u can win again. Perhaps they could also remove enemy weapons for you, so you can feel safe again.

You're funny, but it doesn't invalidate my point tho 🙂

Edited August 29, 2022 by Guirssane.7082

[Ragnarox.9601]

when I see harbinger I just start the fight, when I see experienced necro player playing it I just teleport out, no point fighting stelemate fight as my tempest/Catalyst, same with bladesworn and their insane regen and dmg.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/29/2022 at 4:54 PM, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

They have a big cool down, so it isnt "on Demand" .  Kite them out once they pop elite.

 

I am not just talking about roaming. When you have any class that provide all boons on 5 players on demand that is what makes boon balls all the more of an issue. Boons and banes (corruption/strips/conversions) are out of balance and have been for a while.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

everything beats garbinger, as long as u put dmg into it it will die. it cannot do anything without going into 900 range at leasttoo

like idk why anyone would care about worst necro specs in wvw. the powerranking for necros is

 

scourge -> core -> reaper -> harb

 

or for smaller scale maybe

core -> reaper -> scourge -> harb

i shotted enough random harbingers with my zergbuild powerscourge, the class itself is just not good anymore. it has been during beta, but all the nerfs made it basically a walking meme that can only 2v1 effectively, and it matters about zero percent what gear u put on this

[Sahne.6950]

Press X to doubt.

[ASP.8093]

10 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

it cannot do anything without going into 900 range at leasttoo

Harb has multiple gap closers.

[Zyreva.1078]

7 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

Harb has multiple gap closers.

And the same range as any other necro spec (up to 1,2k with staff/focus, 900 on most other stuff) ...

No point in discussing with certain narrow-minded people, who love to comment on stuff they have very obviously no clue about nor show any interest in broadening their horizon.

Edited September 16, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Sahne.6950]

guys.... he said that he oneshots Harbingers with powerscourge! he is obviously a superior gamer! We cant battle his divine knowledge!

Edited September 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 8/23/2022 at 7:24 AM, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

IME a lot of cele harbinger players are remarkably ignorant they're playing a busted build, and get super offended if you point it out. Kinda like the ones in here.

Yet cele catalyst is fine?  Or condi tempest? Or cele specter? Or Bladesworn?   I could keep l listing things.  No one is offended people are crying that celestial is hard to fight.  But don't kid yourself that it's the only thing broken in wvw.

[SleepyBat.9034]

44 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Yet cele catalyst is fine?  Or condi tempest? Or cele specter? Or Bladesworn?   I could keep l listing things.  No one is offended people are crying that celestial is hard to fight.  But don't kid yourself that it's the only thing broken in wvw.

Yes it's not the only broken thing in WvW but it's at the top of the list so we're dealing with it first. I have since disowned it as my main after attempting to fight some on Holosmith.

[MedievalThings.5417]

40 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Yes it's not the only broken thing in WvW but it's at the top of the list so we're dealing with it first. I have since disowned it as my main after attempting to fight some on Holosmith.

I main scrapper but play a mix of necro, thief, ele, and mesmer in wvw too.  The most broken thing in wvw atm is bladesworn, followed closely by cele specter.  

[SleepyBat.9034]

21 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

I main scrapper but play a mix of necro, thief, ele, and mesmer in wvw too.  The most broken thing in wvw atm is bladesworn, followed closely by cele specter.  

It's up there but I wouldn't consider it more broken then Harbinger or Mechanist.

Most broken Eod specs.

1. Harbinger
2. Mechanist
3. Bladesworn
4. Willbender
5. Catalyst
6. Vindicator

Edited September 16, 2022 by SleepyBat.9034

[MedievalThings.5417]

8 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

It's up there but I wouldn't consider it more broken then Harbinger or Mechanist.

Most broken Eod specs.

1. Harbinger
2. Mechanist
3. Bladesworn
4. Willbender
5. Catalyst
6. Vindicator

Harbinger and mechanist are both free kills, especially as a scrapper, or even core mesmer, cele specter, etc.  Bladesworn ignores blocks and blinds and can full heal every 3 seconds roughly.  Willbenders do a lot of damage, but are mostly just for running away.  Catalyst and vindicator would probably be 2 and 3 on this list, right beneath bladesworn.

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Harbinger and mechanist are both free kills, especially as a scrapper, or even core mesmer, cele specter, etc.  Bladesworn ignores blocks and blinds and can full heal every 3 seconds roughly.  Willbenders do a lot of damage, but are mostly just for running away.  Catalyst and vindicator would probably be 2 and 3 on this list, right beneath bladesworn.

What build are you running on Scrapper that makes them free kills? You must not be fighting the good ones if you think that.

[MedievalThings.5417]

1 hour ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

What build are you running on Scrapper that makes them free kills? You must not be fighting the good ones if you think that.

Rifle scrapper.  Also not having any trouble killing them as core engineer with grenades (pistol/shield).

Edited September 16, 2022 by Ubi.4136

[lotus.5672]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:21 AM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

joke thread once again. i checked the arcdps stats many times, whenever there's a harbinger in squad, u can be lucky if he's even above the support classes on their minstrel gear in terms of dps output lul

 

cele gear with the extra stats is annoying for full handkite bunkers who basically focus on running across half of the map

 

but harbinger is worst necro specs existing yet, so idk. and celestial is only for roaming, so w/e, why even wasting a thought on that.

 

there's like 200 roamingbuilds that could/should be nerfed into oblivion, especially condibunkers and other selfish sustain. just anet seems to not react at all towards these kinda builds, they only try to destroy group comps and buff numbers, so random garbo blobs win against zergs even by now in many cases, if u dont manage to split them up and kite them over a 10k distance

 

so ye, balance is quite sh#t atm, gg balance team.

You are so far removed from how wvw actually plays its not even funny.

Now go follow your boonball and dont forget to pop that bubble and superspeed little timmy!

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

16 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Yet cele catalyst is fine?  Or condi tempest? Or cele specter? Or Bladesworn?   I could keep l listing things.  No one is offended people are crying that celestial is hard to fight.  But don't kid yourself that it's the only thing broken in wvw.

Whataboutism and strawman arguments at their finest.

Or do point to where I kid myself by saying cele harb is the only thing broken in WvW.

And how would you know whether anyone is offended at being told cele harb is busted unless you were part of the DMs I've had with said players in game?

[SleepyBat.9034]

23 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Rifle scrapper.  Also not having any trouble killing them as core engineer with grenades (pistol/shield).

Yeah no, you're not fighting any good Death Magic Harbingers if you think that build makes them free kills.