one sided and "win-trade" match explained

[felix.2386]

for i have been played inside 1600 bracket to 1300 bracket, there's a pattern i noticed.

when i'm 1600, i get matched with gold 3 players,

i thought i would get fair gold 3 matches when i'm gold 3, but i get matched with gold 1 players instead, with some times i get matched with 1600-1500 matches.

 

for example

1600 has one player

1500 has two players

1400 has two players

 

 

1600 will be matched with one of the two 1500 players, which result in a one sided match, else 1600 won't find any match,

 

so then the one 1500 player left will be matched with 1400 player, which also result in one sided match,

 

i believe this is the reason why it is one sided a lot of times.

 

and the same reason why people think wintrade is popular.

 

because people expect to be climbing if they hold their own by running gimmick cheese builds, but you still keep losing, there must be win traders right.

but in fact you actually need to hard carry the team in order to progress, most cheese braindead build does not carry very much.

as your teammate is not same rating as you, but 2 tiers lower or higher,

so you either get hard carried, or you have to hard carry to win,

when you are matched with higher tier player, that's when running cheese braindead build would work, because it helps you to hold on your own so higher tier player can have an easier time carrying you in a higher tier match.

but in a lower-then-yourself tier match, you have to the be one who run hard carry build instead of gimmick cheese build, as gimmick cheese build does not have the same carry potential as actual play maker carries.

 

that's why top rating you see are power heralds, thieves, specters, untamed, etc. these are play makers.

instead of like memey trap condi soulbeast, one shot soulbeast, rifle mech, signet virtuoso, anything bunker that have a hard time shutting off enemies instead it slowly wears enemy down and does not walk very fast etc.

you will most likely stuck forever at top 250 and maybe lucky top100 if you get lucky and get favored by meta in one season, but never able to maintain or progress consistently.

(i see a lot of people call themselves p1 p2 players but they are only mid gold 3 most of the times, that's called getting favored by meta in one season and got lucky)

 

from personal experience there's no point in win trading outside of top25 and that's being generous as you can get top10 if you just have a good duoq.

i can say there's probably 20 accounts, maybe 30 if stretch a bit in top100 are alts, not including cross region players.

 

tbh there's most likely minimum trade/buy right now as people who would trade/buy already got what they want, and is quite known lol

and people who didn't trade/buy won't trade/buy, because if they would, they would've done it years ago as the player base is quite fixed at this point.

unless there's new player who comes in and trade/buy.

but come on, it's already so many years. lol

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

The win trading & throw phases are definitely very real my dude.

Especially during the final week of the season 120 game req.

[youle.5824]

I have more than 10k ranked games and saw only once a confirmed guaranteed attemp at wintrading from a player, saw some shady afk but thats not enough to call wintrading. On the other hand roughly every 10 game there is a Trevor like player calling wintrading when his team gets snowballed and some player on his team decides to afk after feeding 1v3 a few times. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by youle.5824

[Lysico.4906]

Youle. Nailed it

[Shao.7236]

I've got multiple people trying to negotiate with me before the start of a match, wintrading does exist.

I'd say the bigger problem is people playing on alt accounts trying to protect their precious rating while hindering the rest of the competition.

It's no coincidence that those individuals are the least interesting to play against whenever the game hits the bottom of the barrel in term of balance vs effort, so much so these players kinda reach a point where they can't even tell in between.

I could easily pull up a list of top players that play on their alts on a daily if not paranoid basis of their rating, but that's not allowed.

[Khalisto.5780]

pretty much, plus all the duos q dodging each other doesnt help that much

 

many times i have to face 1600+ duo, as a solo plat 1 player, the second best in my team is clearly a gold 2 player, if I get a gold 3 player we'll prolly beat 80% of those duos, cuz they're clearly gold 3 players exploiting to higher ranks, but solo I cant beat them, even if I'm individually better than both of em

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

To us sPvP people wintrading is practically synonymous with match manipulation in general, and wintrading is a form of match manipulation.

Its also probably the highest effort way to go about it too, and the least common form of match manipulation overall. 

 

More often its metagaming that leads to match-fixing in Ranked

Not playing the most optimal build kind of metagaming either, but selecting or creating an optimal playing strategy using means outside of the game itself to affect the outcome of a match.

Like no; technically the legend DuoQ'd at 4am with their silver-rated friend on a smurf, class-swapping 10-20 times before a match starts, and queue-dodging anyone close to anything resembling competition isn't wintrading. It is however just as lame as wintrading and has the same effect on the competitive ladder, killing it.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Multicolorhipster.9751

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I'd say the bigger problem is people playing on alt accounts trying to protect their precious rating while hindering the rest of the competition.

Yeah it was the worst this season I've ever seen. I mean it was BAD. The amount of alt phases of guys just trolling around on alts, waiting to catch top 50s in games so they can throw on them, was astonishing.

I mean I guess it makes sense. It's easier to catch someone and make them eat -25 or more on a loss than it is to play your main up with +2s on wins.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, youle.5824 said:

I have more than 10k ranked games and saw only once a confirmed guaranteed attemp at wintrading from a player, saw some shady afk but thats not enough to call wintrading. On the other hand roughly every 10 game there is a Trevor like player calling wintrading when his team gets snowballed and some player on his team decides to afk after feeding 1v3 a few times. 

lol

I love how the only people who come in here and say things like this, are the ones who very visibly are "participating".

Youle, you are like the quintessential perfect example of what goes on in this game. Here you sit all season bouncing around in the top 20 with your main & alt, yet somehow you get crunched by any competent player that rolls over you. I mean seriously, you go down into the ffa and I see bottom plats just roll all over you with an amalgam of different classes, yet you've consistently rode very high rating margins this entire season.

I mean if you want to poke at me I'll throw some truth at you. Judging from your actual performance when engaging you in 1v1s or team fights, if you were to organic queue, you would be a top gold 3 that might hover into bottom plat 1 at best. You'd never break 1550 without metagaming & larping.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Saddest part is I'm guessing most the top 100 run with statics anyway due to how the matcher works.  Pure Solo Q none of you make it out of gold lol

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Saddest part is I'm guessing most the top 100 run with statics anyway due to how the matcher works.  Pure Solo Q none of you make it out of gold lol

Pure SoloQ top 100 is possible, done it multiple times now and off meta. I'm not going to deny that the problems are non existent though, they're quite real in fact.

[Khalisto.5780]

8 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Saddest part is I'm guessing most the top 100 run with statics anyway due to how the matcher works.  Pure Solo Q none of you make it out of gold lol

top 100 now is what 1530, it's always been achievable solo, even when it was 1600, you just have to q dodge, or play only prime time

[Sindrener.1592]

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

lol

I love how the only people who come in here and say things like this, are the ones who very visibly are "participating".

Youle, you are like the quintessential perfect example of what goes on in this game. Here you sit all season bouncing around in the top 20 with your main & alt, yet somehow you get crunched by any competent player that rolls over you. I mean seriously, you go down into the ffa and I see bottom plats just roll all over you with an amalgam of different classes, yet you've consistently rode very high rating margins this entire season.

I mean if you want to poke at me I'll throw some truth at you. Judging from your actual performance when engaging you in 1v1s or team fights, if you were to organic queue, you would be a top gold 3 that might hover into bottom plat 1 at best. You'd never break 1550 without metagaming & larping.

Seeing you stream im surprised you ever got above g3 tbh

[greedywholesome.9081]

One of the nicest things that happened with the Steam integration was that ROM got to stream for a few days. The first couple of days he took the time to explain to newer players the basics of conquest, map rotation and so forth. He was polite to his teammates and opponents. I also like the fact that he doesn't use gizmos, titles, rank badge; it's just an incredibly humble gesture. 

 

During his streams, he did duoQ - but does that make him a match manipulator? My guess is 'no' on the premise of how he treats other people. 

 

Don't you find the no badge/gizmo/title yet godlike in-game admirable?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, Indecipherable.3621 said:

Seeing you stream im surprised you ever got above g3 tbh

Big talk coming from someone who's reputation has been soiled so hard from being exposed paying for boosting in both GW2 and WoW.

Should I link the videos? Eh, nah, I'm sure everyone remembers.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Valfar.3761]

I've played 500 ranked games over the past four-five months, sitting at around silver 2 with a 50% winrate. I've seen maybe two or three games where a team spent the whole game sitting in base. I've certainly seen dozens of matches where there is an AFKer (or worse, a player who is moving around but deliberately throwing the game and dying over and over and has the audacity to call the rest of us kitten), but very few ranked games were an entire team threw.

 

The automated tournaments, however, are infested with teams that AFK in base. Anyone can create a tourney group in LFG and expect to walk away with at least 10 to 15 gold in half an hour because at least 1 or 2 teams you get matched up against won't even try. Then again, you can make almost as much money just doing ranked, and ranked gives you ascended shards of glory and PvP league tickets so you mind as well just do that instead.

[felix.2386]

On 9/6/2022 at 5:23 PM, Shao.7236 said:

I've got multiple people trying to negotiate with me before the start of a match, wintrading does exist.

I'd say the bigger problem is people playing on alt accounts trying to protect their precious rating while hindering the rest of the competition.

It's no coincidence that those individuals are the least interesting to play against whenever the game hits the bottom of the barrel in term of balance vs effort, so much so these players kinda reach a point where they can't even tell in between.

I could easily pull up a list of top players that play on their alts on a daily if not paranoid basis of their rating, but that's not allowed.

quite strange i've never gotten any message in attempt to win trade

i've played from g2 to plat 2 to highest top17 that covers a very big range of ratings.

there's definitely a lot of alts in top100 as there's very little people who actually knows how to play this game so it's very easy to get to top100 with any alt soloq,

there's probably like 40 people max who knows how to play pvp in NA and with like 30 alts in top100 and some EU players who comes over, but that's not the same issue as win trade tho. 

alts definitely makes people more toxic as nobody knows who they are so they just show their worst selves. but that's another problem.

[felix.2386]

one of the main problem is that

some people claim that win trading is so populated right now that caused them unable to climb to their deserved rating plat+ rating, and gates them to gold 3 gold 2.

 

but that's not really the case, i've got no trouble climbing to top50 and higher and hover with relative ease soloq.

that's why to us, what some people claim are basically untrue and proved untrue with our own experience.

 

let alone having people negotiating, never encountered any for seasons

[Khalisto.5780]

1 hour ago, felix.2386 said:

one of the main problem is that

some people claim that win trading is so populated right now that caused them unable to climb to their deserved rating plat+ rating, and gates them to gold 3 gold 2.

 

but that's not really the case, i've got no trouble climbing to top50 and higher and hover with relative ease soloq.

that's why to us, what some people claim are basically untrue and proved untrue with our own experience.

 

let alone having people negotiating, never encountered any for seasons

yes, it doesnt happen as much as ppl claim, all this season i got 2 matches i could call wintrade, one dude afking from 350-200 to 390-460, he afk'd till it was impossible to comeback. The other game against top 5 duo, one of their friends were in our team and a player that never said anything or moved dced after 2 mins cuz I guess they didn't want to grief their friend

 

That being said I don't buy this 118-2 records, I don't believe that being good+duo only+q dodge+playing offhours can achiev those numbers

 

IMO duo + q dodge is what ruins the experience for everybody, I don't see why the only 1700+ ppl online should be in the same team, then there're another 2 duos offline, q dodging the better duo and each other, so that's mostly 15 ppl game ruined, cuz all the teams that are facing the duos have very low chance of winning those games.

This video kinda proves how this exploits can carry ppl way higher than they should be
 

 

[felix.2386]

11 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

yes, it doesnt happen as much as ppl claim, all this season i got 2 matches i could call wintrade, one dude afking from 350-200 to 390-460, he afk'd till it was impossible to comeback. The other game against top 5 duo, one of their friends were in our team and a player that never said anything or moved dced after 2 mins cuz I guess they didn't want to grief their friend

 

That being said I don't buy this 118-2 records, I don't believe that being good+duo only+q dodge+playing offhours can achiev those numbers

 

IMO duo + q dodge is what ruins the experience for everybody, I don't see why the only 1700+ ppl online should be in the same team, then there're another 2 duos offline, q dodging the better duo and each other, so that's mostly 15 ppl game ruined, cuz all the teams that are facing the duos have very low chance of winning those games.

This video kinda proves how this exploits can carry ppl way higher than they should be
 

 

yea there are obviously a few win trade here and there, but really it's minimum

but yea, even 118-2 is reasonable if it's 2v2 3v3, just duoq tripleq top25 players with meta builds on mic can easily stomp 99% of the community in 2v2 3v3 without the need to carry anyone.

but if its 5v5, then it's very sus

Edited September 9, 2022 by felix.2386

[Bast.7253]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:11 PM, Khalisto.5780 said:

yes, it doesnt happen as much as ppl claim, all this season i got 2 matches i could call wintrade, one dude afking from 350-200 to 390-460, he afk'd till it was impossible to comeback. The other game against top 5 duo, one of their friends were in our team and a player that never said anything or moved dced after 2 mins cuz I guess they didn't want to grief their friend

 

That being said I don't buy this 118-2 records, I don't believe that being good+duo only+q dodge+playing offhours can achiev those numbers

 

IMO duo + q dodge is what ruins the experience for everybody, I don't see why the only 1700+ ppl online should be in the same team, then there're another 2 duos offline, q dodging the better duo and each other, so that's mostly 15 ppl game ruined, cuz all the teams that are facing the duos have very low chance of winning those games.

This video kinda proves how this exploits can carry ppl way higher than they should be
 

 

 

How’d you go that long on a core staff ele without anyone trying to focus you? It’s like I they’re just ignoring you all match. Invis hacks!

 

Seems like such a weird build… looks fun though.

[Khalisto.5780]

11 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

 

How’d you go that long on a core staff ele without anyone trying to focus you? It’s like I they’re just ignoring you all match. Invis hacks!

 

Seems like such a weird build… looks fun though.

First it's not me

 

I dunno, sometimes he gets focused sometimes he doesnt. 

 

 

[felix.2386]

22 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

 

How’d you go that long on a core staff ele without anyone trying to focus you? It’s like I they’re just ignoring you all match. Invis hacks!

 

Seems like such a weird build… looks fun though.

you'd be surprised how many people just switch target when they see an ele with earth shield,

Edited September 9, 2022 by felix.2386

[Bazsi.2734]

The joys of a withering PvP community... there is some wintrading going on, but with matchmaking constantly sh*tting itself due to the lack of players, constant blowouts and a few e-specs still being ridiculous even 6 months after release... it's actually impossible to tell how much of this is wintrading and how much of it is just not having population.
Why are we still playing this game?

[Vancho.8750]

56 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

The joys of a withering PvP community... there is some wintrading going on, but with matchmaking constantly sh*tting itself due to the lack of players, constant blowouts and a few e-specs still being ridiculous even 6 months after release... it's actually impossible to tell how much of this is wintrading and how much of it is just not having population.
Why are we still playing this game?

It seems that there isn't any other better third person fighting game. There are other MMOs with similar third person view but not the fighting game mechanics with the dodges and defenses or if they have it they come with some kind of MMO baggage tacked on them, so we are stuck on a game that has really good core game feel but not much support or development for it and the other games do not scratch the same itch.

There is dedicated PVP games like Smite but it really doesn't feel the same, there is For Honor but it doesn't work well for larger than 1v1 fights. The souls games come close but they do not have dedicated PVP game for it just extra to the whole game, also not very good server tech for pvp. There is one new game that is quite close Naraka Bladepoint but it is battle royal. The closest game that had similar game feel with the dodges and offensive and defensive skills was Battlerite even though it is top down and not third person, but it died. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Vancho.8750