Terrorhuz.4695 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 IDK, just a small tip. Because that's the whole point of immobilize, you know. 18 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 loller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Not really. Usual dodges are basically evade paired with a movement. Like dodge forward, backward, etc... Vindicator have a static evade. Since immob prevents the target from moving, it can shutdow movements paired dodges but not static dodges. Haven't tested but I'm pretty sure mirage can dodge while immob too, reaver can dodge while immob too with earth sword #2 and twist of faith. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.8623 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said: Not really. Usual dodges are basically evade paired with a movement. Like dodge forward, backward, etc... Vindicator have a static evade. Since immob prevents the target from moving, it can shutdow movements paired dodges but not static dodges. Haven't tested but I'm pretty sure mirage can dodge while immob too, reaver can dodge while immob too with earth sword #2 and twist of faith. Yeah, but mirage doesn't dodge, it cloaks. I agree vindi shouldn't be able to do it under immobile 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: Yeah, but mirage doesn't dodge, it cloaks. I agree vindi shouldn't be able to do it under immobile I'm not saying it should or shouldn't. I'm just saying it's consistent with other similar dodges. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 30 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said: I'm not saying it should or shouldn't. I'm just saying it's consistent with other similar dodges. daredevil can't 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 What puzzles me is Anet forgetting immobilization before giving vindicator a second dodge. It's as if it hasn't been tested, yet fixes take ages to come. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: daredevil can't Daredevil also has mandatory movement when it dodges, which is what immobilize stops. Both mirage and vindicator remain in place when dodging if the player doesn't actively move themselves. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 6 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: Yeah, but mirage doesn't dodge, it cloaks. I agree vindi shouldn't be able to do it under immobile It says 'Evaded' when using Mirage Cloak to avoid attacks. There's no inconsistencies here. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Meta.3158 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Gotta have immobilize prevent vertical movement. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.8623 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 16 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said: It says 'Evaded' when using Mirage Cloak to avoid attacks. There's no inconsistencies here. Yes, but it is not an evade. Can you perform non-instant skills while using evade? Inconsistencies to be sure. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 43 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: Yes, but it is not an evade. Can you perform non-instant skills while using evade? Inconsistencies to be sure. Instant Reflexes - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) another evade that allows using non instant skills during. Not all evades are created equal, mirage cloak is absolutely an evade. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: Yes, but it is not an evade. Can you perform non-instant skills while using evade? Inconsistencies to be sure. At this point you are just arguing to argue. Here is what I've understood on how gw2 evades work : https://cloud.smartdraw.com/share.aspx/?pubDocShare=202CEA90879212B9815B537901430AEB79A 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 9:57 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said: IDK, just a small tip. Because that's the whole point of immobilize, you know. Aggressive Evassion essentially makes Vindicator invulnerable to any attemtp to restrain it. And Devastation is pretty much granted since Retribution is an absolute garbage traitline for Vindi at the moment.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.8623 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said: Instant Reflexes - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) another evade that allows using non instant skills during. Not all evades are created equal, mirage cloak is absolutely an evade. no, mirage cloak replaces dodge...literally the wording dude https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage_Cloak_(effect) Something that auto triggers, auto procs, isn't really "using" now is it? Semantics, I guess... 2 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said: At this point you are just arguing to argue. Here is what I've understood on how gw2 evades work : https://cloud.smartdraw.com/share.aspx/?pubDocShare=202CEA90879212B9815B537901430AEB79A Nah, you got cloak in the wrong tree. Cloak is called an effect. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge "dodging is a movement technique" If, I am right, why not argue? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 50 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: no, mirage cloak replaces dodge...literally the wording dude .... 51 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: Nah, you got cloak in the wrong tree. Cloak is called an effect. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge "dodging is a movement technique" If, I am right, why not argue? .....I don't know dude...I don't know... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raknar.4735 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: "dodging is a movement technique" The wiki is written by players, so i wouldn’t take what is written there as an official wording. Also mirage cloak doesn’t replace dodge, it replaces dodge rolling (literally the wording). If it were to replace dodge, traits like Elusive Mind wouldn’t work, as their effect is tied to dodging. It’s also funny to use the mirage cloak description, as the vindicator one is very similiar: ”Instead of dodging,…” (well, no rolling this time, just dodging) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tenacious_Ruin I guess vindicator doesn’t dodge, following your mirage cloak logic, it just “delivers a powerful blow from above”. Edited October 19, 2022 by Raknar.4735 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Just my 2 copper but no evade or dodge should work when you are immobilized unless it just so happens to clear the immobilize as part of the skill or from a trait. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 19 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: no, mirage cloak replaces dodge...literally the wording dude https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage_Cloak_(effect) Something that auto triggers, auto procs, isn't really "using" now is it? Semantics, I guess... Nah, you got cloak in the wrong tree. Cloak is called an effect. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge "dodging is a movement technique" If, I am right, why not argue? Do you use a skill for Mirage Cloak or do you press the DODGE button to get that effect? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.8623 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 14 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said: The wiki is written by players, so i wouldn’t take what is written there as an official wording. Also mirage cloak doesn’t replace dodge, it replaces dodge rolling (literally the wording). If it were to replace dodge, traits like Elusive Mind wouldn’t work, as their effect is tied to dodging. It’s also funny to use the mirage cloak description, as the vindicator one is very similiar: ”Instead of dodging,…” (well, no rolling this time, just dodging) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tenacious_Ruin I guess vindicator doesn’t dodge, following your mirage cloak logic, it just “delivers a powerful blow from above”. Mirage Cloak is an effect that replaces dodging for mesmers with the Mirage elite specialization. Instead of rolling to dodge, activating dodging provides Mirage Cloak effect to the user In game it says, gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling, also notice that you can see it on the effects bar when it is cast. As for the vindicator claim, you might be right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.8623 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Do you use a skill for Mirage Cloak or do you press the DODGE button to get that effect? Do you press a button to activate anything in GW2? Is a necro's 5, the same outcome as a thief's 5? Is a necro's utility the same if they swap what gets put there? Why is it hard to grasp that when you swap to mirage, you are choosing to swap what skill, movement, or effect is going into the V button? Cloak is an effect, case closed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raknar.4735 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: replaces dodging for mesmers with the Mirage elite specialization Dodging isn’t replaced, as Elusive Mind still works. Dodge rolling is replaced & you’re instead gaining the Mirage Cloak effect. “Dodging removes conditions.” (Ingame description)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind “Evade incoming attacks.” (Ingame description) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage_Cloak_(effect) So the following statements are incorrect: 21 hours ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: I am right On 10/17/2022 at 11:41 PM, Crab Fear.8623 said: Yeah, but mirage doesn't dodge On 10/18/2022 at 10:25 PM, Crab Fear.8623 said: Yes, but it is not an evade 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.8623 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said: Dodging isn’t replaced, as Elusive Mind still works. Dodge rolling is replaced & you’re instead gaining the Mirage Cloak effect. “Dodging removes conditions.” (Ingame description)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind “Evade incoming attacks.” (Ingame description) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage_Cloak_(effect) So the following statements are incorrect: Mirage cloak is not and evade or dodge. It is a distortion like effect. The in game descrition says it replaces dodge. You can describe other traits all you want until your fingers hurt, but we are talking about how mirage cloak is described. All 3 statements are correct. From the game and wiki, Mirage Cloak is an effect that replaces dodging for mesmers with the Mirage elite specialization. Instead of rolling to dodge, activating dodging provides Mirage Cloak effect to the user In game it says, gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling, also notice that you can see it on the effects bar when it is cast THE WORDS DO NOT MATCH YOUR CLAIM Edited October 19, 2022 by Crab Fear.8623 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raknar.4735 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Crab Fear.8623 said: Mirage cloak is not and evade or dodge. It is a distortion like effect. The in game descrition says it replaces dodge. You can describe other traits all you want until your fingers hurt, but we are talking about how mirage cloak is described. All 3 statements are correct. From the game and wiki, Mirage Cloak is an effect that replaces dodging for mesmers with the Mirage elite specialization. Instead of rolling to dodge, activating dodging provides Mirage Cloak effect to the user In game it says, gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling, also notice that you can see it on the effects bar when it is cast Mirage cloak is an effect that evades. It is an evasion. It's closer to Blur, if anything. The in-game description says it replaces dodge rolling. We're not only talking about mirage cloak, you've just been moving away from your initial statement about Mesmers not dodging or evading, as you've noticed your statements were wrong. The traits clearly state that the mesmer is dodging &/or evading. Your 3 statements are wrong, proven by the aforementioned details about traits clearly describing Mesmer actions. And again, the wiki is player written. Only the Vindicator's ingame description includes "Instead of dodging..". The Mesmer one clearly states "gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling", as you and me have correctly cited multiple times. The act of dodging is still being performed by the Mesmer, as Elusive Mind wouldn't work if it wasn't. Edited October 19, 2022 by Raknar.4735 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.8623 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said: Mirage cloak is an effect that evades. It is an evasion. The in-game description says it replaces dodge rolling. We're not only talking about mirage cloak, you've just been moving away from your initial statement about Mesmers not dodging or evading, as you've noticed your statements were wrong. The traits clearly state that the mesmer is dodging &/or evading. Your 3 statements are wrong, proven by the aforementioned details about traits clearly describing Mesmer actions. And again, the wiki is player written. Only the Vindicator's ingame description includes "Instead of dodging..". The Mesmer one clearly states "gain mirage cloak instead of dodge rolling", as you and me have correctly cited multiple times. The act of dodging is still being performed by the Mesmer, as Elusive Mind wouldn't work if it wasn't. No, I have quoted that it is indeed not a dodge, or an evasion. You have not quoted anything that specifically describes cloak from the game, nor the wiki. AND No, the in game description for Mirage Cloak is described "Gain Mirage Cloak instead of dodging"...this is in game, in the minor adept....check it yourself...in game I haven't changed course, it is not, and never had been a dodge or an evade. It is essentially functions like distortion, blur, invuln, but can inherit traits that noramlly apply to dodge. Elusive mind will still work with Mirage Cloak, as it REPLACES dodge. (this is called logic) IT IS NOT A DODGE, it REPLACES DODGE. I actually conceding your point about the vindicator dodge, because I can actually read and acknowledge when I am wrong. It feels good to argue with people who can do the same, and since I have refuted you soundly, I am done replying. Edited October 19, 2022 by Crab Fear.8623 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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