Hypothetical Poll - How long should it take to craft a set of Open World Legendary Armor?

[Firebeard.1746]

6 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Longer than it takes to craft WvW legendary armor?

Oof why? I think it's strange minimum times for the pve armors have been going down while pvp and wvw are still a massive grind. 

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

This is assuming you can play at least 8 hours per day

That's a bad assumption. WvW armor set currently takes 22 weeks, but assumes around 20 hours per week (so, 3 hours per day). And that's for people new to the content, veterans can significantly reduce it, down to around 9 hours weekly (so, around 1h20mins daily) . I'd say that with similar hours/week assumption, OW PvE armor should take few weeks more. With 50+ hour weekly requirement however (like the one you mentioned) it should definitely be done way faster.

Personally, i think that around 25 weeks of ~15 hours weekly effort should be more than fine for it. Unless the reward rework for WvW Anet mentioned they're thinking about manages to shorter the WvW path or hourly requirement - in which case the OW PvE ones should be adjusted accordingly.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[SuavePuppy.2809]

36 minutes ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

So 62% as of right now do want open world legendary armor as opposed to 38%.

Don't conflate people engaging in a hypothetical thought experiment with them actually wanting it to be implemented.

[ugrakarma.9416]

the armor already exists: is the decade armor.

[Sobx.1758]

There's already a pve set so there's no reason to make another one just because some people don't want to play x content of the game. There will be always content some people won't want to paticipate, it doesn't mean we need 34678 ways to acquire optional long term rewards. It also doesn't mean we need another thread like the one that was closed about a week ago (actually pretty sure that's against forum code of conduct).

Want more rewards, play through more of the game's content. Getting full legendary gear should require people to branch out into multiple modes. People not wanting to do that can easly keep playing the game with exotics/ascended gear.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[A Hamster.2580]

24 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's a bad assumption. WvW armor set currently takes 22 weeks, but assumes around 20 hours per week (so, 3 hours per day). And that's for people new to the content, veterans can significantly reduce it, down to around 9 hours weekly (so, around 1h20mins daily) . I'd say that with similar hours/week assumption, OW PvE armor should take few weeks more. With 50+ hour weekly requirement however (like the one you mentioned) it should definitely be done way faster.

Personally, i think that around 25 weeks of ~15 hours weekly effort should be more than fine for it. Unless the reward rework for WvW Anet mentioned they're thinking about manages to shorter the WvW path or hourly requirement - in which case the OW PvE ones should be adjusted accordingly.

Alright I edited it to 4 hours per day

[ArchonWing.9480]

I don't think there should be a legendary open world armor. At least not with any suggestions I've seen.

But just to play around, if I were to make one, I think it should be around the Su-Won meta of difficulty. Like you would farm said meta and similar metas of a hypothetical Living Story Season 5 6. You'd also have to play through all of EoD content.

With that I could say 24 weeks.

However, I do not think anyone would actually take up this offer. But do correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited September 24, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I don't think there should be a legendary open world armor. At least not with any suggestions I've seen.

But just to play around, if I were to make one, I think it should be around the Su-Won meta of difficulty. Like you would farm said meta and similar metas of a hypothetical Living Story Season 5. You'd also have to play through all of EoD content.

With that I could say 24 weeks.

However, I do not think anyone would actually take up this offer. But do correct me if I'm wrong.

You mean season 6 right Anet even admite that ibs is season 5.

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You mean season 6 right Anet even admite that ibs is season 5.

As a sufferer of irritable bowel  syndrome yes I did forget this.

But season 6 could get exciting if they wanna push the game, especially for our new Steam friends

Edited September 24, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Aelin.9317]

Well at least from the poll we see more support for the armour than people against, ofc people in support all give varying time to complete the set. 

I think a set for purely open world with a nice questline would be cool ^.^ Open world is something you can always do without worrying about needing a group or set time for. It feels like the most casual friendly to me.

Adventuring across all the maps to find some long lost armour plans would be fun! I am really loving the open world as I play right now 🙂 

More ways for people to play seems nice to me at least.

 

[Glacial.9516]

I voted 0-5 weeks because if the premise is that you have already grinded/purchased all of the materials/items you can (including acquiring any existing currencies you may need) and the only thing left is a forced time gate, it needn't be particularly long. Most of the effort/time would presumably come from grinding out currencies/materials and finishing collections rather than from arbitrary "Wait 3 weeks to complete this step" portions. Additionally, some existing time gates (ie. ascended mats) can be bypassed with gold so any of those forms included would already be accounted for via the 'you have unlimited gold' stipulation. Starting from scratch with all maps unlocked and all knowledge of how/where to acquire the items or complete collections you need, and while gathering most or all of the materials yourself, I'd expect it to take ~6-9 months of semi-casual play (a couple of hours each day) to complete an open-world legendary armor. Which is about on par for WvW legendaries (22 weeks, 1450 pips per week, say 10 pips per tick, 5 minutes per tick = 145 x 5 = 725 minutes or ~12 hours per week (close to around 2 hours per day).

Edited September 24, 2022 by Glacial.9516

[Gehenna.3625]

1 minute ago, Glacial.9516 said:

I voted 0-5 weeks because if the premise is that you have already grinded/purchased all of the materials/items you can (including acquiring any existing currencies you may need) and the only thing left is a forced time gate, it needn't be particularly long. Most of the effort/time would presumably come from grinding out currencies/materials and finishing collections rather than from arbitrary "Wait 3 weeks to complete this step" portions. Additionally, some existing time gates (ie. ascended mats) can be bypassed with gold so any of those forms included would already be accounted for via the 'you have unlimited gold' stipulation. Starting from scratch with all maps unlocked and all knowledge of how/where to acquire the items you need and gathering (most) of them yourself, I'd expect it to take ~6-9 months of semi-casual play (a couple of hours each day) to complete an open-world legendary armor.

But the forced time gate for WvW is 22 weeks or more. Not attacking you but genuinely curious if you considered how long it takes in WvW in your vote.

[Glacial.9516]

52 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

But the forced time gate for WvW is 22 weeks or more. Not attacking you but genuinely curious if you considered how long it takes in WvW in your vote.

I did consider the 22 week WvW time gate and I would be fully in support of lowering it (ideally in a way that favors waiting but doesn't force it), which is rather high compared to the time invested in WvW to accomplish it each week. (Spoiler tag because this is a bit off topic):

Spoiler

One method of doing so might be to add Skirmish Tickets to the Diamond chest. For example, 7 tickets per chest would reduce the ticket efficiency to 50% after you complete the reward track. The initial 365 tickets require 1450 pips, which at ~10 per tick will be 725 minutes. The next 1430 pips (715 minutes) will reward 26 chests or 182 tickets.

If someone played 8 hours of WvW per day, they could acquire... (56 hours. 12 for the initial 365 tickets. 44 hours remaining at 120 pips per hour = 5280 pips = 96 Diamond chests (55 each) = 672 tickets, or 1037 per week (at 8 hours per day) reducing the wait to 7.6 weeks.

Personally I tend to favor systems that have both time and work oriented tasks. The tasks that are time-gated should reward a disproportionately high number of needed items because they are limited to once per day/week/etc. which enables players with less playtime to make progress on the item, whilst the work oriented tasks ensure it's not gated behind "Wait X day/weeks" to the detriment of those players who can devote more time. I do think 0-5 weeks would be extremely low for completing a set of legendary armor, but the question was stipulated as "What is the minimum time required?" which I took to mean the minimum time-gate assuming unlimited effort to put toward it.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Glacial.9516

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Aelin.9317 said:

Well at least from the poll we see more support for the armour than people against, ofc people in support all give varying time to complete the set. 

I think a set for purely open world with a nice questline would be cool ^.^ Open world is something you can always do without worrying about needing a group or set time for. It feels like the most casual friendly to me.

Adventuring across all the maps to find some long lost armour plans would be fun! I am really loving the open world as I play right now 🙂 

More ways for people to play seems nice to me at least.

 

How can you not do this currently with the wvw armor?

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

How can you not do this currently with the wvw armor?

I have friends who play WvW regularly and they have everything they need to get legendary armor without doing anything they wouldn't normally do.  By the same token, asking a person who doesn't like WvW to WvW for 10-20 hours a week for X number of weeks is asking someone to buy a game and then doing something he doesn't want, possibly for all their game time, for weeks on end.  Do you buy games to play areas of the game you don't enjoy?  I know I don't.

Of course it's possible to do it. But if you end up burning out hating the game and leaving, it doesn't help you much. I got one piece of WvW legendary armor, before I moved to PvP where I got two pieces.   I'd rather PvP but that's not particularly fun for me either.

It doesn't even matter if you win or lose, either in WvW or PvP, because it's just waiting for pips.  So why should a PvE'er who doesn't add anything to those formats anyway, be forced into that area, to not enjoy it, not contribute to their team meaningfully and still get the armor, while sacrificing their fun, while a PvP or WvWer can do what they want every day all day and just get it by playing?  Seems off to me.

 

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I have friends who play WvW regularly and they have everything they need to get legendary armor without doing anything they wouldn't normally do.  By the same token, asking a person who doesn't like WvW to WvW for 10-20 hours a week for X number of weeks is asking someone to buy a game and then doing something he doesn't want, possibly for all their game time, for weeks on end.  Do you buy games to play areas of the game you don't enjoy?  I know I don't.

Of course it's possible to do it. But if you end up burning out hating the game and leaving, it doesn't help you much. I got one piece of WvW legendary armor, before I moved to PvP where I got two pieces.   I'd rather PvP but that's not particularly fun for me either.

It doesn't even matter if you win or lose, either in WvW or PvP, because it's just waiting for pips.  So why should a PvE'er who doesn't add anything to those formats anyway, be forced into that area, to not enjoy it, not contribute to their team meaningfully and still get the armor, while sacrificing their fun, while a PvP or WvWer can do what they want every day all day and just get it by playing?  Seems off to me.

 

Yeah, very much this.

 

The "there's already PvE armour" argument always seems silly to me when it's talking about raids, because raids are obviously nothing like Open World (especially due to the need to find a group for a set time, at a set time).  However, it is perfectly legitimate to say that the casual drop in/drop out already exists in WvW.

 

The problem with that is just that it's really boring if you don't like WvW, and you need to spend a huge amount of time in it.  The point of Open World Legendary armour should be to give OW an option they actually enjoy.

[Gerebos.1065]

First when I saw the last option I was like ''WoW,wtf'' ... Now when I see the results and it's second top now I am just like ''Wtf'' ...

[Nico.9361]

Oups, I didn't read all the options and voted for last one.
I think we don't need an Open World set, we already have multiple options available (across 3 game modes). Raiding isn't that much effort as ppl paint it to be.
But what do I know... I already got my set. If ppl want super easy mode... I don't care.

[Funky.4861]

Your base assumptions are off the charts and not casual-friendly at all. Theoretically it takes 5 weeks for the first pve set, followed by 10 weeks for additional sets, ASSUMING PERFECT CLEARS EVERY WEEK.. Yes, you can buy 'clears' but in doing so you know you're just a parasite. That's just one aspect of pve armour aquisition though- there are the personal account-bound collections to do also, but in your OP you don't say what one has to do during those however-many weeks of  'casual play'.

 

You're also assuming optimised wvw play- if you're a pve'er, you won't be doing that. You won't have the rank, the build, the skills, the experience to ease your wvw play and will be likely getting 5-7 pips per tick at max participation. Thusly, it will take an extraordinarily long time to get your wvw set compared to raids/pvp.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

28 minutes ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

Oups, I didn't read all the options and voted for last one.
I think we don't need an Open World set, we already have multiple options available (across 3 game modes). Raiding isn't that much effort as ppl paint it to be.
But what do I know... I already got my set. If ppl want super easy mode... I don't care.

I don't want to derail this thread with another debate on whether Open World should have armour, but just to clarify, a lot of people's issue with raiding isn't that they want "super easy", it's that finding a group that will take new players is difficult, especially if your time to game is limited/unpredictable.  Open World is much better for that because you can log in and play at times that work for you (which is one reason why WvW is such a popular alternative, though the weekly max and backloading of tickets causes issues there too).

 

In my ideal world I'd personally love solo raid difficulty content that I could just log in and work on myself.  But that seems highly unlikely to happen, so Open World is the next best thing.

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It doesn't even matter if you win or lose, either in WvW or PvP, because it's just waiting for pips.  So why should a PvE'er who doesn't add anything to those formats anyway, be forced into that area, to not enjoy it, not contribute to their team meaningfully and still get the armor, while sacrificing their fun, while a PvP or WvWer can do what they want every day all day and just get it by playing?  Seems off to me.

Because the devs can balance your pve opponents to their liking and they can't do the same with opponents that are, you know, other players. Hence the pretty obvious difference in reward systems between the modes.

 

7 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

The problem with that is just that it's really boring if you don't like WvW, and you need to spend a huge amount of time in it.  The point of Open World Legendary armour should be to give OW an option they actually enjoy.

Due to how this game works and what it's balanced around, there's no "should" here. Play more of the game's content to get more rewards or don't and keep playing with exotics/ascended gear perfectly fine.

1 hour ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I don't want to derail this thread with another debate on whether Open World should have armour, but just to clarify, a lot of people's issue with raiding isn't that they want "super easy", it's that finding a group that will take new players is difficult, especially if your time to game is limited/unpredictable

No, it's not. People can do what they want and check lfg once in a while to stumble into training/no req squads. Someone's "time to game being unpredictable" still -just like in the last thread about it- doesn't change much here.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Because the devs can balance your pve opponents to their liking and they can't do the same with opponents that are, you know, other players. Hence the pretty obvious difference in reward systems between the modes.

 

Due to how this game works and what it's balanced around, there's no "should" here. Play more of the game's content to get more rewards or don't and keep playing with exotics/ascended gear perfectly fine.

No, it's not. People can do what they want and check lfg once in a while to stumble into training/no req squads. Someone's "time to game being unpredictable" still -just like in the last thread about it- doesn't change much here.

I appreciate the response, but I think we learned from the last thread that these conversations are unproductive, so I'm just going to state up front I'm not going to derail this one by engaging. 

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

I appreciate the response, but I think we learned from the last thread that these conversations are unproductive, so I'm just going to state up front I'm not going to derail this one by engaging. 

Out of two previous posts on this page you've talked about reasoning of what you want (or reasoning for why other players don't want it) in... both of them. Looks like an interesting take on avoiding whatever goes against your opinion, while still wanting to voice yours.

Btw reasoning about not wanting it is well within the context of the poll, so I'm not sure how it qualifies as a derail, but sure, whatever you say. 😉

Edited September 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Khisanth.2948]

On 9/24/2022 at 1:32 AM, A Hamster.2580 said:

The time gate for PvP legendary armor is hard to calculate but seems to be even longer than WvW.

That is actually not so hard to do based on the time gating. The easiest way to handle this is to consider the combination of "1 full season, 1 2v2, another full season, 1 3v3" as a single "cycle". A single cycle would then equal 245 tickets(185 + 10x4(tickets from achievements) + 10x2(llamas), except ANet forgot mini season 6. Each cycle is 20 weeks long. So 12.25 tickets per week

6 piece of armor x 50 tickets per armor is 300 tickets for a full set.

300 / 12.25  => 24.48 => 25 weeks assuming ANet stops forgetting about mini-season rewards

 

The real trickery in this comparison is the amount of play time per week needed to reach their respective caps.

For raid and PvP you can reduce that time by being higher skilled but for WvW you are shackled to the tick rate. On the other hand WvW can be done solo whereas raids and PvP needs other people around which means time taken up in queue/LFG.

Edit: adjusted calculations due to forgetting some sources of tickets

Edited September 25, 2022 by Khisanth.2948

[ArchonWing.9480]

13 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

So why should a PvE'er who doesn't add anything to those formats anyway, be forced into that area, to not enjoy it, not contribute to their team meaningfully and still get the armor, while sacrificing their fun, while a PvP or WvWer can do what they want every day all day and just get it by playing? 

Because there is no "forcing" on a optional reward. It is not reasonable to assure that you will like every aspect of farming a certain reward. I would like them to remove all the Jumping Puzzles from the legendary trinkets but rest assured they're not going anywhere.

Also not contributing is also a user choice too. Just because you don't want to be here is not an excuse for leeching.  Back when I used to do pvp dailies I would at least try to do something even if I didn't really like it. It's disrespectful to everyone else involved in pvp, raids, strikes, fractals,  wvw, meta events  just because you're making it about yourself.

And even if they should introduce Open World legendary armor you still won't get to pick and choose.

Edited September 25, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480