What would you think about to restore Deadeye to its vanilla version?

[ozgu.6524]

What would you think about to restore Deadeye to its vanilla version which is before the rework that came with 2018-05-08 update?

I think Deadeye is simply ruined with that rework, and now Anet staff will rework on its skills once more in a weird way by allowing Deadeye to walk while kneeling and reducing its skills' range.

Instead of messing with those stuff over and over again I wish them to bring back the vanilla Deadeye.

So, what do you think?

 

[kash.9213]

I loved that first version and I really miss Cursed Bullet and the timed combinations you could create with it, but more people seemed to have wanted something else, Silent Scope was a big hit and I think a lot of people like the second version of Malice. I think the feel of Rifle positioning and peeling is still mostly there, I just want to know more about what Anet plans with team movement and what will be the baseline parameters, including the range or radius they might want to pull more people into. 

[Doggie.3184]

Cursed Bullet was annoying cuz it used a unique projectile mechanic that the game wasn't ready for and failed most of the time from what I remember and made stealth play really clunky. Instead of fixing it, or I guess maybe they tried to fix it and couldn't, they deleted it instead for a simplier concept.

But I also remember hating Deadeye less in its original form (other than CB) and it just needed some AoE on Rifle for Quality of Life. Silent Scope was a lot more useful and Kneel seemed fine~ I don't remember anyone asking for RP-Walk back then, people (including myself) just wanted to be able to cancel it with jump and/or movement but that request was ignored. Thief + QoL just isn't a thing very often.

Also not really sure why they even bother making it need ini at all when you're penalizing yourself with immobility. It used ammo only originally didn't it?

Edited November 26, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

This what was i was talking about with anet babdaiding everything. We have the tech to fix what we couldnt back then, so bring what could have been possible back!

[Nephalem.8921]

In pve:

The first iteration was so bad that it was unusable. Was probably the worst designed spec. Made for roleplayers.

The malice rework made it work with other weapons and enabled m7 which is the best thing about DE. The only thing vanilla DE could do was killing new players in wvw.

[cyberzombie.7348]

I'd say that version was the most balanced. While it had a major shave in dps from beta, it got better utilities and synergy with other weapon sets. Plus the 10sec icd on silent scope made it to where you couldn't go back-to-back stealth just by dodging. Idk why they decided to remove that. 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Some parts yes, some no.

I miss the old shadow arts traits (I know it isnt DE specific however it complimented tf out of DE the most). I miss that one of the cantrips could be used from stealth (now it reveals you on use).

What I like now is the changes to the Rifle...specifically moving while kneelked (although animation has  you standing which is weird).

[Nezekan.2671]

I think deadeye is a good place now, going Rifle with dagger/dagger feels good, and now you have monopoly on being a proper stealthy thief after shadow arts rework as well. Could always use more improvements, but it's a good start. It's also far less monotonous when you have an actually working ranged and melee weapon sets. I always struggled with a second weapon set for deadeye, but now it's good. Rifle with D/D is match made in heaven, each filling the gaps of the other.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[DeceiverX.8361]

Everything about old DE was less healthy than the current iteration in terms of the competitive modes, so nah I'm good.

Unless y'all  are deluded into thinking 30k+ backstabs on non-interaction stealth builds and 20k unblockable DJ's was fun and engaging to play against...

 

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

What was the original deadeye? I was on break for a number of years so I never saw the original version.

[ASP.8093]

5 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

What was the original deadeye? I was on break for a number of years so I never saw the original version.

I mostly skipped that era as well, but afaik basically your Malice equivalent would charge passively instead of from attacks. Like you could mark a target and then just wait. It didn't have the same insane initiative-refresh capability as modern Deadeye, though.

Also your sneak attack was "Cursed Bullet," a homing boon-ripping shot, while Death's Judgement was one of the #num skills.

… Given the class' dire rep back in the day, I'd have to say I prefer the current iteration.

Edited December 7, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Jumpel.3972]

8 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

What was the original deadeye? I was on break for a number of years so I never saw the original version.

Malice was build up overtime on a timer (and faster if you attack someone) giving  globale raw damage buff and boost DJ damage until the mark go off (fun fact, you get bonus damage even on non-marked target).

It was gimmicky because you just mark someone and then afk stealth until malice is full charge to then burst.

On rifle, kneel was a 2 ammo 10sec base cd (and it stealth), it was nearly unplayable in PVE and in PVP Daredevil D/P was farming it just by spamming headshot.

[FrancisN.9276]

1 hour ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

Malice was build up overtime on a timer (and faster if you attack someone) giving  globale raw damage buff and boost DJ damage until the mark go off (fun fact, you get bonus damage even on non-marked target).

It was gimmicky because you just mark someone and then afk stealth until malice is full charge to then burst.

On rifle, kneel was a 2 ammo 10sec base cd (and it stealth), it was nearly unplayable in PVE and in PVP Daredevil D/P was farming it just by spamming headshot.

This sounds like a true "sniper" playstyle, but I imagine its toxicity must have driven other players into smashing their keyboard when suddenly oneshot-ed by a stealthed DE out of nowhere. In that case, I prefer the current DE version, despite it leaning more toward "rapid shots" than "one shot one kill".

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 12/7/2022 at 6:49 AM, FrancisN.9276 said:

This sounds like a true "sniper" playstyle, but I imagine its toxicity must have driven other players into smashing their keyboard when suddenly oneshot-ed by a stealthed DE out of nowhere. In that case, I prefer the current DE version, despite it leaning more toward "rapid shots" than "one shot one kill".

It was also unblockable and dealt 50% more baseline skill coefficient damage.

So you literally had to always play with one dodge roll in the chamber against a skill which may or may not be coming, against a 1500 ranged threat with huge bonus damage scaling on already-hard-hitting skills like TRB and Cursed Bullet, which for funsies, corrupted boons, too.

Also note % damage modifiers in GW2 are multiplicative, so it wasn't uncommon for a lot of DE skills to just casually hit for 10-15k.

Class was absolutely stupid to play against because unless you had answers in your build you literally couldn't outplay it in WvW if the DE possessed half a brain; which with the old SA, had the only requirement of just understanding how to stack stealth, since you'd get infinite retries on your burst combo without actually having to engage for the bonus damage.

And Malicious Backstab got a +140% damage modifier which stacked with the old Assassin's Signet + when Lead Attacks could have its 15% modifier built OOC, and a significantly stronger set of damage modifiers on Crit Strikes in general.  Wasn't uncommon to see literally > 30k backstabs on a camp-stealth/non-interaction D/P build.

[Jumpel.3972]

1 hour ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

It was also unblockable and dealt 50% more baseline skill coefficient damage.

And Malicious Backstab

He speak about the really first DE version not the rework

[DeceiverX.8361]

2 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

He speak about the really first DE version not the rework

Honestly forgot this was part of their mini-rework.  Though the global malice damage damage buff prior didn't really make it much different.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

For anyone who wasn't around for PoF release and so doesn't know what it was like to duo in PvP/WvW with a Deadeye back then; this video sums it up pretty well....

Edit: on a serious note, when the malicious backstab build was a thing I remember having one night roaming on EB against a group of 5+ blue players that were trying to get into SM, repeatedly by forcing them to choose between ressing the guy I just backstabbed for 30k or defending the catapult. I wiped them myself more than once doing this. I started at around 11pm, at 4am I get a whisper asking me to stop because that's how long it took for them to target me long enough to block me for the whisper.

I am in no way a top tier player so this isn't a flex, I'm just using that example to show how oppressive that build actually was if you knew how to use it. Original Deadeye was basically an unplayable meme build that felt like the above video, while reworked Deadeye with old SA was basically unplayable against before the damage nerf patch. There's zero point in revisiting either period, imo. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Jugglemonkey.8741