why is there no solo end-game content?

[Urud.4925]

1 hour ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

I agree there is solo content but what is being asked for is difficult instanced solo content. 

 

Heres a ez way to make it rewarding while not effecting other aspects of the game- Every 5-10 lvls (depends on the amount of lvls) you get a reward. Could be anything from 1-6 MC (depending on the lvl) to ascended trinkets on first clear and the higher level maybe ascended armor. After the first clear you can only get a daily reward from one lvl, being the max lvl you can do. 2g, tiered mats and a chance at ascended gear would be fine enough rewards while also not trivializing other content. 

 

Gw2 is a game where you go in and play what you want and get rewarded for it. It is one of the main features. The fact that you're saying they shouldn't reward people for it is beyond me. You said it yourself, a big part of a MMO is making gold so you're pretty much asking them to put in the content but in a way that will have it dead within a couple weeks of release. 

I think the two things asked in this thread (challenging and rewarding) are mixed together just to justify them one another.

1) Challenging solo content: I think the most challenging solo content that we have is Turai Ossa. Now, how many of you kill him on a daily basis, during the festival of the 4 winds? I'm curious. Do you fight him because you genuinely like the fight, or once you got the achievement you stopped because it's not rewarding? Be honest. I killed him only once.

2) Rewarding solo content: I said that most of the people play MMOs to farm gold, as their goal, but I didn't say that GW2 should reward solo farming. I said that if the solo farming is too profitable, too many players will start doing it, reducing the players for the open world metas and world bosses, that are the strenght of this game imo. Clearing 8 dungeons gives 5 gold (for 20-30 minutes each, with pugs, depending on the players' experience). A solo instance should NOT reward more. 1-6 MC is way too much. 60-80 silver for 20 minutes is fine.

If you wouldn't bother for such low reward, it means that you are looking for a way to farm gold alone, not a challenging solo content. In this case, there are games that are specifically designed for this, like Black Desert Online.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

13 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

I think the two things asked in this thread (challenging and rewarding) are mixed together just to justify them one another.

1) Challenging solo content: I think the most challenging solo content that we have is Turai Ossa. Now, how many of you kill him on a daily basis, during the festival of the 4 winds? I'm curious. Do you fight him because you genuinely like the fight, or once you got the achievement you stopped because it's not rewarding? Be honest. I killed him only once.

2) Rewarding solo content: I said that most of the people play MMOs to farm gold, as their goal, but I didn't say that GW2 should reward solo farming. I said that if the solo farming is too profitable, too many players will start doing it, reducing the players for the open world metas and world bosses, that are the strenght of this game imo. Clearing 8 dungeons gives 5 gold (for 20-30 minutes each, with pugs, depending on the players' experience). A solo instance should NOT reward more. 1-6 MC is way too much. 60-80 silver for 20 minutes is fine.

If you wouldn't bother for such low reward, it means that you are looking for a way to farm gold alone, not a challenging solo content. In this case, there are games that are specifically designed for this, like Black Desert Online.

60-80 silver for 20 minutes?  2.5 gold per hour?  That is an order of magnitude lower than even Open World farms, and Strikes are higher still.

 

Setting it lower than other gold making methods is one thing (but the same logic would apply to small group content, who also aren't doing metas in that moment), but this is just making it feel like an actual waste of time.

 

If there's such a worry that people will only play solo content given the option (which if true should be fairly indicative of what the player base actually wants), then just set the rewards to a normal level but add a daily cap.  Just as other instanced mode rewards work.

 

Also, dungeons give rewards for each completion, alongside the 8 dungeon reward, so that calculation seems way off.

[SlayerXX.7138]

22 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

There is a lot of solo content/goals/rewards already in the game. GW2 is a very solo player friendly game. What else do you want?

Something that is engaging. Most PvE solo content is either toddler level or mindless grind often times both. GW 2 has such a nice combat system so i can tag mobs in metas? Mindlessly walk through a story instance one hit killing stuff?

Doesn't even need to be Resource intensive. Just scale some story bosses for a non toddler and let me access the fight without grinding through the story again. Take a champion add an ability or two(which already exist) maybe add some adds and decrease HP a little. There is quite a bit of content you can create with some  number adjustments and reusing assets. It's an MMORPG give my character something to fight in his own weight class.

Make an open arena like queen gauntlet. I don't see how that is any less MMO then the silent Metas going on. 

  

[Draygo.9473]

Personal story is basically GW2's solo content. Which gets expanded every living world season and expansion.

 

I would support a 'hard mode' for personal story where everything is tougher. It would take dev time and I would also support it being a bit more rewarding to do. Anet might have also considered it and probably determined it isnt worth the dev time.

 

As far as current repeatable solo content: DRM's. The problem from anet's prospective is why you say you want more hard soloable content, the majority of the player base does not gravitate to such things. Anet has the stats, they know where the money is and they will continue to cater to that audience more so than what you desire. 

 

As far as this thread, the OP is taking an unfalsifiable position so, arguing isn't going to get you anywhere and probably wont be productive. 

 

In EoD anet has been smarter about setting up fights giving you multiple challenge levels, Personal Story - Strike - Strike CM. I wouldnt mind if anet added Personal Story CM as a step. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

41 minutes ago, Draygo.9473 said:

As far as current repeatable solo content: DRM's. The problem from anet's prospective is why you say you want more hard soloable content, the majority of the player base does not gravitate to such things. Anet has the stats, they know where the money is and they will continue to cater to that audience more so than what you desire. 

They don't really have datapoints in that regard as there is no hard solo content in the game. They just have loud complains, when story(somewhat main/mandatory content) is to hard and stay on the side of caution. Drms aren't solo content, they are "dungeon" content that just happens to scale nicely for solo and even then fails thanks to the Groupfinder mechanic at the start.

Anet doesn't know if I soloed arrowhead in auric basin or just tagged it while other people did it. I Also doubt they track group numbers for dungeon or fractals to check if they are soloed.

Its a Risk the probably won't take. But to interpret Anet inaction to do something  as prove for truth seems somewhat misguided. Especially after the leaks. 

If you disagree on principal or another better reason sure. But pls don't sell DRM's as intended solo content. Or their failure, which has so many reason as a failure of solo content. Because they aren't solo content.

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Ashen.2907]

23 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

You argue that I don't know how much resourcing it would take, but you do claim to know that whatever team/dev that is asked to do this is currently working on group content?  How do you know what they're being directed towards?

Because you have stated that this would be part of the development of said content. If the group design needs to take solo design into consideration during the development process, even to a small degree, then the suggestion impacts resources allocated to group content. You are asking that those instances that already have existing solo story and group versions have a second solo version added.

Resources are finite.

[Sobx.1758]

44 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Drms aren't solo content, they are "dungeon" content that just happens to scale nicely for solo

Content "scaling nicely for solo" isn't a coincidence and jsut because it also scales into group content, it doesn't make it any less solo/able.

[Ashgar.3024]

Wat.

 

This game has like 60 maps to explore and constant meta events rotation all doable on your own.

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Content "scaling nicely for solo" isn't a coincidence

Its isn't. They scale to group size. They never were indented for a group of 1. DRMs were budget dungeon and Strikes were budget Raids. The MANDETORY 5 MIN GROUPFINDER Segment should have tipped you off , that it is indeed group content. I can dribble around 10 ten years old and kick the ball in a goal. That doesn't make football suddenly a solo sport.

If you disagree with solo content being added fine. But there has to be a better argument to be made, then deluding yourself into thinking drms were designed to be solo content. Fractals are better solo content then drms for crying out loud. Does that make fractals designed solo content too?

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Its isn't. They scale to group size. They never were indented for a group of 1. DRMs were budget dungeon and Strikes were budget Raids. The MANDETORY 5 MIN GROUPFINDER Segment should have tipped you off , that it is indeed group content.

Sure, mate. And what should have tipped you off was the way it was clearly spelled out by anet:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-icebrood-saga-champions/

Quote

Each chapter of The Icebrood Saga: Champions introduces new Dragon Response Missions, which can be tackled solo or in a group of up to five players.

 

No, the way they "scale nicely for solo" is not a coincidence, it was intentionally made to be soloable.

...btw, you can join drms alone -without a fake empty squad- in a private instance, where there's still the pre-event active despite nobody being able to join you. In public version it sure is an opportunity for other players to join, but it still clearly is also meant to be soloed. On entrance, it also spells out "recommended players: 1-5". Not sure how much more proof you need, hopefully at this point it's absolutely clear for you.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Beast Sos.1457]

4 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

I think the two things asked in this thread (challenging and rewarding) are mixed together just to justify them one another.

1) Challenging solo content: I think the most challenging solo content that we have is Turai Ossa. Now, how many of you kill him on a daily basis, during the festival of the 4 winds? I'm curious. Do you fight him because you genuinely like the fight, or once you got the achievement you stopped because it's not rewarding? Be honest. I killed him only once.

2) Rewarding solo content: I said that most of the people play MMOs to farm gold, as their goal, but I didn't say that GW2 should reward solo farming. I said that if the solo farming is too profitable, too many players will start doing it, reducing the players for the open world metas and world bosses, that are the strenght of this game imo. Clearing 8 dungeons gives 5 gold (for 20-30 minutes each, with pugs, depending on the players' experience). A solo instance should NOT reward more. 1-6 MC is way too much. 60-80 silver for 20 minutes is fine.

Anything in life gets stale once done enough. Rewards are pretty much the spice that keeps people doing the content. It applies to almost all facets of life. If there is no results/reward, outside of the initial mastering phase, then things get stale. I will run it a bunch of times, but outside of that initial learning and master phase, it will just become routine. It's human nature. I also beat Turai Ossa on my full berserk warrior. I personally didn't find it hard.  

 

So you're telling me 2g a hour is good when people are farming 20-50g a hour? "If you wouldn't bother for such low reward, it means that you are looking for a way to farm gold alone, not a challenging solo content. In this case, there are games that are specifically designed for this, like Black Desert Online." That absolutely wrong. Look at all these single player games like Dark souls for example. People buy them, play them, then stop when they finish the story. Does that mean that they didn't want actual difficult content? No. It just means they beat the game. With a MMO, they don't want people to beat the game, its meant to have extreme longevity. Without proper rewards, 99% of people wouldn't bother outside the first experience. 

 

Edit: Dungeons are old content Anet abandoned which makes it a horrible measurement to what new content should reward. Thats probably the worst example you can use. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Beast Sos.1457

[SlayerXX.7138]

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Sure, mate. And what should have tipped you off was the way it was clearly spelled out by anet:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-icebrood-saga-champions/

kitten my life I stand corrected. Who in their right mind thought forcing a 5 minute wait to start your potential "solo" content was a good idea. Well if that is the best Anet can muster I changed my mind.

I would still argue it still ALSO group content and failed for other reasons(rewards that fall in value etc.). But that is beside the point, its probably better they never make "solo" content if that is their idea of it.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Albi.7250

[ArchonWing.9480]

37 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Its isn't. They scale to group size.

That's an incredibly pointless distinction.

Scaling content means it can be solo'ed or grouped. Why would you remove the scaling that offers zero advantages over the former?

I mean you can do story instances in a party too...

Edited September 28, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[JayMadIV.8721]

I have always thought that since they aren't doing anything else with Dungeons, and Fractals/Strikes/Raids are their preferred group end-game content, that Dungeons should be repurposed and rebalanced to be Endgame-Level Solo content.

 

Basically slide Dungeons into the spot that things like Maelstrom Arena and Vateshran Hollows occupy in Elder Scrolls Online as Aspirational Content for Solo players.

 

Story Mode being Normal, and Explorable Paths being "Veteran".

 

Dungeons are abandoned content, so why not repurpose it in a way that makes it more relevant?

[Linken.6345]

49 minutes ago, JayMadIV.8721 said:

I have always thought that since they aren't doing anything else with Dungeons, and Fractals/Strikes/Raids are their preferred group end-game content, that Dungeons should be repurposed and rebalanced to be Endgame-Level Solo content.

 

Basically slide Dungeons into the spot that things like Maelstrom Arena and Vateshran Hollows occupy in Elder Scrolls Online as Aspirational Content for Solo players.

 

Story Mode being Normal, and Explorable Paths being "Veteran".

 

Dungeons are abandoned content, so why not repurpose it in a way that makes it more relevant?

But alot of them already are soloable these as an example.

 

[Ashen.2907]

5 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

Its isn't. They scale to group size. They never were indented for a group of 1. DRMs were budget dungeon and Strikes were budget Raids. The MANDETORY 5 MIN GROUPFINDER Segment should have tipped you off , that it is indeed group content. I can dribble around 10 ten years old and kick the ball in a goal. That doesn't make football suddenly a solo sport.

If you disagree with solo content being added fine. But there has to be a better argument to be made, then deluding yourself into thinking drms were designed to be solo content. Fractals are better solo content then drms for crying out loud. Does that make fractals designed solo content too?

Edit: Saw your retraction too late. Sorry.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[JayMadIV.8721]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

But alot of them already are soloable these as an example.

 

I'm sure that the 50 best players in the game can solo them all right now.

"Soloable" and "Designed for Solo Play" are not the same thing.

Esoterickk solos all of the most difficult group content in Destiny 2, but that does not mean they are designed for Solo players.

I'm not saying that Dungeons are the hardest content. Only that they aren't designed for Solo play, and I wish they were,  because groups don't play them anymore anyway, Anet has abandoned them, and AFAIK at this point they serve no purpose. This would give them purpose and make them relevant to the current game in at least some fashion.

Edited September 29, 2022 by JayMadIV.8721

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, JayMadIV.8721 said:

 

I'm sure that the 50 best players in the game can solo them all right now.

 

"Soloable" and "Designed for Solo Play" are not the same thing.

 

Esoterickk solos all of the most difficult group content in Destiny 2, but that does not mean they are designed for Solo players.

True, but "a lot" is not a claim about, "all."

There is a ton of (designed for) solo content already in the game. More is added with almost every content patch. If that is not enough, if having the vast majority of developmemt already being directed to solo play is not enough, then going after content such as those group instances that can be soloed is an option. One option among many.

[Linken.6345]

44 minutes ago, JayMadIV.8721 said:

 

I'm sure that the 50 best players in the game can solo them all right now.

"Soloable" and "Designed for Solo Play" are not the same thing.

Esoterickk solos all of the most difficult group content in Destiny 2, but that does not mean they are designed for Solo players.

I'm not saying that Dungeons are the hardest content. Only that they aren't designed for Solo play, and I wish they were,  because groups don't play them anymore anyway, Anet has abandoned them, and AFAIK at this point they serve no purpose. This would give them purpose and make them relevant to the current game in at least some fashion.

Have you tried putting up a dungeon lfg pretty sure there are plenty of new players that would like to do dungeons with other people but refuse to advertise for it.

And that is why the lfg look dead to everyone.

[HowlKamui.5120]

Try out Dragon Response Missions. Make sure you have the relevant mastery leveled (so they are worth running). They're one of the fun solo content you're looking for.

 

I also play ESO and one thing I like there is the solo arenas. I've been looking for something that feels like those in GW2, and while there is nothing that offers the same experience, challenge mode DRMs come pretty close. 

You get to play relatively new challenging content that lets you practice your build.

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Content "scaling nicely for solo" isn't a coincidence and jsut because it also scales into group content, it doesn't make it any less solo/able.

It may scale for solo (although how well this works out differs massively between each DRMs - some scale better, some scale worse), it may even have been announced to be for solo and group play, but it's clearly not designed for solo. The preevents especially are group content - and one meant purely for the public instances (because their purpose is to act as a grouping countdown, which is not relevant in a private instance where waiting time and grouping is completely managed by players themselves. And especially not relevant for a solo player that obviously needs a grouping event even less).

[Drunkfrank.8795]

Absolutely ridiculous to see people still using the same tired old retort of "well what do you expect, ItS aN mMoRpG" 

Completely out of touch, that does nott mean that literally everything has to be massive multiplayer content, it means that the game is a shared world with massive amounts of players, there should ABSOLUTELY be a feature designed for solo players imo, be it some kind of roguelite or single player boss rush, idk

How about this?
Take the major story bosses, Mordremoth, Balthazar, Joko, etc etc. and put them in an mists instance

you start and it goes floor after floor, the boss you fight is random but will have mutators and random mechanics thrown in the higher you go.

Can have 10 levels to start, and over time 15, 20, 25, 30, whatever.

Boom, potentially fun solo content, but people are instead gonna say "WTF, I THOUGHT THIS WAS AN MMO????"

I rarely see solo players whine about multiplayer content that doesnt affect them, always see multiplayer players whine about content that doesn't affect them.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

1 hour ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

Try out Dragon Response Missions. Make sure you have the relevant mastery leveled (so they are worth running). They're one of the fun solo content you're looking for.

 

I also play ESO and one thing I like there is the solo arenas. I've been looking for something that feels like those in GW2, and while there is nothing that offers the same experience, challenge mode DRMs come pretty close. 

You get to play relatively new challenging content that lets you practice your build.

Do you really enjoy DRMs?  I've tried getting into them as a solo option and the first half/two thirds of all of them is so dull (and the last third only sometimes better).  Especially the bit at the beginning where you're supposed to be messing about while the party fills.

[HowlKamui.5120]

20 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Do you really enjoy DRMs?  I've tried getting into them as a solo option and the first half/two thirds of all of them is so dull (and the last third only sometimes better).  Especially the bit at the beginning where you're supposed to be messing about while the party fills.

Yeah I unironically do. Some missions better than others though. Also, I don't spam just one type of content all the time. Felt like I needed to point that out.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

11 minutes ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

Yeah I unironically do. Some missions better than others though. Also, I don't spam just one type of content all the time. Felt like I needed to point that out.

Fair enough!  Glad someone's enjoying them 😄