No aim, no brain, I'm a Bull's Charge main [Merged]

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

You seem to be having a lot of problems with Bull's charge lately...😅

 

In any event, it IS a leap finisher, and you were standing on a platform on the same level only a short distance away, so...I'm not sure why this would be "inappropriate"...I would expect any similar leap attacks to hit in this situation 🤷‍♂️

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the worst is when you teleport behind them and the leap does a 180 and hits you mid animation. so dumb.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Warrior so STRONK! We walk on air!

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Unranked...

[Hotride.2187]

You can jump and bulls charge, if you get the timing right it will do what happened in the video. As you dont immediatelly drop like a rock on any terrain gap.

I dont know if its what the spb did, even in slow motion its hard to tell. It does look like there is a jump though (at the start of bulls charge) even if the animation of the bulls charge looked weird.

If its what the player did, impressive to get it so fluidly midfight.

Same for gs3. Normally you use this to get over gaps you cant cross in another way.

I can record how it looks from the wars POV if you want, since there the animation is obvious.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Hotride.2187]

On 11/19/2022 at 11:19 PM, bethekey.8314 said:

The delusion is palpable. Not "poorly coded game", "lag", or "bad warrior for using important cooldown into a wall", but "skill issue for getting hit through and beyond wall". Perhaps you've run headfirst into one too many walls yourself?

Play war and you will see first hand what poorly coded really means. Half your skills dont connect half the time.

As for charging into a wall, I usually gs5 for that if I see someone hugging a pillar. A lot of players think they are immune to war just because they hid behind something big enough to cover the arcing slice range. You are safe from most of what war has, but not everything.

[Sahne.6950]

Warrior: *performs a jumpcancel with Bullscharge to cross the gap*

"WhErE mY caRriEd WaRriOrS aT"? 

 

Some peopel dont realize how much finesse some warrior players had to develop, to stay competetive during all those years where Warrior was trash. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[miriforst.1290]

Haven't you got a thread about this skill on the frontpage already?

 

Let's not go full NHBT here.

[freakcoco.4287]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Warrior: *performs a jumpcancel with Bullscharge to cross the gap*

"WhErE mY caRriEd WaRriOrS aT"? 

 

Some peopel dont realize how much finesse some warrior players had to develop, to stay competetive during all those years where Warrior was trash. 

24 CD CC skill on utility slot, even if it blink to target won't overperforming, but if the target is mecha, it is huge problem since mecha have 50 CD breakstun, no matter how good you are you gonna be kill, but yeah ! no one will complaint about mecha underperforming.

 

[Eugchriss.2046]

Anet (sneakly?) changed their "target chasing" algorithm. That kind of move used to be impossible but it is now. Same for rev sw#3  and thief tp. They can now chase you where they weren t abled to before.

[Kodama.6453]

4 hours ago, miriforst.1290 said:

Haven't you got a thread about this skill on the frontpage already?

 

Let's not go full NHBT here.

Ya know what, we should have a NHBT for every class. Might be fun to see the chaos created from that.

[bethekey.8314]

12 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

You seem to be having a lot of problems with Bull's charge lately...😅

 

In any event, it IS a leap finisher, and you were standing on a platform on the same level only a short distance away, so...I'm not sure why this would be "inappropriate"...I would expect any similar leap attacks to hit in this situation 🤷‍♂️

Yeah, it's funny how broken the ability is when you pay attention to it.

It isn't that short of a distance. You can only just make it jumping with swiftness and out of combat. The warrior crossed at the longest point.

Also, not all leap finishers are the same and having the designation doesn't mean much. I could argue Bull's Charge is the "un-leapiest" of leap finishers, from animation. Jump Shot undoubtedly covers this distance, while Mechanist's mace 2 drops like a sack of potatoes. It's not a great justification.

11 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Warrior so STRONK! We walk on air!

Nike Air Warriors Max, in stores near you!

10 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

You can jump and bulls charge, if you get the timing right it will do what happened in the video. As you dont immediatelly drop like a rock on any terrain gap.

I dont know if its what the spb did, even in slow motion its hard to tell. It does look like there is a jump though (at the start of bulls charge) even if the animation of the bulls charge looked weird.

If its what the player did, impressive to get it so fluidly midfight.

Same for gs3. Normally you use this to get over gaps you cant cross in another way.

I can record how it looks from the wars POV if you want, since there the animation is obvious.

I appreciate you slowing down the video to try and analyze what's going on here. While it's  difficult to see, the warrior started Bull's Charge behind the brazier and afterward was entirely surprised by what happened as well. If you want to put in the effort to record  the Warrior's PoV, I'd watch.

10 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Play war and you will see first hand what poorly coded really means. Half your skills dont connect half the time.

I've played this game for 10 years and have seen it all. I understand what it means to have poorly working abilities:

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Warrior: *performs a jumpcancel with Bullscharge to cross the gap*

"WhErE mY caRriEd WaRriOrS aT"? 

 

Some peopel dont realize how much finesse some warrior players had to develop, to stay competetive during all those years where Warrior was trash. 

Unrustle your jimmies. The tone of these threads should be light, much like Warriors as they glide across the sky in Bull's Charge. Finding fault with one skill does not mean Warriors do not need finesse.

7 hours ago, miriforst.1290 said:

Haven't you got a thread about this skill on the frontpage already?

 

Let's not go full NHBT here.

It took me a little to realize what NHBT  means lol. I just wanted to use a different rhyming title for this clip 😞

6 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Anet (sneakly?) changed their "target chasing" algorithm. That kind of move used to be impossible but it is now. Same for rev sw#3  and thief tp. They can now chase you where they weren t abled to before.

It does feel like the behavior of certain skills has been warped over time. If so, I consider this a downgrade. It limits smart counterplay with terrain/obstacles.

Edited November 23, 2022 by bethekey.8314

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

the worst is when you teleport behind them and the leap does a 180 and hits you mid animation. so dumb.

It's a channeled skill, all of them will do that if you retarget.

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

If you want to put in the effort to record  the Warrior's PoV, I'd watch.

Sure, I'll be AFKing in wvw on Sunday, I'll record a 1-2 places. Dunno if I'll be able to record kb inputs too, though they are IMO anyway too fast to follow.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It's a channeled skill, all of them will do that if you retarget.

i know, its dumb. also i didn't say retarget. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

19 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i know, its dumb. also i didn't say retarget. 

Yeah, but they did that in order to do what you said.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Why does this thread have another boss phase

 

Excuse me?

 

[bethekey.8314]

10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Why does this thread have another boss phase

 

Excuse me?

Phase 2 betches. Your golems won't save you now.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Phase 2 betches. Your golems won't save you now.

 

Remove pillar from map, fixed.

On topic:

Most leaps in the game with significantly high velocity have functionality that works more or less like this. The problem isn't bull's charge having some kind of supernatural functionality, it's that you expect warrior to be significantly easier to deal with than most other specs. While normally your assumption would go unchallenged, you continue to be surprised in fringe cases where you should be cautious, but aren't.

You're being an anime villain and letting people get free hits.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

17 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Unrustle your jimmies. The tone of these threads should be light, much like Warriors as they glide across the sky in Bull's Charge. Finding fault with one skill does not mean Warriors do not need finesse.

im sorry poor fellow.  no hate ❤️

apparently he didnt even jumpcancel....    soo... yeah... crriiinge sahne.. criiinge 😬

 

[bethekey.8314]

11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Remove pillar from map, fixed.

On topic:

Most leaps in the game with significantly high velocity have functionality that works more or less like this. T

I notice you're jumping from the closest part to the pillar. I don't doubt that many, if not all, ground targeted leap abilities can cover the longer distance still. However:

On 11/23/2022 at 9:17 AM, bethekey.8314 said:

Also, not all leap finishers are the same and having the designation doesn't mean much. I could argue Bull's Charge is the "un-leapiest" of leap finishers, from animation. Jump Shot undoubtedly covers this distance, while Mechanist's mace 2 drops like a sack of potatoes. It's not a great justification.

 

11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The problem isn't bull's charge having some kind of supernatural functionality, it's that you expect warrior to be significantly easier to deal with than most other specs. While normally your assumption would go unchallenged, you continue to be surprised in fringe cases where you should be cautious, but aren't.

You're being an anime villain and letting people get free hits.

At a certain point, the "woe is me" warrior brigade has to be like "yeah, that's a little stupid". The dude speed drifted around a corner, sailed across the air, and landed precisely on a small pillar to stun me without any special input sequence or player skill. Just pressing Bull's Charge.

Not even blinks allow this, with LoS and no ports restricting their functionality.

I didn't even try to find these clips. I'm not on some crusade to bait Bull's Charge oddities. These aren't uncommon exceptions; it happens all the time.

 

I feel like this skill behavior isn't good or healthy for the game. Maybe devs agree. If not, then please code Toolkit's Magnet pull as a reverse Bull's Charge.

[Tycura.1982]

Continue to stay mad bullschargelets

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

At a certain point, the "woe is me" warrior brigade has to be like "yeah, that's a little stupid".

Yes, its a little stupid, but hardly game breaking, unavoidable or unadaptable. Just like in your rush thread,  you chose not to dodge when you were fully aware of the warrior and  its currently channeled skill, when you had full agency to do so. 

Theres a myriad of things that are janky across the board, which is why this thread bothered me enough for me to comment on it in the first place. 

I'm too tired to entertain this further, hope you understand. War still isn't good enough for me to go out of my way defending bull's charge because you keep finding creative ways to get hit by it. Even with it occasionally functioning in silly ways, warrior still needs a lot of work in areas that matter for it to even begin to interact with some commonly run classes, and if any dev time is spent rewiring warrior skills that deficiency should be the priority.  

If bulls charge is enough of a problem to get its functionality changed,  then  axe throw tracking, rush tracking and the other pathfinding skills that cause war to struggle need fixing too, before we even get to that. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[bethekey.8314]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Yes, its a little stupid, but hardly game breaking, unavoidable or unadaptable. Just like in your rush thread,  you chose not to dodge when you were fully aware of the warrior and  its currently channeled skill, when you had full agency to do so. 

The warrior themself, in this instance, was surprised that the skill hit. It's not always predictable. Dodging "in case" Bull's Charge decides to hit through or cross over obstacles isn't always an option, or is simply a waste. Using terrain to your advantage (e.g. save dodges) is one of the major things that separate good from bad players in this game.

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Theres a myriad of things that are janky across the board, which is why this thread bothered me enough for me to comment on it in the first place. 

True. However, not all janky things are as fight-deciding as Bull's Charge. Warrior will 100-0 you in that stun. Like Elementalist for projectiles, Warrior is a major limit on build craft because it almost requires 2 stunbreaks to fight.

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm too tired to entertain this further, hope you understand. War still isn't good enough for me to go out of my way defending bull's charge because you keep finding creative ways to get hit by it. Even with it occasionally functioning in silly ways, warrior still needs a lot of work in areas that matter for it to even begin to interact with some commonly run classes, and if any dev time is spent rewiring warrior skills that deficiency should be the priority.  

If bulls charge is enough of a problem to get its functionality changed,  then  axe throw tracking, rush tracking and the other pathfinding skills that cause war to struggle need fixing too, before we even get to that. 

I understand, and I really don't mean to be annoying here. I'd prefer to keep it light and I appreciate hearing your thoughts. One of the few remaining reasonable sources on here.

[Shagie.7612]

engineer deserves this because protholo was dumb

take that nerds, your major sucks