Hammer sucks

[brandies.8673]

I'm trying hard to like it but skills just feel thrown together like a kitchen sink, just feels bad.

I don't like the circular projectiles at all, makes me feel like I have to be in melee range, which is not what I want.

Why do water and earth attunements have no ranged skills?

Why does this weapon even exist on what the website describes as a "ranged caster"?

Just a terribly designed weapon IMO.

</feedback>

Edited August 27, 2022 by brandies.8673

[PolarBear.3961]

Yeh for some stupid reason devs just looove to make elementalist elite specs meelee frontline fighters... the class with no HP and no armor 😅😓😭

[scerevisiae.1972]

Yes, hammer does indeed suck.

And you're not alone in thinking so, every poll  conducted on hammer has proven as a whole, the community thinks it sucks too.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/109394-how-would-you-rate-catalyst/

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/102004-rate-catalyst

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by scerevisiae.1972

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Most of the skills are fine, but the orb mechanic not only consuming four skill slots but also not being integrated into the class mechanic and working with other weapons is the major problem.

 

Think about what else could've gone into those slots instead. Weaver and Thief say hello.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[giblets.6401]

I also hate it. Hated it so much I refunded my pre-purchase of EOD. No regrets.

[crosknight.3041]

plenty of wrong with the catalyst on the design front and hammer is just part of the much larger problem.

having to shift in and out of melee and short ranged ranged is tedious and they should just have made it 600 range across the board

hammer 3 is just Weave Self with extra steps, replace them and put something more meaningful there. you can move the orbs to work with the augment utilities and the spheres.

no field skills on the hammer itself, especially bad for fire (Persisting Flames trait in fire grandmaster loses half of its value since that trait increases duration of fire fields made by weapon skills)

hammer water skills 4 is the only heal on that kit and requires you to hit enemies to do so, same with the condi cleanse on water hammer 5

air is mostly fine, the self knockback on air 4 is more annoying then the NPCs by the the trading post in arborstone (and they are REALLY annoying)

hammer 4 in earth only blocks ONE attack. a nitpick compared to the others but none-the less it annoys me

[ippy.9048]

i think you guys better to play other classes...

Cata is now on meta, after lots of  adjustments.

and really fun to play Cata.

 

you have to note, in GW2, Elementalist is Elementalist. not WIZARD.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

11 hours ago, crosknight.3041 said:

plenty of wrong with the catalyst on the design front and hammer is just part of the much larger problem.

having to shift in and out of melee and short ranged ranged is tedious and they should just have made it 600 range across the board

hammer 3 is just Weave Self with extra steps, replace them and put something more meaningful there. you can move the orbs to work with the augment utilities and the spheres.

no field skills on the hammer itself, especially bad for fire (Persisting Flames trait in fire grandmaster loses half of its value since that trait increases duration of fire fields made by weapon skills)

hammer water skills 4 is the only heal on that kit and requires you to hit enemies to do so, same with the condi cleanse on water hammer 5

air is mostly fine, the self knockback on air 4 is more annoying then the NPCs by the the trading post in arborstone (and they are REALLY annoying)

hammer 4 in earth only blocks ONE attack. a nitpick compared to the others but none-the less it annoys me

It seems like the devs were intending for you to only use Fire/Air on damage builds and Water/Earth on tanky builds. They don't seem to have a clear picture of how Elementailst actually works.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

13 hours ago, ippy.9048 said:

i think you guys better to play other classes...

Cata is now on meta, after lots of  adjustments.

and really fun to play Cata.

 

you have to note, in GW2, Elementalist is Elementalist. not WIZARD.

Alright, this guy wrote that Craptalyst is meta, so your arguments are now invalid. 
Just because the whole elite specialization is just pure garbage from the very design level and that in reality it's just core + F5field, it doesn't matter because it's meta. You have to gitgut and love that trash and praise A-net as per protocol.
/s

[Guirssane.7082]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Alright, this guy wrote that Craptalyst is meta, so your arguments are now invalid. 
Just because the whole elite specialization is just pure garbage from the very design level and that in reality it's just core + F5field, it doesn't matter because it's meta. You have to gitgut and love that trash and praise A-net as per protocol.
/s

Just play weaver xd

[SamuelW.2685]

I haven't played Catalyst, and I probably never will, but I'm inclined to agree, it feels too "techy" I guess you could say. The whole "Master cutting-edge Canthan technology" in the text block for cata is a huge turn off, and I get GW2 is Science Fantasy as all hell, but c'mon, it's been established that Ele is THE Mage, THE Bread and Butter caster, lot's of other classes already mix Science and Magic, why couldn't we just have a Bow-mage instead? Something that, while unorthodox, could still work as a standard Mage.

Another reason why hammer gets to me specifically, Weaver was melee (and is so uselessly complex you might as well play Tempest, my Tempest gets more damage then my Weaver anyway), why did we get another melee spec for the Mage class? I can EASILY see a Bow Mage being a thing, hell we have the frost bow anyway.

 

[Sporks.4395]

900 range in fire and air and it's a decent weapon. Catalyst really sucks because of the traits. Hammer raw damage is really high, so if you want to take quickness, you lose 10% damage (stupid). Now every other weapon Catalyst can have on a quick build is trash. It's not like hammer is really awful, it's that the traits you need to take and the ridiculous amount of RnG and skill you need to utilize said traits (20% ONLY if you have max stacks on a weapon that requires close range and combo's to get it) is garbage design. In the real world, that means you need to run with a tempest just to do slightly less damage than a bladesworn, untamed, virtuoso, spectre, harbringer... You get the point. The elite spec traits need reworked. Hammer needs range. 900/600 would be fine for I think. Or even 900/360. Just let air and fire reach out there some. Nerf the damage slightly, fix the traits so that they actually let you utilize them in most environments, let you gain energy while in a sphere, and the class would be ok. 

[Polar.8634]

U hate hammer for being melee/small range. Why should hammer be ranged in the first place, there is staff for range. Hammer is good, and something like cele cats is very durable in pve and competitive. Also don't underestimate the cleave it has 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Polar.8634

[ippy.9048]

i say again. 

do another ranged job, not elementalist.

 

for some reason, elementalist is not ranged job now.

if you guys have to stick to that image ( elementalist is wizard, so, should be ranged ), you will be never happy as ele.

 

CHANGE YOUR JOB and ENJOY.

[Jitz.2506]

On 8/27/2022 at 11:35 AM, PolarBear.3961 said:

Yeh for some stupid reason devs just looove to make elementalist elite specs meelee frontline fighters... the class with no HP and no armor 😅😓😭

this one point always makes me lol. its a good enough proof that anet doesnt know jackshit about what they wanna do. they dont balance hp/armor but they still wanna keep ele dps below the highest def classes.

 

every other (mmo)rpg will have a reverse relation between hp/def and dps, but not gw2.

[ippy.9048]

i understand you guys just love "brain-dead simple" elementalist, and just want to be a monkey beating "one button" and win.

so, you guys really better change your main job.

 

for the first place, ele is most difficult class.

dev want ele to be most difficult class.

that's why we have lowest HP and lowest armor, and lots of skills doing small effects.

 

if you guys cannot control Ele, do another job.

this is it.

SIMPLE.

[Antycypator.9874]

Catalyst is really fun in Open World, but it's literally a "panic mode" gameplay where I'm just unloading every skill possible hoping to outheal incoming damage by having Signet of Restoration in Healing slot.

[Zunki.3916]

TLDR: Hammer is not the problem, all other weapons not working on catalyst is the problem.

I dont really see the problem in the hammer itself. I dont really want to play sword on weaver but the point is I do not have to! Staff weaver is good, scepter and dagger also good. 

The problem really is Catalyst in itself not feeling very flexible with using other weapons. Where are the dagger, staff and scepter catalyst builds? We can do at least some of these without feeling big losses on tempest and weaver but cata seems to lock you in hammer, which is why I simply cannot enjoy it.

Unreliable 20% attribute boost + 10% dmg is still worse buffs then what weaver offers in condi scenarios. Weapon swapping being mandatory works for condi on many weapons (as fire and earth on many weapons offer nice condi dmg), but the stat boost is better for power then condi and balanced around power. Since hammer is the only weapon providing good dmg on several attunements, this made all other weapons look terrible.

The design philosophy change, that air, water and earth (and not only fire) should do respectable power dmg is not really implemented in core weapons, that's only available on elite weapons. The staff buffs were a first step, but not enough as air, earth and water AA do insanely kitten dps, it's not even funny how low they are.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Zunki.3916

[scerevisiae.1972]

17 minutes ago, Zunki.3916 said:

TLDR: Hammer is not the problem, all other weapons not working on catalyst is the problem.

I dont really see the problem in the hammer itself. I dont really want to play sword on weaver but the point is I do not have to! Staff weaver is good, scepter and dagger also good. 

The problem really is Catalyst in itself not feeling very flexible with using other weapons. Where are the dagger, staff and scepter catalyst builds?

Yeah this. There is extra focus on hammer because catalyst is core Ele plus a field, that's it. It sucks with sceptre, sucks with staff, it's ok with dagger but tempest is better.

It's just a fail design across the board.

Hammer definitely IS part of the problem though because its range is so limited and AOEs are so small and have to be manually aimed/placed even when only 600 range that hammer can only ever be good versus things that don't move much (PVE golems/bosses) or where the enemy is obliged to come to you (capture points & duels).

I think if hammer had 600 range (non-aimed) cone AOEs in water/earth and maybe air 2/fire 4 were 900 range it would be fine, even if it got some dmg nerfs to compensate.

Something else needs to be done to catalyst traits/mechanics to differentiate it from core ele, but not sure what.

[Zunki.3916]

On 8/29/2022 at 3:54 PM, scerevisiae.1972 said:

Something else needs to be done to catalyst traits/mechanics to differentiate it from core ele, but not sure what.

It also feels horrible that we have to invest 3!!! traits to make the attribute boosting even possible and viable, but even then it's harder to keep it up then weaver buffs. What were they thinking? Give empowered empowerment a 33% boost on the duration so it actually means something.

There are so many disable skills that are >15s cd and therefore building a proper rotation around them is kinda meh. With 20s this would get already a lot easier.

And like said so many times before: Just double the attribute boost, no need to have max stacks for it.

[raykor.6723]

I just started learning Catalyst and yea, hammer is not that impressive. Not that impressed with the specialization in general but I'm still learning it.

[nucklepuckk.1805]

Literally every thread in the Elementalist forum comes down to "I want to be wizard with staff camp fire plz Anet." Sometimes it's veiled behind something thin like this, most of the time it's not. But it is everywhere and it is eternal.

Clearly wizard is not the theme that Arena Net has in mind for Elementalist. All three of their elite specializations: Tempest, Weaver, and Catalyst - literally SEVEN years of designing and redesigning and iterating on how they want Elementalist to play - and none of them are wizard. Elementalists are not thematically wizards.

It is clear that they are inspired by things like Shamans, like Spellswords, and so on, and the sooner all of you recognize this, the less self harm you'll inflict.

If you want to be the ranged magic pewpew class, play Mesmer. Between Greatsword, Staff, Scepter, and now Dagger, they deliver on that fantasy and gameplay loop so much more than Elementalist has ever even tried. The wizard inspired class all of you _constantly_ whine about is in the game. It's just not Elementalist.

Edited August 31, 2022 by nucklepuckk.1805

[Serephen.3420]

1 hour ago, nucklepuckk.1805 said:

Literally every thread in the Elementalist forum comes down to "I want to be wizard with staff camp fire plz Anet." Sometimes it's veiled behind something thin like this, most of the time it's not. But it is everywhere and it is eternal.

 

Clearly wizard is not the theme that Arena Net has in mind for Elementalist. All three of their elite specializations Tempest, Weaver, and Catalyst - literally SEVEN years of designing and redesigning and iterating on how they want Elementalist to play - and none of them are wizard. Elementalists are not thematically wizards. 

 

It is clear that they are inspired by things like Shaman, and the sooner all of you recognize this, the less self harm you'll inflict.

If you want to be the ranged magic pewpew play Mesmer. They deliver on that fantasy and gameplay loop so much more than Elementalist ever even tried.

Thank you for saying what needed to be said.

[Zunki.3916]

2 hours ago, nucklepuckk.1805 said:

Literally every thread in the Elementalist forum comes down to "I want to be wizard with staff camp fire plz Anet." Sometimes it's veiled behind something thin like this, most of the time it's not. But it is everywhere and it is eternal.

 

Clearly wizard is not the theme that Arena Net has in mind for Elementalist. All three of their elite specializations Tempest, Weaver, and Catalyst - literally SEVEN years of designing and redesigning and iterating on how they want Elementalist to play - and none of them are wizard. Elementalists are not thematically wizards. 

 

It is clear that they are inspired by things like Shaman, and the sooner all of you recognize this, the less self harm you'll inflict.

If you want to be the ranged magic pewpew play Mesmer. They deliver on that fantasy and gameplay loop so much more than Elementalist ever even tried.

I still remember the initial presentation of the elementalist. 
I agree with you that they ofc dont actively support the fantasy any longer, but I have initially chosen my main and only character in this game from what I had been given by anet at launch. I wont change my char at this point, Id rather stop. That being said, I think it's not so bad currently. I can play many specs in raids that are totally inside the caster fantasy. They arent meta, but they are viable and not trolling so I'm fine with that.

But still, it's not entierly the players fault for wanting what they teased us in the first place 😉 

They never went there and openly stated "The elementalist is no longer the caster we promised you on release. Our vision is to priotize it as a high complexity melee bruiser class only". They never talked about it this way. Ofc ppl are wishing the next elite spec goes back to that fantasy because that fantasy never died and never got openly discontinued. That's just how many humans work.

An argument like "It is clear that they are [nowadays] inspired by shaman" is not the most satisfying coming from a player. Anet should be communicating such things openly in a design manifesto and clear the topic for everyone.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Zunki.3916

[PolarBear.3961]

Core ele can be ranged or meelee but all the elites are FORCED into meele... They could make Tempest overloads  be targeted ranged aoes insted of meelee self target aoes and that would actually make Tempest into a ranged mage but no they HAVE TO be MEELEE and i just dont get why ?! Weaver is a magic MEELEE swordsman and catalist is... what is catalist xD