Mesmer has been out of the meta for nearly 3 years now.

[Leonidrex.5649]

I dont see why mesmer would be good.
Its kind of jack of all trades, kitten in all.
Bad sustain, bad cleanse, medicore mobility, cant hold nodes, cant support the team.
After all the nerfs mesmer boils down to dump all DPS skills as fast as possible and hope someone dies because after 10s you run out of steam and flop dead. Class is so bad it just even feels bad to play.

EDIT
also you can get to play 2 with anything, heck I might try getting to plat 2 with first person camera only.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Leonidrex.5649

[Jojo.6590]

I'm happy to see more people calling this out and picking up on it instead of the same handful of us. The state of Mesmer is greatly due to the class nerfed based on suggestions on these forums from players that have little to no understanding of how what they're requesting will impact the class as a whole. Mesmer lost a lot of its survivability to "balance" Mirage. 

 

Another point to mention give the massive up-roar that came from the discord leaks is that in the private discord the person appointed to represent Mesmer asked when will they make the class competitive again? The lead Devs stated they do NOT like fighting Mesmers and do want want to see it competitive in the PVP/competitive game modes.  This information has been bouncing around on the Mesmer discords for awhile now too.  

 

This then adds a lot of light to the way the profession has been getting "balanced". Most of us can easily argue that the core traits lines as well as the elite traits need full reworks. The state of Chrono is a great example of this. A lot of other professions are able to get both damage and support from one trait line while Mesmer has to choose (trade offs?). 

 

[felix.2386]

15 minutes ago, Jojo.6590 said:

I'm happy to see more people calling this out and picking up on it instead of the same handful of us. The state of Mesmer is greatly due to the class nerfed based on suggestions on these forums from players that have little to no understanding of how what they're requesting will impact the class as a whole. Mesmer lost a lot of its survivability to "balance" Mirage. 

 

not really tho, pre-EoD, the only reason mes is not meta, it is because thief exist and is forever meta.

mirage was completely fine with one dodge against anything but thief.

double dodge mirage basically unkillable god in top end even against top players and had 2 per team in ATs.

 

as long as thief exist, mesmer will never be meta outside of toxic bunker builds and basically compete with 6 other classes, unless they bring back old portal, hopefully cmc bring back old portal, there's 60+% chance he would.

 

[semak.7481]

3 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

not really tho, pre-EoD, the only reason mes is not meta, it is because thief exist and is forever meta.

mirage was completely fine with one dodge against anything but thief.

double dodge mirage basically unkillable god in top end even against top players and had 2 per team in ATs.

 

as long as thief exist, mesmer will never be meta outside of toxic bunker builds and basically compete with 6 other classes, unless they bring back old portal, hopefully cmc bring back old portal, there's 60+% chance he would.

 

Have you convinced yourself of your own lies?

Edited September 10, 2022 by semak.7481

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

not really tho, pre-EoD, the only reason mes is not meta, it is because thief exist and is forever meta.

mirage was completely fine with one dodge against anything but thief.

double dodge mirage basically unkillable god in top end even against top players and had 2 per team in ATs.

 

as long as thief exist, mesmer will never be meta outside of toxic bunker builds and basically compete with 6 other classes, unless they bring back old portal, hopefully cmc bring back old portal, there's 60+% chance he would.

 

you ok brochacho ?
post feb mirage was dying to 2 bird attacks, lost every single 1v1 matchup including kitten like minon mancer that could just kill you by existing.
In fact mirage ( mesmer as its only spec people even touch ) was so kittening kitten that most players legit went back to using power block with mantra and used it like a crutch to live more then 10s.

[Salt Mode.3780]

12 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

not really tho, pre-EoD, the only reason mes is not meta, it is because thief exist and is forever meta.

mirage was completely fine with one dodge against anything but thief.

double dodge mirage basically unkillable god in top end even against top players and had 2 per team in ATs.

 

as long as thief exist, mesmer will never be meta outside of toxic bunker builds and basically compete with 6 other classes, unless they bring back old portal, hopefully cmc bring back old portal, there's 60+% chance he would.

 

Its like you dont even play the game?

[greedywholesome.9081]

Not sure if the original devs that created this class are still around but there was a discussion over discord years ago how mesmers will be constantly kept on check and not overperform because of its high skill floor and potentially unlimited  skill ceiling under good hands. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by greedywholesome.9081

[Xyrony Shush.8457]

3 hours ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

Not sure if the original devs that created this class are still around but there was a discussion over discord years ago how mesmers will be constantly kept on check and not overperform because of its high skill floor and potentially unlimited  skill ceiling under good hands. 

The last dev with a bit of clue about mesmer and no barely hidden hate for that class left around 2018 i would say. Also the "no high skill ceiling wanted"- balance philosophy will make sure mesmer hate will not stop on any lvl.

 

Don't worry mesmer boys, CmC is in the lead now, enjoy one dodge chrono and no distortion mirage and maybe they add 1-2 trade offs to core mesmer too, so that elites do not fall behind core some day

Edited September 11, 2022 by ano nimo.3948

[SlayerXX.7138]

The Big Problem with Mesmer in my opinion is: The class is riddled with mechanics that scale negatively with the skill level of your opponent. Confusion, A lot of on demand invulnerability, Stealth, Clones and a pretty unique 6 sec cc in Moa Signet. Mesmer are an absolute pain to deal with at gold level of play(75% are gold or lower btw).  All that stuff has of course counter play of course. The thing is if Mesmer is on a power level that 10 year old veteran, 200apm player barley can keep up and it becomes best in slot in AT, it lights out for gold players. And everything below gold might as well start afking when the mesmer show up in the opponents team. Mesmer is probably the closest profession to its class fantasy, which makes it a nightmare for the average player to face of. I remember starting PvP and just flat out avoiding to fight Mesmer cause their whole kit punishes inexperience and missing class knowledge.

[Xyrony Shush.8457]

4 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

The Big Problem with Mesmer in my opinion is: The class is riddled with mechanics that scale negatively with the skill level of your opponent. Confusion, A lot of on demand invulnerability, Stealth, Clones and a pretty unique 6 sec cc in Moa Signet. Mesmer are an absolute pain to deal with at gold level of play(75% are gold or lower btw).  All that stuff has of course counter play of course. The thing is if Mesmer is on a power level that 10 year old veteran, 200apm player barley can keep up and it becomes best in slot in AT, it lights out for gold players. And everything below gold might as well start afking when the mesmer show up in the opponents team. Mesmer is probably the closest profession to its class fantasy, which makes it a nightmare for the average player to face of. I remember starting PvP and just flat out avoiding to fight Mesmer cause their whole kit punishes inexperience and missing class knowledge.

I mean yes but the goal when joining a competitive gamemode should always be to improve and get knowledge about other classes and how to beat them. The goal should be to play a game which requires brain and skill (that counts for playing a class and playing against a class actually, means mesmer, outside of the broken builds like bunker stuff and ci mirage, is exactly how it should be) and also having the wish to play a game which doesn't play itself. 

Means, that mesmer requires all of this more than other classes doesn't rly matter, as long as ppl have the correct competitive mind set. When fighting a Warrior is less of a miracle to you then start with mesmer as the first class you want to understand to beat it, instead of avoiding it.

Edited September 11, 2022 by ano nimo.3948

[Faux Play.6104]

It is time to make mesmer great again!

https://i.imgur.com/UA2f5BQ.jpg

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

11 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

The Big Problem with Mesmer in my opinion is: The class is riddled with mechanics that scale negatively with the skill level of your opponent. Confusion, A lot of on demand invulnerability, Stealth, Clones and a pretty unique 6 sec cc in Moa Signet. Mesmer are an absolute pain to deal with at gold level of play(75% are gold or lower btw).  All that stuff has of course counter play of course. The thing is if Mesmer is on a power level that 10 year old veteran, 200apm player barley can keep up and it becomes best in slot in AT, it lights out for gold players. And everything below gold might as well start afking when the mesmer show up in the opponents team. Mesmer is probably the closest profession to its class fantasy, which makes it a nightmare for the average player to face of. I remember starting PvP and just flat out avoiding to fight Mesmer cause their whole kit punishes inexperience and missing class knowledge.

you could honestly say the same thing about any class.
Heck I can bully low ranked players on ranger far better then I ever could on mesmer, even including 1shot core memes.
All classes bully low ranks when properly, mesmer is the odd one out that has counterplay and skills that actually interact with the oponent. Parry skills, confusion, mechanic that can be destroyed, power block and low sustain is how ALL classes should function.
But the rest of the roster has 0 counterplay to its mechanics, all of them are free value, shoved in sustain for free, usually in dps traitlines too so you dont even have to lose anything for that and we see how that ends up looking like.

[Myror.7521]

Imagine i would not say mes is bad. It is overshadowed by meta for sure but Bad? Nah not that.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The problem is mesmer has a lot of uninteractive bad-for-the-game mechanics that make it so that whenever the class has decent numbers, it basically breaks the game. So they would have to actually rework parts of the design, which would be unfair to PvE players. So instead they have opted to keep mesmer numbers nerfed.

18 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

The Big Problem with Mesmer in my opinion is: The class is riddled with mechanics that scale negatively with the skill level of your opponent. Confusion, A lot of on demand invulnerability, Stealth, Clones and a pretty unique 6 sec cc in Moa Signet. Mesmer are an absolute pain to deal with at gold level of play(75% are gold or lower btw).  All that stuff has of course counter play of course. The thing is if Mesmer is on a power level that 10 year old veteran, 200apm player barley can keep up and it becomes best in slot in AT, it lights out for gold players. And everything below gold might as well start afking when the mesmer show up in the opponents team. Mesmer is probably the closest profession to its class fantasy, which makes it a nightmare for the average player to face of. I remember starting PvP and just flat out avoiding to fight Mesmer cause their whole kit punishes inexperience and missing class knowledge.

This is incorrect. Most mesmer mechanics only have "predictive counterplay" IE counterplay that only works if the mesmer player is bad. For instance, predicting a stealth GS spike by counting down the stealth seconds and dodge/blocking right at the right time will indeed work, but it only works if the mesmer is playing like a monkey and always waits the full duration. Because of this, mesmer back when it was meta was very strong at low skill levels, fell off at medium-high skill levels, but actually became broken again at the highest skill levels.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Master Ketsu.4569

[SlayerXX.7138]

53 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

For instance, predicting a stealth GS spike by counting down the stealth seconds and dodge/blocking right at the right time will indeed work, but it only works if the mesmer is playing like a monkey and always waits the full duration.

That is exactly my point. In your example the non Mesmer has to have deep class knowledge about his opponent, counting stealth seconds and even then its only effective if the Mesmer plays like a monkey. In general correctly playing against a Mesmer is harder then playing a Mesmer thanks to his kit. The same is true for going into stealth in clones, when your opponent has a weapon who needs a target. The Same is true for confusion if it would be strong enough do justify a place in AT. Which is a hefty contrast to for example Bladesworn, where the counter play is "just" dodge the somewhat telegraphed attack.

 

@ano nimo.3948

I know Mesmer has counter play more then most probably, that is exactly the problem. Not in a vacuum of course, but in conjunction with using AT or plat 1 as a measuring stick. The top 1% are absolute animals, its like they play another game altogether. If they barley  can contain mesmer power or not at all, what chance stand the normal people. That's is true to a lesser extend with other profession and class mechanics. Thief stealth combined with mobility for example. Combined with the fact that Mesmer lacks good mobility the power you would need to give Mesmer to make it meta in high level off play would break it.

In my opinion at least. Mesmer don't seem weak and are plenty in my games at least. It is a great duelist who lack mobility and falls off if your opponent know what they are doing.

[Vancho.8750]

I think mesmer would have been better if Anet didn't over bloat its mechanics on every elite specs.

If you think about it Virtuoso would quite strong if core mesmer didn't get butchered because of Mirage and Chrono, since virtuoso works almost like Spellbreacker.

Mirage could have been fine even with the most OP Dodge traits from the start of POF but only if it was power oriented.

Chrono would have been fine if they relegated it to a support, instead swinging back and forth to what the kitten it does between patches and creating different monsters in the process. 

They really need to lock down what Elite specs do on mesmer (applies to all professions actually) and untangle the core traitlines from the mess they have created. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

People still complain about a 10 years combo. No wonder mesmer is garbage. 

[Mell.4873]

So the gist is I want Mesmer (mostly Mirage) to go back to dominating high-level PvP.

I think in reality Mesmer does see play in all PvP game modes and with the recent Chronomancer changes I'm seeing it being used a lot more in WvW.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Axl.8924]

On 9/10/2022 at 5:04 PM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I dont see why mesmer would be good.
Its kind of jack of all trades, kitten in all.
Bad sustain, bad cleanse, medicore mobility, cant hold nodes, cant support the team.
After all the nerfs mesmer boils down to dump all DPS skills as fast as possible and hope someone dies because after 10s you run out of steam and flop dead. Class is so bad it just even feels bad to play.

EDIT
also you can get to play 2 with anything, heck I might try getting to plat 2 with first person camera only.

By that standard then we should make all specs equally bad? yeap bias much i see.

 

I'd like to see mes get overhauls so they aren't OP and can be good in situations

 

Your commentary kinda falls ins ame direction as those crying for nerfs and gotten nerfed into the ground specs which got deleted.

Classes are supposed to be desireable and viable to play with its elites and mesmers should have a opportunity to be viable in SPVP and WVW. Anything less is not fair we shouldn't have some classes viable for all content and others not viable for contents this needs to be fixed.

My problem and reason for being annoyed is jsut because mes were OP and center of all content once doesn't excuse having htem less desired in content.

Mes warriors eles nec everyone has had their time in the sun as OP.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Axl.8924

[Leonidrex.5649]

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

By that standard then we should make all specs equally bad? yeap bias much i see.

 

I'd like to see mes get overhauls so they aren't OP and can be good in situations

 

Your commentary kinda falls ins ame direction as those crying for nerfs and gotten nerfed into the ground specs which got deleted.

Classes are supposed to be desireable and viable to play with its elites and mesmers should have a opportunity to be viable in SPVP and WVW. Anything less is not fair we shouldn't have some classes viable for all content and others not viable for contents this needs to be fixed.

My problem and reason for being annoyed is jsut because mes were OP and center of all content once doesn't excuse having htem less desired in content.

Mes warriors eles nec everyone has had their time in the sun as OP.

 

 

I never said all specs should be equally bad, its just mesmer is bad at everything so its weird to see people be surprised that its a bad pvp class. Lead dev legit doesnt know what skills from classes do so no wonder classes are not balanced.
Heck from what I have seen im fairly sure the devs themselves dont even like mesmer as a class. It is what it is.

[Axl.8924]

12 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I never said all specs should be equally bad, its just mesmer is bad at everything so its weird to see people be surprised that its a bad pvp class. Lead dev legit doesnt know what skills from classes do so no wonder classes are not balanced.
Heck from what I have seen im fairly sure the devs themselves dont even like mesmer as a class. It is what it is.

 

I'm just sometimes offended even get annoyed because i like this class and get truly irritated when folks call for a nerf without understanding.

As for the point: Yes definitely Arenanet doesn't know what to do with berserker for instance and it competes with bladesworn its a weird thing then we got mirage which lost its dodge and supposedly in pvp its not too effective due to loss.

 

I just don't understand where they plan to put every class in viability. Honestly i prefer big open  fights because the balance there puts emphasis on certain things like aoes from classes like elementalist can shine and should shine and aoes from reaper and heralds aoes.

 

I just want them to decide instead of new DLC to focus on balancing classes in pve so we see positions filled at this point.

 

It just really rubs me the wrong way when people who don't understand a class come in like they know better than arenanet ask for a nerf to a class without even understanding it because they hate the class/elite and want it to become non existent because they are selfish.

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Axl.8924

[greedywholesome.9081]

On 9/11/2022 at 11:44 PM, ano nimo.3948 said:

The last dev with a bit of clue about mesmer and no barely hidden hate for that class left around 2018 i would say. Also the "no high skill ceiling wanted"- balance philosophy will make sure mesmer hate will not stop on any lvl.

 

Don't worry mesmer boys, CmC is in the lead now, enjoy one dodge chrono and no distortion mirage and maybe they add 1-2 trade offs to core mesmer too, so that elites do not fall behind core some day

 

2018 sounds accurate as the Mesmer class has had very little support since then. Aqua man got a promotion, grats to him, doom for mesmer. To be fair the one dodge mirage trained me to be super stingy with dodging when I play other classes. It improved my gameplay tons. I still play dps chrono from time to time for nostalgia. Other than that, it's just too much effort to play this little sustain class. Mad respect to the folks that play Mesmer exclusively.