October 4 Balance Update Preview

[Marlowe.4831]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:22 AM, Double Tap said:

 

Scrapper

Skills

•  
• Scrapper wells are now stationary ground-targeted skills with a range of 900.

 

 

I'll just add my voice to the chorus of those complaining about this change; the numbers and utility aspect of stationary gyros aside I can't help but feel this just guts the way the class will feel to play.

 

Gameplay is kinda important in making Guild Wars 2 worth playing.

[otto.5684]

1 hour ago, Lazze.9870 said:

They literally said they are working on it, but haven't found a solution they are happy with. Mirage is getting two dodges back at some point.

I have a solution. Just make it 2 and do nothing. Mirage was not remotely OP with 2 dodges. If anything, after 50 million nerfs it was already out of the meta. With one dodge it just became unplayable.

[melodyspectrum.2980]

Uhhhh why are you people outright murdering scrapper?

 

Ground targeted skills are kitten. If you absolutely want to make the stationary, which is already a nerf lbr, make it land in the spot that the scrapper is in at the moment of cast, for the love of god don't make it ground targeted.

 

Also, why is quickness being removed? I don't see anything about removing quickness from Firebrand. How does this support class diversity?

The rest of the changes are fair enough, could've fiddled with numbers more, but these two changes are making me want to quit the game for good ngl.

 

EDIT: holy kitten if you're doing this because there's people crying about stealthbombs in WvW just change the stealth gyro in WvW, nerf it or make it pulse smoke field instead of stealth or whatever, don't gut the entire class across all game modes for this? What the kitten.

Edited September 16, 2022 by melodyspectrum.2980
read some more comments

[Wolfshade.9251]

Love the change to Well of Bounty, hope it applies to PvE too. The shroud HP changes were only a matter of time, was fun while it lasted.

Shame about the pointless ground targetting change for gyros. Sure, makes sense in WvW, but not so much in PvE. Will make my fav spec more clunky to play... but I guess I'll get used to it (and giving quickness while tanking large hitbox bosses is neat too). 

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

For those wondering why Mirage didn't get mentioned, it did get mentioned on stream that mirage will be getting its dodge back. I'm not entirely sure if it'll be in this patch or the next one (end of november) but it'll be back.

Not this patch, and probably not for another 6 months whenever they decide to do the next pvp focused patch next year. The next patch in nov is more pve focused, which doesn't have the dodge nerf.

[Rage Cube.4573]

Really disappointing having scrapper quickness removed and wells are stationary.

No mechanist changes?

I guess all aboard the holo ship.

[LuneNoire.2016]

Glad to see we are fully embracing the split balancing for game modes. Never subscribed to the idea that "skills and traits should feel the same across all game modes".

 

The three game modes are completely different (and WvW is an amalgamation of small and large scale combat).

 

Hate the change to Scrapper Gyros being stationary wells now. This will just shift the support weight on Tempest that can still more reliably cleanse while on the move and provide Alacrity.  The game combat (especially outside of PvP where control points are a thing) shines when it's fluid and mobile. NOT when you have to precast certain abilities and hope your allies stand in them.

 

Damage back on CC in WvW is interesting, curious to see how that'll work out.

 

Regarding Chrono changes, just going to leave this here.

 

Quote

February 06, 2018

Shatter Skills: These skills now only shatter clones. Descriptions have been updated to reflect their new functionality.

 

Quote

July 16, 2019

This skill now replaces distortion in the F4 slot instead of taking the F5 slot. Additionally, it applies 1 second of distortion when cast. Duration has been rescaled based on the number of clones to 3/4.5/6 seconds. This skill now specifies that it cannot be reset by other mesmer skills.

Quote

July 07, 2020

Chronomancer shatter skills can now be activated without clones, and the shatter effect also occurs at the mesmer's location. This skill has a 1.5-second duration with no clones. 1.5 seconds is added per clone shattered. This skill no longer grants distortion.

When will the Anet-boogie on certain skills and classes end, can you please decide on a design? Same goes for Throw Mine, at this point it's a meme how this mostly irrelevant skills gets changed every single WvW patch.

 

 

Also I disagree with "removing tradeoffs" from Elite specs. That's the whole point of an Elite SPECIALIZATION, you specialize in one thing, you give up performance in another.

 

If anything I'd propose MORE tradeoffs for things, to make sure a DPS Elite Spec will not be able to ALSO provide tons of boons for allies, a Healing Spec won't ALSO deal a lot of damage and so on. If anything, the tradeoffs were finally giving meaning to the specs, now we are back to throwing everything into one big melting pot and calling it a class.

 

EoD specs need to be brought in line and stop being one-size-fits all with boring traits (+power damage, + condi damage, + support, pick one in each category).

 

Good to see balance is moving forward but I'd realyl like to see a change on the fundamental design, streamlining everything might make it easier to balance, but less interesting to pick different classes. Tradeoffs are important, specializations should do just that, specialize in something, get worse at something else (another spec can fill that role).

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, melodyspectrum.2980 said:

Ground targeted skills are kitten.

Yeah, I wonder how the rest of classes functioned with ground target aoes the past ten years.

 

[Bast.7253]

Just now, Rage Cube.4573 said:

Really disappointing having scrapper quickness removed and wells are stationary.

No mechanist changes?

I guess all aboard the holo ship.

Yeah, I don't really get it. I mean did people even really use gyro's in pvp? I feel like every scrapper I've seen has just been grenade one-shot spam? So - basically they want people to play grenades. 

Peak holo was nearly as bad as Bladesworn and I hated pvp in PoF because of it. It does EVERYTHING. I was happy to see it die down but now it's just going to go back to being holos, heralds, and chronos everywhere. Even with these warrior changes I doubt many people will be overly satisfied. 

Idk. Holo is apparently just the golden child. I'm guessing people found it fun and requested these buffs somewhere but of course its "fun" when it's a top performing spamming class with everything in its toolkit. 

It also feels like they've simultaneously nerfed or ignored any of the professions that could counter holo reasonably. Specter needed a nerf, but it needed a nerf in condition output - not health in shroud. Especially not health in shroud in pve if it applies there. 

Maybe holo should get the toolbelt skills removed as its trade-off and just have holo-forge. That seems like a fair trade for everything else that it does. Then again I can almost bet we'll be seeing some nearly unkillable soulbeast builds with higher burst potential than it already has. I thin it's a good change for creating more build diversity for soulbeast but I'm scared to see what people come up with after these changes.

[otto.5684]

This is somewhat disappointing. Most of the pvp changes do not change much. As guardian main, in pvp, what works still works and what does not still does not. Zero changes. FB and DH in spvp remain terrible. Not much changes on mesmer beside chrono getting distortion back. I am not sure about the Vindicator change. Definitely a damage buff. Though the issue in pve was noticeably lower damage on small hit boxes and lack of support capabilities. That has not changed. 

[Shiv Deeviant.8072]

Throwing my two cents into the ring: 

In all honesty the only thing I don't like about this is the Scrapper well changes to ground targeting for all game modes. I understand that it's probably too good in WvW zerg functions, but it's just so unique and fun for PvE! I'd hate to lose the great functionality while running mobile sections of Raids or Fractals. I just feel like it would get rid of one of the most unique things about the scrapper, running a PBAoE support build similar to to old Double Dragon Ele builds from GW1 without the animation jank of a bomb kit twerk.

I'd HOPE that this functionality got split for WvW so we could at least try it there first before expanding it to PvE or PvP, because it really feels like the mobility of it is only really a problem in WvW.

 

Everything else I'm super excited for, though! Interested in seeing the Quickness options for WvW get limited to Firebrand, Harbinger, and Warrior (though my Herald cried a little and my reloading shouts Bladesworn cries a smidge, too). I understand and accept all of these changes with the exception listed above, and am interested in seeing how it affects the game!

[Vandal.5621]

The stationary, ground-targeted Gyro change is completely and utterly bad. Like, I have no idea who came up with it, but they clearly have never played Scrapper in their lives.

 

This is the banner rework all over again. But at least this time there's time to fix it.

 

Undo this, ANet, while there's still time. Don't make this god-awful change.

[melodyspectrum.2980]

7 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Yeah, I wonder how the rest of classes functioned with ground target aoes the past ten years.

 

They can function fine, but there is always non-ground target skill options to pick instead and still be viable for people who have trouble with ground targeting. This instead locks out the entire specialization for people like me. Sorry for existing I guess.

[fatihso.7258]

Could we get an official wording on if the scrapper gyro/well changes are planned for PVE, too? Thank you.

 

@Cal Cohen.2358

[Polar.8634]

Changes are good go on.

[Bast.7253]

Okay, yeah, so I just read the reddit posts and the arcane shield on elite activiation for elementalists - I suggested rebound as one of the skills earlier but in truth, it really does work against the core purpose of rebound. 

I would think 3 blocks would last longer than the duration rebound has to trigger to protect from fatal damage. Not only that but didn't they just rework rebound to also provide aegis with one of the traits? So potentially 4 blocks?

Umm... what? I'm sure it will still have SOME use - but this particular trait change seems .. very strange.

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, melodyspectrum.2980 said:

They can function fine, but there is always non-ground target skill options to pick instead and still be viable for people who have trouble with ground targeting. This instead locks out the entire specialization for people like me. Sorry for existing I guess.

Well if they can function fine why can't scrapper? Why is scrapper the exception?

Don't worry though your wells are still better than chronomancers by a mile.

 

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

let me guess, scrapper got the hammer?

[Polar.8634]

5 minutes ago, Teoman.9713 said:

Could we get an official wording on if the scrapper gyro/well changes are planned for PVE, too? Thank you.

It is only for WvW and PvP it is already written in notes

[Bast.7253]

3 minutes ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

let me guess, scrapper got the hammer?

I don't even play scrapper and I can tell you this pun is too soon!

Edited September 16, 2022 by Bast.7253

[Voraxen.2035]

Oh cool, only thief nerfs.

[Jash.3104]

10 minutes ago, melodyspectrum.2980 said:

They can function fine, but there is always non-ground target skill options to pick instead and still be viable for people who have trouble with ground targeting. This instead locks out the entire specialization for people like me. Sorry for existing I guess.

As a disabled player this kills my favourite spec for this exact reason. Now I'll be locked to mech.

[Polar.8634]

2 minutes ago, Jash.3104 said:

As a disabled player this kills my favourite spec for this exact reason. Now I'll be locked to mech.

In game options change ground targeting abilities to target yourself.

[Odin.6487]

instead of focusing on the zerker trait line can you guys make fast hands baseline and rework the arms trainline. 

[Blazing Rathalos.1904]

 

The're removing some elite spec trade-offs without replacing them with anything and I cannot fully describe how much I hate it. It leaves even less reason to play some core professions, even though other professions do have a play mechanic unique to their core version. It also makes choosing an elite spec itself less interesting.

 

I loved it when they started rectifying that imbalance, so I now hate it when they turn back from that for extremely nebulous, undefined "does not feel good". They're removing some of the unique limitations of the Berserker, and I don't even see a reason mentioned! If some trade-offs are poorly designed, replace them with something better, don't gut the whole design, please.