no one knows whats going on and thats HUGE problem

[Avatar.3568]

Games are onsided, people get mad, call it kitten matchmaking (which is sometimes kinda true) and quit pvp.
And this is a big barrier for many new players to enter. In my expierence there are few different factors besides the matchmaker:

- Teamcomps! Some teamcomps have better teamfights, some are better for rotations and in ranked its often a mix in between, the problem?
people don't know what their teamcomp favors and might feed every fight

-Rotations! a Result of the teamcomp problem but there is even more! in lower ranks (and in p2+ too) people actually often don't know where to go,
this ends up in some random rotations that can throw games (if the enemys can take the advantage and don't counter throw it with the same stupid rotation).
wrong rotations are in Gold and below so common that correct rotations are so super rare that they randomly happen and wins games.

-Roles! Guildwars doesn't have from the game defined roles, but they exist (Roamer, Bruiser, Supporter, Sidenoder, Bunker, teamfighter, decaper and Hybrids between all of them and idk what else).
The Problem? well people often bring up their own builds, which i appriciate a lot, but either they don't bring any of the roles on the table OR they don't know their role and the role that the build fulfill.
This ends up in even more weird rotations, sidenoders join the teamfights, supports try to sidenode on an enemy node and roamer try to bunker against 3 people.

 

What is the Solution to this? 

well idk, players often don't like criticsm or advices(heck even in the forums), so anet should maybe bring up a real pvp Tutorial.
- a big written Guide (INGAME), explaining what the Roles need to do, teamcomp suggestions(with the explained roles) and how simple conquest rotations work.
- a 5vsBot mode with little popups related to the guide, new players could learn together some simple rules before they get released into the wildlands.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Games are onsided, people get mad, call it kitten matchmaking (which is sometimes kinda true) and quit pvp.
And this is a big barrier for many new players to enter. In my expierence there are few different factors besides the matchmaker:

The match maker is a base problem yes, but this is due to low population.

There is also a great deal of match manipulation going on in ranked GW2.

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Teamcomps! Some teamcomps have better teamfights, some are better for rotations and in ranked its often a mix in between, the problem?
people don't know what their teamcomp favors and might feed every fight

They've granted so much to every class that it almost doesn't matter anymore.

The only things that are really important are 1) Having a good Support, 2) Having experienced DPS, 3) Having players that know how to swap for counters vs. the opposing comp. That's about how it works now. The game isn't even complex anymore.

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Rotations! a Result of the teamcomp problem but there is even more! in lower ranks (and in p2+ too) people actually often don't know where to go,
this ends up in some random rotations that can throw games (if the enemys can take the advantage and don't counter throw it with the same stupid rotation).
wrong rotations are in Gold and below so common that correct rotations are so super rare that they randomly happen and wins games.

It's over-rotation. It's as simple as that. Due to mobility creep, now everyone feels the need to play like a Roamer and they rarely pay attention to actually defending nodes. I can't tell you how many games I've had to specifically say to people: "Slow down. Defend nodes before pushing nodes." and when they listen, the game is much easier to win.

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

Roles! Guildwars doesn't have from the game defined roles, but they exist (Roamer, Bruiser, Supporter, Sidenoder, Bunker, teamfighter, decaper and Hybrids between all of them and idk what else).
The Problem? well people often bring up their own builds, which i appriciate a lot, but either they don't bring any of the roles on the table OR they don't know their role and the role that the build fulfill.
This ends up in even more weird rotations, sidenoders join the teamfights, supports try to sidenode on an enemy node and roamer try to bunker against 3 people.

We've lost the classic job roles of Support, Team Fighter, Roamer, Side Noder. Once again, due to mobility creep specifically and general power creep, everyone just sort of does the same thing now, save Supports. The job roles are now just: 1) Supports and 2) Guys that deal DPS. Team Fighter/Roamer/Side Noder roles are dead. Every "Guy that deals DPS" can adequately perform all of these roles now. These roles are no longer roles but are rather something more akin to plays or actions that can be taken when it is advantageous to do so.

This is probably a large reason contributing to the confusion of rotations/team comps that you are talking about. Now that modern builds can essentially perform all job roles, middle tiered and lower players just don't know what the hell they're supposed to be doing, so they try to do everything but they lack the experience to know when these things are good ideas or bad ideas.

1 hour ago, Avatar.3568 said:

well idk, players often don't like criticsm or advices(heck even in the forums), so anet should maybe bring up a real pvp Tutorial.
- a big written Guide (INGAME), explaining what the Roles need to do, teamcomp suggestions(with the explained roles) and how simple conquest rotations work.
- a 5vsBot mode with little popups related to the guide, new players could learn together some simple rules before they get released into the wildlands.

Honestly man, the tutorial you and many other people have asked for, is already here in the form of being made to play in Unranked until you're r20 to be able to do Ranked. It's just up to every individual player to decide how much they want to learn in that timeframe. You either bring up strategy & guide threads/videos and you learn from them or you don't. You either ask  questions in game or you don't. You either take good advice when players point it out to you or you don't.

I don't think this game would benefit very much from some programmed in tutorial. Conquest is too complex to explain in a tutorial like that. It also changes too often patch to patch. They'd need to update the tutorial every 2 months with new patches for it to stay relevant, and I highly doubt Arenanet is willing to do that.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Kozumi.5816]

13 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

There is also a great deal of match manipulation going on in ranked GW2.

Prove it. No one has ever match manipulated in GW2. Why would they? No one cares or takes PvP serious enough in this game to do such a thing.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

28 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Prove it. No one has ever match manipulated in GW2.

Bruh that's laughably easy to do

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/dka7hc/megathread_october_2019_ban_wave/f4lgjva/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-July-Monthly-Tournament-Investigation/page/1

28 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Why would they? No one cares or takes PvP serious enough in this game to do such a thing.

On the contrary the sorry state of PvP and the lack of attention it gets makes it incredibly easy to do and get away with.

No doubt, if things were better there would probably be less match manipulation, but as it stands:

They do anything for clout

They do anything for clout

[JTGuevara.9018]

4 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Prove it. No one has ever match manipulated in GW2. Why would they? No one cares or takes PvP serious enough in this game to do such a thing.

It's got nothing to do with seriousness. People do it because THEY COULD.

[felix.2386]

i remember back in the days, people knows how to regroup and wait for respawn when team has more then 3 deaths.

now? people just runs in, doesn't matter.

now snowball potential is greater then ever, and regrouping is more crucial yet people pre HoT does regrouping better then now. 

and then people blame for one sided match lol.

 

even some newer top25 players has heavy tunnel vision and does not know optimal rotations and have little map awareness

and only get top25 purely with mechanic skills with meta builds and farming gold 3 because that's what they are matched with.

Edited September 16, 2022 by felix.2386

[Tescao.3042]

no one knows whats going on and thats really HUGE problem. Guys, I asked you not to limit confusion.

As a main DeathKnight in the past, I have a good understanding of Dots

Edited September 16, 2022 by Tescao.3042

[Mell.4873]

I get it there is no defining team roles I would even go so far as to say that Support is slowly being phased out. The only Team roles left are Roamers/Duelists and Team Fighters.

Honestly if I'm being frank, I believe this is what Arena Net wants. Now you no longer have to be berated or gate kept to participate in PvP and can bring anything you want. I do prefer this myself since I'm really good a particular Class and not a particular role.

I don't think they can go back either since the main reason the roles are disappearing is due to the new elite specializations. I mean Willbender is some sort of Support/Roamer hybrid. I feel like everyone playing to there strengths works a lot better than trying to fit into a mold.

Play your PvE class really well, Watch a Vullan tutorial and you should fine in PvP.

[Mythras.2091]

I was always an avarage player bouncing around g3-p1 (g1-g3 if i tried a class that is new to me) and cant say how much i hate far-fetish, and noregroup-lets-die-on-mid-one-by-one 😛 Also, the lack of targeting and focusing just makes me sad, even more if i see a match as winnable, but we loose because of poor coordination 😞

[Ragnar.4257]

The blurring of roles isn't a bad thing. Rock-Paper-Scissors balance where a side-noder can contribute literally nothing to a teamfight, or where a teamfighter can't survive more than 10 seconds in a 1v1, isn't very engaging. 

But you also want to be wary of going too far the other way, and having all builds be equally good at everything. Thats not very engaging either. 

There needs to be a happy medium.

[Avatar.3568]

12 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

The blurring of roles isn't a bad thing. Rock-Paper-Scissors balance where a side-noder can contribute literally nothing to a teamfight, or where a teamfighter can't survive more than 10 seconds in a 1v1, isn't very engaging. 

But you also want to be wary of going too far the other way, and having all builds be equally good at everything. Thats not very engaging either. 

There needs to be a happy medium.

I was never talking about balancing the Game arround the roles, the roles exist, even If you dislike it.

But anet should educate Players better in this Game, a Look at the Forum tells me that about 1-2% of the Gamers in Here know what they are talking, the Rest ist having a biased opinion from their and their friends expierience. 

This comment alone in this thread Shows it directly:

5 hours ago, Tescao.3042 said:

no one knows whats going on and thats really HUGE problem. Guys, I asked you not to limit confusion.

As a main DeathKnight in the past, I have a good understanding of Dots

What do you wanna Tell us?that you understand conditions? I am Not Sure because they are Not the Same.

Dmging conditions have a similarity to Dots, doing DMG over time, but than we have poison which reduces incomming healing on top, torment that punishes you for Not moving and confusion that punishes for using ability (Just Like in Pokemon).

Blind, weakness, chill, cripple, imobilize, fear, taunt, & vuln have nothing With Dots to do (at least Not the Last Time i played (Legion)).

On top deathknight doesnt exist in gw2 neither does the Playstyle exist. This is Not a bm, but a good example of the typcial gw2 Pvper.

[Sahne.6950]

19 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said:

I was never talking about balancing the Game arround the roles, the roles exist, even If you dislike it.

But anet should educate Players better in this Game, a Look at the Forum tells me that about 1-2% of the Gamers in Here know what they are talking, the Rest ist having a biased opinion from their and their friends expierience. 

This comment alone in this thread Shows it directly:

What do you wanna Tell us?that you understand conditions? I am Not Sure because they are Not the Same.

Dmging conditions have a similarity to Dots, doing DMG over time, but than we have poison which reduces incomming healing on top, torment that punishes you for Not moving and confusion that punishes for using ability (Just Like in Pokemon).

Blind, weakness, chill, cripple, imobilize, fear, taunt, & vuln have nothing With Dots to do (at least Not the Last Time i played (Legion)).

On top deathknight doesnt exist in gw2 neither does the Playstyle exist. This is Not a bm, but a good example of the typcial gw2 Pvper.

most people dont even understand how much depth and understanding you need to do the right calls when to cleanse and when not to. Or that you should always cover your conditions with other ones. the majority of people doesnt even know about covercondis and at what times its smart to wait the extra second till the cripple runs out, so you actually cleanse the burn instead of the cripple. Or that its sometimes smart to take a extra hit, so the last applied condition is the damaging condition that you actually want to cleanse. But stuff like that is also not explained somewhere, so you dont come across this type of gameplay until you reach plat.

currently i have 2 newer players that i am teaching the basic stuff, they just started out or are returning. And with everything that i explain to them they are like : wow.... how am i supposed to know that stuff wihtout someone telling me....  AND THATS A PROBLEM!

Edited September 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Tescao.3042]

21 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

I was never talking about balancing the Game arround the roles, the roles exist, even If you dislike it.

But anet should educate Players better in this Game, a Look at the Forum tells me that about 1-2% of the Gamers in Here know what they are talking, the Rest ist having a biased opinion from their and their friends expierience. 

This comment alone in this thread Shows it directly:

What do you wanna Tell us?that you understand conditions? I am Not Sure because they are Not the Same.

Dmging conditions have a similarity to Dots, doing DMG over time, but than we have poison which reduces incomming healing on top, torment that punishes you for Not moving and confusion that punishes for using ability (Just Like in Pokemon).

Blind, weakness, chill, cripple, imobilize, fear, taunt, & vuln have nothing With Dots to do (at least Not the Last Time i played (Legion)).

On top deathknight doesnt exist in gw2 neither does the Playstyle exist. This is Not a bm, but a good example of the typcial gw2 Pvper.

Oh Buddy, Buddy. Roles is another trap you can just go to the center and skirmish 5 on 5 if you forget about winning and losing.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Tescao.3042

[Spellhunter.9675]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

most people dont even understand how much depth and understanding you need to do the right calls when to cleanse and when not to. Or that you should always cover your conditions with other ones. the majority of people doesnt even know about covercondis

TBH, anet did a lot to get rid of this depth.

If I'm playing metabuild (bonus points if it is a new e-spec) I just smash all my buttons and my build does cleanse, healing, damage and teleporting automatically. If I learn basic map rotation it will be enough for plat.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Spellhunter.9675

[jdawgie.1835]

On 9/15/2022 at 3:41 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

Prove it. No one has ever match manipulated in GW2. Why would they? No one cares or takes PvP serious enough in this game to do such a thing.

LOL!  

23 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Bruh that's laughably easy to do

Please see his post as truer words have never been spoken on this forum.