[BALANCING] What specs need tuning and why?

[Exedore.6320]

What is your general feeling concerning the current meta? Do you like it?

Don't like it. Damage is too high, mobility is too high, too many evades or ways to completely cancel damage.

What do you think is a contender for a nerf.  And why?

All elite specs and some over-buffs to core. Need to reduce the overall power creep. Less might per application, less boon duration, less conditions per application, longer cooldowns on movement skills, etc. Quickness should only be from specific skills which are difficult to pull off or have long cooldowns. Possibly lower overall stats from amulets + runes.

What spec do you feel like could use a buff. And what would you like to see buffed?

Modify the amulet system to give more stat freedom. The amulet stat combos were never the problem; power creep always has been.

[Khalisto.5780]

Fb, scourge, core ele, core engi are the ones that first come to my mind as obvious

 

Aside from guardian every core is in need of some buff, ones more than others

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

Honestly not interested in more tweaks to balance. What I'd much rather see is major buffs/reworks to the stuff that each class has which has been garbage for so long that people have forgotten they even exist. Every class has weapons/utilities/traitlines that haven't seen play in years (or even, at this point, decades).

Tweaking Meta-Build-A to be +/- 2% more effective than Meta-Build-B isn't gonna interest me in playing again. Making Build-C, which hasn't been playable since 2013, playable again, that would actually make me care enough to log in for more than 20 minutes.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Zekent.3652]

18 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Warrior.

The resistance spam is too much. Replace resistance on dodge with 2 condition cleanse on dodge and make more warrior skills cleave instead of single target.

About this, warrior is a class that struggles against blinds and weakness a lot because of its design, and cleanses are not the solution, warrior is a class that have some good cleanses, Mending, Cleansing Ire, Shake it Off, Brawler's Recovery, and was still struggling despite that, putting more cleanses will not be a good idea, the point of that resistance is giving warrior a chance against blind and weakness spam, nothing else.

[Dr Meta.3158]

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

About this, warrior is a class that struggles against blinds and weakness a lot because of its design, and cleanses are not the solution, warrior is a class that have some good cleanses, Mending, Cleansing Ire, Shake it Off, Brawler's Recovery, and was still struggling despite that, putting more cleanses will not be a good idea, the point of that resistance is giving warrior a chance against blind and weakness spam, nothing else.

I covered that in my post already. What I didn't cover was the resistance spam preventing classes from having even a chance of winning against it, especially spellbreaker. One of the main reasons why resistance access was to greatly limited to both them and revenants initially. Some lessons have to be repeated.

[captrowdy.9561]

Just show the underused classes some love and buffs and we good 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:05 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

 

Warrior.

The resistance spam is too much. Replace resistance on dodge with 2 condition cleanse on dodge and make more warrior skills cleave instead of single target.

 

Hard no.

 

2 seconds of resistance on dodge is not resistance spam, not when a large swath of classes (mainly necro and thief) can vomit weakness/blind at far more frequent rates (in many cases with no telegraph because corruptions turn might into weakness and entering shroud/steal/lightning rod/etc can output weakness) and make any interaction with war a 50/100% chance they take no or trivial amounts of damage, while continuing to output their own.

 

That's a non starter. We fought too hard for that. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 11/26/2022 at 9:12 PM, Ragnar.4257 said:

Honestly not interested in more tweaks to balance. What I'd much rather see is major buffs/reworks to the stuff that each class has which has been garbage for so long that people have forgotten they even exist. Every class has weapons/utilities/traitlines that haven't seen play in years (or even, at this point, decades).

Tweaking Meta-Build-A to be +/- 2% more effective than Meta-Build-B isn't gonna interest me in playing again. Making Build-C, which hasn't been playable since 2013, playable again, that would actually make me care enough to log in for more than 20 minutes.

This is the only real answer to this thread.

We don't need +/- 2% tweaks at this point, we need decrepit and abandoned traits and weapons reworked. Things like Guardian Hammer, or the Warrior Arms trait line.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 11/27/2022 at 9:41 AM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I covered that in my post already. What I didn't cover was the resistance spam preventing classes from having even a chance of winning against it, especially spellbreaker. One of the main reasons why resistance access was to greatly limited to both them and revenants initially. Some lessons have to be repeated.

The resistance can be reduced when the number of blinds and weakness applications are reduced by the same amount.

[youle.5824]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:35 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Erm, I did list it? It's right in the quote of yours there, I listed what blast gyro and slick shoes exactly do, including both their toolbelt skills.

Also, please look at both their toolbelt skills of slick shoes and blast gyro. They both do exactly the same thing, just with blast gyro being better with the next patch. Both are going to give 3 seconds superspeed and break stuns on 25 seconds cooldown. The only difference between them is that bypass coating does it in AoE (both, the superspeed and stunbreak).

Slick shoes isn't at all the same as blast gyro, slick shoes being way way more kitten to good players because it is not dodgeable and instant cc after casting it, so like tycura said if the skill is cast on top of you it's guaranteed cc that can cc you twice and basically is one shot by a good player If you don't have a stunbreak or invuln. Blast gyro never ever was a prob and prob never will be because of the huge delay till cc with big red animation

[Kako.1930]

The current meta is good, but I'm definitely looking forward to testing the ele scepter changes. It probably won't ever be quite good enough to be in the meta, but FA was so fun to play before they progressively nerfed it into the ground through indirect changes. As long as I can play ele without constantly being told "Please switch to literally any other profession" in every match (when I'm the only ele on the team) then I'm good. 😄

[Bazsi.2734]

Which specs need tuning: All of them.

And why: Yes.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, youle.5824 said:

Slick shoes isn't at all the same as blast gyro, slick shoes being way way more kitten to good players because it is not dodgeable and instant cc after casting it, so like tycura said if the skill is cast on top of you it's guaranteed cc that can cc you twice and basically is one shot by a good player If you don't have a stunbreak or invuln. Blast gyro never ever was a prob and prob never will be because of the huge delay till cc with big red animation

Did you actually read the discussion? His suggestion was to make slick shoes just knock down enemies in an pbAoE around the engineer after a delay once.

Which is basically the exact same way blast gyro functions. I am arguing that slick shoes shouldn't become the same as blast gyro, not that it actually is the same. their suggestion has been to make slick shoes a worse blast gyro clone, since he was proposing that it's CC works the same way like blast gyro, but having a onger cooldown, having no fire combo field, having no AoE might and without the blast finisher.

And that their toolbelts are the same thing with the one from blast gyro being simply better. After the patch tomorrow, both will give 3 seconds superspeed and break stun on 25 seconds cooldown. The only difference between them will be that bypass coating will apply the superspeed and stunbreak in an AoE, while superspeed (slick shoes toolbelt) just applies to yourself.

Please read what the conversation is about.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 11/22/2022 at 2:41 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

A Mechanist that is afk will poop out 5 diffrent boons from some random trait interactions

I bet most of those is just from alchemy, a core trait line.

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:05 PM, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Engineer

Remove shocking aura from AED when traited and replace with an aoe daze when triggered.

Greatly cutback on superspeed access to holosmiths.

Remove Moa from F5. Skills that take away complete player agency is horrible game design.

Make the turret trait that gives projectile reflect pulse 1 second of protection to allies every 2 seconds when a turret is placed for each different turret.

Not sure how to make mechanist viable at the top end without destroying silver pvp.

My gosh these are garbage ideas.

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 hours ago, youle.5824 said:

lick shoes isn't at all the same as blast gyro, slick shoes being way way more kitten to good players because it is not dodgeable and instant cc after casting it, so like tycura said if the skill is cast on top of you it's guaranteed cc that can cc you twice and basically is one shot by a good player If you don't have a stunbreak or invuln. Blast gyro never ever was a prob and prob never will be because of the huge delay till cc with big red animation

Last I checked it cannot cc you twice because anet nerfed it. Wiki: "This skill is now limited to knocking each enemy down once."

[Eddie.9143]

renegade is absolute dogsh*t needs a huge buff

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:08 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

Little advice, pay attention to what subforum you are in. This thread here is in the PvP subforum, so I guess you can figure out which of these environments is meant.

Like how the Devs say this is a PVE balance and start nerfing WvW traits..gotcha!   🤣