Maguuma needs dealt with.

[displayname.8315]

5 hours ago, Counterakt.9106 said:

I have been part of Mag cloud since I started wvw. I am now part of the AR 'cloud' if you can call it that 🙂 . Any server will spawn camp if they don't have better content.

The objective of the game is winning. Everyone tries to play to their advantage. One of the ways Mag has figured to win PPT is to take your keep during the dead timezone between SEA and NA prime and spawn camp you until na prime. Because if they don't, you hide from them in the bls. Spawn camping is pretty boring but threads like these make it almost worth it. To all the people who say there are other exits etc., it doesn't work like that. Most good players log off if they are getting spawn camped and are outnumbered. What is left is the casuals who try to get participation for the week. They keep rallybotting until the rest of the good players log off as well if they don't get good content. You never get critical mass to take back your stuff, until a guild group logs in, because people see the state of affairs and log off in 5 minutes or go pve. That is the right thing to do as well in that situation. The few rare times Mag itself has been spawn camped, that is their response as well. They just log off to play other games or alts or go pve. Or get on your teef/ranger/dh and play the pew pew game in spawn try to score a kill with a pull or a snipe. Trust me no better way to hone your stunbreak reflex 🙂 There are kills to be had, some always over push. Don't complain about spawn camping -  you get participation, you have the spawn advantage, you don't have to go look for content. Just wait for critical mass before attempting to take back your keep and don't feed. 

To people who are saying that Mag is coming into bls as well, that seems to be true of late. My guess is that the whole alliancing stuff kinda left the 'cloud' players, server moms and roamers in other servers without a cause to fight for their home servers and made them consolidate in Mag giving it more coverage.

You forgot to mention the 4+ ballistas at spawn and 2-3 trebs inside keep.  That you think it has anything to do with strategy and not the obvious numbers game that it is says everything.

 

Most commanders looking for fights could care less about objectives and choose not to camp a dozen no-ranks cuz as you say it's boring.

 

You will always see a drop in numbers when a team is outnumbered, with no tag, and a dozen no-ranks feeding.  Has nothing to do with spawn camping that's just a lame thing that happens with no population balance 

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, displayname.8315 said:

happens with no population balance 

 

This is more just so we don't have as many shocked people after beta if they are newer to the forums since I see a lot of people saying Alliances will fix coverage which is not the same as balanced population. This issue will occur anytime there are coverage differences between any matchup. So the new logic might cover population and still not handle coverage unless they have started working on that where in the past they said that's down the road, not sure we are there yet. But to any pinning the new system to handle coverage, don't yet. If anything expect coverage to get worse at first as those more organized may have or are already making sure their group can handle coverage. Just food for thought.

[Counterakt.9106]

2 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

You forgot to mention the 4+ ballistas at spawn and 2-3 trebs inside keep.  That you think it has anything to do with strategy and not the obvious numbers game that it is says everything.

 

Sieges help them to hold both the spawns with very less man power. So they can go into bls to defend. why is that not a valid strategy? Sieges are part of the game too. 

It might seem unfair for you but Mag justification for this is, it serves you right running around in 50 man unkillable minstrel boon balls killing pugs. If that is fair then this is fair as well.

 

[displayname.8315]

1 hour ago, Counterakt.9106 said:

Sieges help them to hold both the spawns with very less man power. So they can go into bls to defend. why is that not a valid strategy? Sieges are part of the game too. 

It might seem unfair for you but Mag justification for this is, it serves you right running around in 50 man unkillable minstrel boon balls killing pugs. If that is fair then this is fair as well.

 

If it wasn't a stacking issue i would agree with you.  Anyone sticking to the boon ball would probably see it that way.  But if you roam or just play the map you see the actual numbers.  Number or guilds.. number of roamers.  Some linkups are populated and others have been left empty like an old mining town.

 

I played on mag too some and when it was a true roamer server staying in the T3 - T4 range the fights were much better IMO.  Getting linked with AR was questionable.  Just shows the need for a new matchup system.

T1 actually kinda decent this week, don't even think the issue is so much mag but mostly SoS and their spotty gameplay, their fights offerings aren't great and we all know how they stay in T1

Edited October 11, 2022 by displayname.8315

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 10/7/2022 at 5:08 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

As for players that want to act like lemming zombies and just keep running out the same main exit to their deaths, that's on them

^^ I see this happen so much. I dont get it.

[LetoII.3782]

1 hour ago, displayname.8315 said:

If it wasn't a stacking issue i would agree with you.  Anyone sticking to the boon ball would probably see it that way.  But if you roam or just play the map you see the actual numbers.  Number or guilds.. number of roamers.  Some linkups are populated and others have been left empty like an old mining town.

 

There's no population that wouldn't/can't queue EB... when it's winning.

People only wanting to participate in the wins is a massive problem in the gaming universe as a whole though, no denying.

1 hour ago, displayname.8315 said:

I played on mag too some and when it was a true roamer server staying in the T3 - T4 range the fights were much better IMO.  Getting linked with AR was questionable.  Just shows the need for a new matchup system.

 

Definitely agree, Being turned into a destination diluted a unique culture.

 

[Gaige.7928]

2 hours ago, LetoII.3782 said:

unique culture

Certainly one way to describe it.

 

They definitely managed the highest slur per whisper of any server I played against back in the day, thats for sure.

[SFShinigami.1572]

Unique culture of people tired of carrying randoms so they stack where other people are tired of carrying randoms and thus create a hyper concentrated server of people with higher than average skill farming a mixture of people who like a challenge and who, for whatever reason, aren't as good, while also outnumbering them.

 

I really don't understand why someone would find that interesting.  Where is the challenge when you both outnumber and outskill your opponent?  Really all that happens is you lose your edge just end up being carried by numbers, anyway.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

Mag doesn't outskill. No no no, they once were a bit more skilled years ago, but since then they have become this hybrid of stack siege (even in open field) and hide behind it, and a bunch of longbow rangers and condi DHs. Outside of that everyone that can possible can runs a pull, so they can pull one player and 5 others can kill him. 

NOW, there isn't TECHNICALLY anything wrong with this, BUT, that isn't skill. Sorry. 

It is a different playstyle for sure and there needs to be some credit where credit is due. They are trying something different. /clap

The thing is, it's not Mags fault for this really, it is Anet for the poor balance and lack of attention to the game mode. It is also players fault for just running endlessly out to " Skirmish" I have heard some call it, but really it is just getting farmed and ignoring other objectives in the game mode while havoc groups run around and cap everything.

The funny thing is, that the overall awareness and game knowledge of most players in the game mode has dropped significantly to point where MAG is actually relevant and a topic to be discussed. Even when I or other players try to help and make suggestions like, go out another way or hey don't stand on the edge they gonna pull you, or don't run glass, first run tanky to learn to spanky. Things like siege placement, call outs, positioning, proper builds, map awareness or actual combat tactics are just forgotten or ignored. Nobody listens anyway. 

So, yeah, WvW has real problems, but I don't think Mag is really one of them. For example, if Anet delinks and opens all the servers, then what happens?  Well, Mag goes bye bye. 

Here is one more piece of food for thought, what would happen if there were actual rewards for winning the weekly matchup?

[X T D.6458]

2 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Here is one more piece of food for thought, what would happen if there were actual rewards for winning the weekly matchup?

 

It was tried before; the result was server stacking and player burnout. Although there is some benefit (for some at least) in getting a desired placement in a matchup, to avoid a potential matchup for next week or avoid Red Bl for the week 😐

[X T D.6458]

On 10/7/2022 at 3:10 PM, displayname.8315 said:

Just left AR myself man it's boring when the playerbase all stacks.  Not much going on in the fights department.. T2 was kinda OK at certain times...  *Yawn*

 

I don't have much time for WvW nowadays, but Ill stay when I see some big fights going on. No fights=no fun basically. I have been on AR for 3 years now and I have thought about floating around every now and then, not that there is an issue with AR but seems like it would be fun to play with different people and guilds once in awhile.

 

Siege stacking, spawn camping, upgrading enemy EB keeps, juvenile meme heavy nonsensical and idiotic chat spam.... Not for me

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

if there was rewards, there'd be just many servers that are stronger than maguuma. u can farm MAG pretty easy;
often its just the "wrong people" making EBG full but on the same hand ~10 ppl only crying or  15~ afking at spawn. or getting farmed (often 10-15 randoms against a 30+ sized cloud with siege on top while not even having dps for 1 of the kite builds that the MAG clowns often have) .. bc they walk alone into 10 players. its not hard to farm u like that, every better newbie could pull that

like, i've seen that recently several times around prime, i don't understand you people. u roleplay as lootbag or what? whats the point on stubbornly running into far more people that are mechanically over your head?

and again, MAG isn't really a good server. just a big cloud, zero structure, mostly bad classes that try to kite till uganda and gank there, it's nothing new within wvw

but ye, those who complain about MAG or think that they are strong usually run bad classes, bad builds and uncoordinated.  100% never done gvg, bvb (rvr in NA, zerg or blob fights) or any other competitive largescale battles

[displayname.8315]

1 hour ago, X T D.6458 said:

It was tried before; the result was server stacking and player burnout.

I think they actually got it right by the third tournament.  Gaining the rewards through the competitive achievements tab so each person got them on their own.

 

Maybe the gold, silver, and bronze dolyak finishers were still server based but they were just a few charges for fun.

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Here is one more piece of food for thought, what would happen if there were actual rewards for winning the weekly matchup?

 

This. I admit I think this will impact things. Right now people have all their own reasons to win/lose a week. The up/down, the bragging rights. But for most there is no reason. To get people to want to win you need a reason. Now the counter argument is but it will lead to stacking. Ok, we already have that but most don't care and I think reasons to win will both make people more engaged to win and more reasons to spread out. That's also why we need to balance PPT and PPK. We need reasons to attack and too hold. There needs to be strategy to lose your T1 to take their T3, versus what we have now which is lose your T3 to take their T0. So winning needs meaning for more people. What we need to find out is what that is.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

After playing sPvP for a while I finally understand the logic to WvW as it's the same but on a larger scale.

No one defends, everyone runs around solo and gets stomped then respawns and keeps feeding, no tactics or player logic applied, then everyone blames something other than themselves.

Mag has a toxic culture but shouldn't be this impactful because the skill level is so bad.  I think it's a combination of opposing player skill lacking and anet meme'ing to give them great links each time to keep them anywhere near T1 or relevant.  

Edited October 12, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Doo Lally.8594]

Having played (again) last evening against a server that can stack 3 full maps blobs which are nigh unkillable under cannons, mortar and a nearly equivalent (but less organised pug group) blob on one map I think Mag have the right idea.

 

Why on earth would you play a game for 'fun' against an unkillable Minstrel boon blob. We need more (viable) diversity of play in WvW  - let me have my delusions 🙂.

 

 

[Hephreket.9023]

Mag is currently #3 versus SoS and BG with one day left in the match.   No problems here.

[Xenesis.6389]

12 minutes ago, Hephreket.9023 said:

Mag is currently #3 versus SoS and BG with one day left in the match.   No problems here.

You.. realize.... world.. restructuring... is.. tomorrow? matches.. this... week.. don't... matter?

[Austin.2048]

Crying about getting farmed again, guess what? SoS won ppt but had 15k less kills and Mag has 1.4 KDR 🤣dw SoS we'll continue farming you

[Alsandar.7420]

Mag is so bad. They just run away from fights. We take their keep in ebg everyday because they can’t effectively cloud in the lord’s room. 
 

They want smc so bad. But again, they won’t enter the lord’s room, because they know we’ll wipe them. So they just ram down the gate, leave it open, step back, and cloud. If you engage the cloud outside smc they just run.
 

This is all they do, day after day. Trying to wear us down.

 

Another good strategy against mag: go wherever they have ewp. Make them use ewp. Leave. Eat a snack. Now go back. They don’t have ewp. So they won’t defend it. Take it. Repeat.

[Labjax.2465]

On 10/11/2022 at 3:05 AM, Counterakt.9106 said:

I have been part of Mag cloud since I started wvw. I am now part of the AR 'cloud' if you can call it that 🙂 . Any server will spawn camp if they don't have better content.

The objective of the game is winning. Everyone tries to play to their advantage. One of the ways Mag has figured to win PPT is to take your keep during the dead timezone between SEA and NA prime and spawn camp you until na prime. Because if they don't, you hide from them in the bls. Spawn camping is pretty boring but threads like these make it almost worth it. To all the people who say there are other exits etc., it doesn't work like that. Most good players log off if they are getting spawn camped and are outnumbered. What is left is the casuals who try to get participation for the week. They keep rallybotting until the rest of the good players log off as well if they don't get good content. You never get critical mass to take back your stuff, until a guild group logs in, because people see the state of affairs and log off in 5 minutes or go pve. That is the right thing to do as well in that situation. The few rare times Mag itself has been spawn camped, that is their response as well. They just log off to play other games or alts or go pve. Or get on your teef/ranger/dh and play the pew pew game in spawn try to score a kill with a pull or a snipe. Trust me no better way to hone your stunbreak reflex 🙂 There are kills to be had, some always over push. Don't complain about spawn camping -  you get participation, you have the spawn advantage, you don't have to go look for content. Just wait for critical mass before attempting to take back your keep and don't feed. 

To people who are saying that Mag is coming into bls as well, that seems to be true of late. My guess is that the whole alliancing stuff kinda left the 'cloud' players, server moms and roamers in other servers without a cause to fight for their home servers and made them consolidate in Mag giving it more coverage.

If your goal is to win to the point the other team logs off and then you get bored with the result, well I think anet's design shares some of the responsibility, but at a certain point, it's like do you want an opponent to play against or to log off out of boredom with the feeling your server will be a winner for the week. Maybe it is the 2nd one for some people. I'm not as competitive as some people are, so it's hard for me to wrap my head around.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:01 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

After playing sPvP for a while I finally understand the logic to WvW as it's the same but on a larger scale.

No one defends, everyone runs around solo and gets stomped then respawns and keeps feeding, no tactics or player logic applied, then everyone blames something other than themselves.

Mag has a toxic culture but shouldn't be this impactful because the skill level is so bad.  I think it's a combination of opposing player skill lacking and anet meme'ing to give them great links each time to keep them anywhere near T1 or relevant.  

spvp matches are also really random. i low tiers there u cannot expect the people to know what even happens lel. and if u watch streams even pro spvpers like naru or vallun etc get sometimes just clapped bc their team excells at quick dying

 

i nearly never play spvp, but when harbinger was released i had a game where i literally made every single kill from our side, like 22 or more lol. it  was just lucky that our ppl were good at running, but there a billion of newbies playing it too.

[tobin.6754]

Mags are a bunch of tryhards that can only do hit and run tactic. Nobody that's any good would be on Mag.

[Austin.2048]

Up for them salty tears 

[Kozumi.5816]

Don't play WvW if they're against you. There is no other solution.