NoggDog.5486 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 If you're going to bring Specter's Shadow Shroud in line with Necro shroud, remember that one of the main reasons it works so well for Necro is the damage reduction. Please look into adding even 33% damage reduction to Specter Shroud so that this nerf has a bit of a cushion. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammuz.7361 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said: AoE quickness is gone from Scrapper and Herald. But we forgot about Harbinger? Reminder that Cele harb is a menace in WvW and Curses Harb is still top tier in PvP. Harbinger only viable in 1v1 (where AOE quickness doesnt matter anyhow), its essentially useless in group fights thanks to virtually all of its damage coming from ‘physical projectile’ effects Scrapper primarily played as the major support healer along with FB in group fights in WvW. Herald… err herald wasnt meta in WvW any more due to successive nerfs, not really sure why it needed further nerfing, of a trait that wasnt played anymore anyhow…. But I dont really care since vindicator may actually possibly be viable now! Edited September 17, 2022 by Tammuz.7361 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta.2563 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) Quote Scrapper wells are now stationary ground-targeted skills with a range of 900. So you have to stand in the ground target area when the skill ends to get superspeed? This sounds dumb. Edited September 17, 2022 by Vegeta.2563 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 As with all "Balance" updates, it won't result in more balance but it will result in different imbalance. Perhaps that's what it should be called. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, Vegeta.2563 said: So you have to stand in the ground target area when the skill ends to get superspeed? This sounds dumb. Sounds like Catalyst 😂 Welcome and be glad it doesn't need energy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernstein adelheid.8590 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said: @bernstein adelheid.8590 to answer your last question. This might have been a Direktion cause of pvp. Cause Entering Berserker Mode is actually an interruptable Burst skill. So everytime you get Interrupted while use it it goes straigth on a 5 seconds CD what is a hughe dmg loss and specialy in pvp it means simply the death to ya. Are you telling me that warrior players in SPVP activated the berserk mode randomly, and not when a hard CC connected on the enemy? I have to say, that the spvp players play VERY differently compared the WvW players. 16 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said: To the first question they dont touched the extension thing in pve. They only Touch them in pvp to hold them just in balance. Also the headbutt thing does not change anything in pve the only thing that it might bring is a faster dmg window thanks to you do not self cc with stabi on headdbutt now. They removed the removal of stability in PVE as well. So yes. This block the combo headbutt+outrage combo from happening. 17 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said: Means the dmg over all should be the same as before maybe even higher on condi now. Think at it in this way: You're in Fractal, place where the bosses have phases that last less than 10 seconds. The fight starts and you basically enter the fight with less stacks of Berserker's Power compared to before. Before, you would instantly get +21% damage. Now, after the first burst, you will have a +10.5% bonus damage instead. (if i understood correctly the patch notes, the game will always let you have one stack available regardless) Now you will have to choose if use two more burst in order to reach that +21 %, or use the Whirling Axe skill right away and do less damage. By the time you will reach all four stacks. the boss probably already went into next phase and is invulnerable. Rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammuz.7361 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said: let me guess, scrapper got the hammer? it needed it, BADLY ALL other healer / cleanser options were unviable in WvW due to it being OP It was at the point where it was literally mandatory to have 1FB + 1 scrapper per group in WvW, Edited September 17, 2022 by Tammuz.7361 7 3 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arianth Moonlight.6453 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tammuz.7361 said: It was at the point where it was literally mandatory to have 1FB + 1 scrapper per group in WvW, yeah, I know. I really hate joining those squads since they usually have no skills and just want to be carried by those two specs. 2 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bach From The Brink.2715 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bookah pls.9352 said: I'm gonna be real honest here, for this patch so far it mostly feels like while the people announcing the changes have changed, the people who decide the changes hasn't really. Still, early days. Wdym? A multitude of things were addressed here that had been longstanding issues, and probably would've remained as such. Additionally, they've finally gone and done something good about the 300s traits. I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that the individuals touting this balance patch as bad, and not an improvement relative to previous patches, don't have much of an idea about what they're talking about or they were hardcore wvw scrap mains (which was admittedly over tuned - it's probably still not going anywhere despite the changes). Not everything is going to get fixed this patch, that was doubtful from the start. Can't expect everything to get fixed but denying that LOTS of things did get needed attention relative to previous patches would be pretty odd. I mean, the mesmer / warrior changes alone are enough to give me a good bit of hope. They hadn't seen almost any love in like 2 years and had been quite poor at upper levels of play but now they've finally gotten adjustments. The only people I've seen complaining about the patch in map chat so far have been players venting about mech being OP in PvP. Thing is, it's actually quite bad. Just seems like there's a lot of really vocal people here honestly. Edited September 17, 2022 by ImBach.9013 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said: The fact of the matter is that wvw support scrapper has been overloaded with utility which no other options are ever gonna be able to compete unless they made drastic changes. Now it has wells that behave like actual wells. Fair enough. Shame they let the interaction run for as long as it did, people are used to be being carried by scrappers. Too bad tempest is likely just gonna replace it if people can stomach the superspeed/stealth trade-off, so not a huge shift as it was already a decent alternative. But at least it doesn't have the same utility output. Makes it easier to balance the support situation further. At this point just change their classification back to Gyro instead of Well. We'll lose chronomancer rune synergy, but that's preferable to this step backward in design. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalsePromises.6398 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) I'm completely not sold on scrapper changes. Consider: why on earth would you want superspeed applied on the first pulse of a stationary field? The implication there is that you don't want people standing in your fields, giving them superspeed as an implication to move away quickly? Which seems contrary to the designs of many of them? The whole point of superspeed and gyros turning into wells after their initial entity-ish forms was to make scrapper a more reliable and mobile bruiser/utility support spec, and if that is too strong in WvW that can be nerfed specifically in WvW like Firebrand and scourge have been handled: effect reductions until their overpowered gimmicks are balanced for their modes OR no longer viable. Superspeed sharing goes perfectly in hand with wells staying attached to you, to promote a mobile playstyle. If you get rid of that... I can barely guess what scrapper becomes. A boring quickness spec that has inconsistent design for its effects? You could do plenty other things to nerf the support capabilities in WvW, because it's not overperforming anywhere else really. Could alter the superspeed on well sharing to become swiftness for allies instead, and adjust traits as such, or even just apply superspeed at highly reduced durations to allies too, just for WvW. Could even completely change sneak gyro into something else and not much would be lost for other modes. Making gyro wells stationary kills scrapper's entire flavor and sensibility (Defense field could just be ground targeted though, that doesn't matter much). As a big fan of scrapper, this just doesn't sit well. From what I can tell of the current well design, they've been balanced around their attached usage, which is why things like shredder deal middling damage or why blast gyro has a three second windup. The playstyle rework for other modes when you have to consider getting to your enemy first, THEN casting gyros on top of them for the benefits... again, sits incredibly wrong. There has to be a better solution to fixing scrapper in WvW that doesn't involve sucking all the fun and coherence out of it for other gamemodes. The proposed change completely centers around one build and mechanical usage in WvW that could be handled in a myriad of different ways. Edited September 17, 2022 by FalsePromises.6398 6 7 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBakery.6153 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 [Lucid Singularity] Is also still completely cracked OP for WvW and 100% invalidates [Transcendent Tempest] because you would never take the latter because the former affects elemental attunement-swap cd time as well as reduces "time to attune." Not a fan of one trait just being plain "better" than another al-la: [Martial Cadance] >> [Heightened Focus] Not to mention 7s is a LOT base in competitive imo. Especially if Herald and Scrapper Quickness are getting removed. Having to at least pretend that eles had to spec into boon duration or that they weren't already running full cele in WvW for every role, which makes it 10 & 1/2s aoe alacrity with basically no cd + perma aoe shocing aura if you take [Fresh Air] & runes of radience would be nice. *Please not [Fresh Air] is not the issue in this combo imo. ^ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Vegeta.2563 said: So you have to stand in the ground target area when the skill ends to get superspeed? This sounds dumb. Nope, Now superspeed happens at the stat of the well so your group can run out of them at mach 10. Edited September 17, 2022 by Kuma.1503 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melodyspectrum.2980 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tammuz.7361 said: it needed it, BADLY ALL other healer / cleanser options were unviable in WvW due to it being OP It was at the point where it was literally mandatory to have 1FB + 1 scrapper per group in WvW, soooo.... where is the fb nerf anyone? 8 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itspomf.9523 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 I assume it's been answered elsewhere in the other 7+ pages I haven't read through, but is it safe to assume that if it doesn't say PvP- or WvW-only, it's in all game modes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammuz.7361 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, melodyspectrum.2980 said: soooo.... where is the fb nerf anyone? Thats next I think once we see enough stab sources elsewhere… Although in the FB case its more of: we need to give other builds Stab options up to FBs level rather than just a streight and direct FB nerf. Otherwise it becomes a stunfest which is no fun. Edited September 17, 2022 by Tammuz.7361 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXxOrcaxXx.9328 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Please have a look at Untamed. Apart from half of the appeal if Untamed being more control over the pet, which should be a core Ranger thing and not locked behind an elite spec, in PvE at least, Untamed is held up by exactly one trait. Please give it the Soulbeast OWP treatment. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammuz.7361 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, xXxOrcaxXx.9328 said: Please have a look at Untamed. Apart from half of the appeal if Untamed being more control over the pet, which should be a core Ranger thing and not locked behind an elite spec, in PvE at least, Untamed is held up by exactly one trait. Please give it the Soulbeast OWP treatment. Soulbeast is probably gonna be OP now in PvE… think they should reconsider… Edited September 17, 2022 by Tammuz.7361 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXxOrcaxXx.9328 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Tammuz.7361 said: Soulbeast is probably gonna be OP now in PvE… think they should reconsider… Why should it be OP in PvE? Will 3 more skills you can rotate through every 20 seconds before alac (if it even affects the swap timer) be worth more than an almost-always-on 10% damage buff? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, xXxOrcaxXx.9328 said: Why should it be OP in PvE? Will 3 more skills you can rotate through every 20 seconds before alac (if it even affects the swap timer) be worth more than an almost-always-on 10% damage buff? Some of those pet skills hit very hard, others are very useful for utility/CC. They can also proc pet swap traits much easier now. I'm expecting them to reach 40k dps or above after the changes. Edited September 17, 2022 by Kuma.1503 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myror.7521 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) @bernstein adelheid.8590 first: It just Depends on the Situation also on the build you are just playing. But what has it to do with zerk Mode is just cc able. Its not like players would not use cc Brake and cc you back or souch. Second: i must correct you sir. On the patch notes it clearly said. "When you use it it gain ya 5 seconds, when you use it as a stunbrake it gain ya 10 seconds instead". So over all it is not just a nerf cause now you will gain +5 seconds even while it is not a stunbrake. Before the patch it was 1 second without stunbrake and 5 seconds with one. Third: well okay it might be a dmg loss for Power Berserker but still im pretty sure that the condition warrior will provite by it. On power well mechanical wise it should do less dmg over all while in the Berserker mode but more when you are not in it so i gues we need to see it first to be clear how things come xd. Edited September 17, 2022 by Pati.2438 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta.2563 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said: Sounds like Catalyst 😂 Welcome and be glad it doesn't need energy. Superspeed being the skill that gives you better movement.. now you won't get hardly any of it while moving. Sad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaraki.5784 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) Will this mainly be a competitive balance patch? I see very little for pve. Edited September 17, 2022 by Zaraki.5784 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcatraznc.3869 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 So correct me if I'm wrong. It is stated that Scrapper is overperforming compared to other support. Fair enough. But then you decide to buff other support and literally kill Scrapper while stating you do not want to put other support at the level of the current Scrapper. The initial design or gyro was to have some mini pet following you around and helping you do your job with some being more usefull than other. Thematically it is fine but I guess it didnt work really well. Then it got changed to...well or more specifically, moving well which works better than the previous itteration but the theme has been more or less thrown out of the windows. In both case, the key point is that gyro are following you around. But now you decide to kill both the theme of the Scrapper and its effectiveness by making it stationnary well. So yeah sure I can already see people telling me that you can still spam superspeed because the boon happens at the first pulse but what if I want the benefit of the skill and not only the superspeed ? For PvE I guess it can still works even though this change is definitely not needed but for WvW/PvP where it is the main target of the change ? If you're going to nerf them then just give me the first itteration of Scrapper at least i still have the theme left 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eXruina.4956 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 pumps fist ✊ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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