Yearly/Semi-Yearly Expansions Sounds a lot like Icebrood Saga we pay for.

[Gibson.4036]

18 hours ago, phantom.1675 said:

Wait and see, if you dont like what they release, dont buy it. If that doesn't keep you around, great.
 

A more frequent, consistent release schedule will actually make this more possible.

In the past, if you wanted to say, wait and see what you'd actually be getting from buying Path of Fire, you would have to have waited from Late 2017 all the way through April 2021 and the conclusion of Icebrood Saga.

In the new model, if the cadence is mini-expac/year or year-and-a-half, and three quarterly updates, you'll know what exactly you're getting 12 to 18 months after launch and you can decide whether it's worth buying.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[KawsMeCal.5923]

2 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

So you think expansion and expansion content mean the same thing? Because they don't.

"We will be doing free content, gem store, and expansion content." 

If you don't think that means the free content we got, the gem store stuff we got, and the expansions we got, then you have some issues.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

"We will be doing free content, gem store, and expansion content." 

If you don't think that means the free content we got, the gem store stuff we got, and the expansions we got, then you have some issues.

Considering that afair they called IBS expansion level content, I think you're wrong here and "large-scale expansion content" doesn't exactly mean "regular style expansion".

[KawsMeCal.5923]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Considering that afair they called IBS expansion level content, I think you're wrong here and "large-scale expansion content" doesn't exactly mean "regular style expansion".

Saying we will get free content on one side and then in a separate part of the sentence expansion content, right, means they had two separate thoughts there. IBS can be expansion level content and be in the free content pile... Right... So then we have stuff that has to not go into the free content pile but do go into the expansion content pile... Which would be what? Anyone? That's right... Expansions. 

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

Saying we will get free content on one side and then in a separate part of the sentence expansion content, right, means they had two separate thoughts there. IBS can be expansion level content and be in the free content pile... Right... So then we have stuff that has to not go into the free content pile but do go into the expansion content pile... Which would be what? Anyone? That's right... Expansions. 

"Free bonus content" can very easly said about periodical/time-limited content (lw s1?), events, festivals and so on. Not only that, but the whole quote is within the context of (or rather: right in the middle of) :

"No need to buy them,...."  (...)  "We do appreciate that you’d like to buy lots of new content, but we’d prefer to give a lot of it to you for free, cause that’s what we think a responsible MMO company does!"

Edited February 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Razor.6392]

Just continue not paying. EoD was awful, I don't trust anything will be worth paying for anymore.

[KawsMeCal.5923]

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"Free bonus content" can very easly said about periodical/time-limited content (lw s1?), events, festivals and so on. Not only that, but the whole quote is within the context of (or rather: right in the middle of) :

"No need to buy them,...."  (...)  "We do appreciate that you’d like to buy lots of new content, but we’d prefer to give a lot of it to you for free, cause that’s what we think a responsible MMO company does!"

Yes A LOT of it was free... Not ALL of it was free... Just because free content also means all of those things doesn't mean it also has to include expansions as well. Did you think their business plan was lets give them every single thing for free or did you think for more than 10 seconds and think maybe that wouldn't be the best plan? There's no shot anyone thought this meant something like HoT, PoF, and EoD would all be free as well and not having them be free conflicted with what was said. You read free and expected the world apparently. 

Seriously giving off spoiled brat vibes with this take.

[voltaicbore.8012]

I guess I'm just not a fan of the incrementalist approach being described by Anet's post.

The primary reason for my discomfort is a lack of faith that these shorter-term "smaller than usual" expansions will actually be any different in quality than what we currently have.

So we'll have the same (increasingly bland) map design, the same level of narrative quality... just with the additional minus that we have maybe a quarter of an expansion instead of a full one.

Compared to waiting 2-3 years for an expansion we get all at once, I don't think getting the same volume of content piecemeal over that same 2-3 years will make any of us feel better about the content or the amount we paid for it. This is even generously assuming that quality and volume of the content will be comparable. If ESO is any indication, a piecemeal release system is not generally not perceived by the consumer as worth the money.

My position will change entirely if some real change has occurred at the studio, and they demonstrate a very surprising (and to date, unprecedented) increase in quality despite the changed release model. That would be a pleasant surprise on par with mounts (I thought I would absolutely hate them, and Anet well and truly proved me wrong on that one).

Edited February 15, 2023 by voltaicbore.8012

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

Yes A LOT of it was free... Not ALL of it was free... Just because free content also means all of those things doesn't mean it also has to include expansions as well. Did you think their business plan was lets give them every single thing for free or did you think for more than 10 seconds and think maybe that wouldn't be the best plan? There's no shot anyone thought this meant something like HoT, PoF, and EoD would all be free as well and not having them be free conflicted with what was said. You read free and expected the world apparently. 

Seriously giving off spoiled brat vibes with this take.

Maybe, but luckily that's not "my take" at all, so maybe stop making up weird claims I never made in order to throw insults my way left and right, since you seem to be repeatedly doing it to different people in this thread. 🙄

Edited February 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[KawsMeCal.5923]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Maybe, but luckily that's not "my take" at all, so maybe stop making up weird claims I never made in order to throw insults my way 🙄

Right it's not your take just the one you keep constantly posting, defending, and replying about? That makes sense.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

Right it's not your take just the one you keep constantly posting, defending, and replying about? That makes sense.

The one I "keep constantly posting and defending"? All I did was comment about the quote someone gave here, in relation to what we know about past releases and what was being called "expansion tier content" (which at that point were 2 posts, after which you started making these claims up just to call me spoiled, so that's an interesting take on "keep constantly posting"). At no point it somehow means I want/expect everything for free. If you can't understand that quote can easly be interpreted in more than one way you're interpreting it in then not sure what's the point of these responses and namecallling. It won't change what I wrote and it also still won't mean I somehow want everything for free.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[KawsMeCal.5923]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Where do I "keep constantly posting and defending"? All I do is comment about the quote someone gave here in relation to what we know about past releases and what was being called "expansion tier content". At no point it somehow means I want/expect everything for free. If you can't understand that quote can easly be interpreted in more than one way you're interpreting it in then not sure what's the point of these responses and namecallling. It won't change what I wrote and it also still won't mean I somehow want everything for free.

You said I was wrong for how I said it can be interpreted wrong and are now saying it can be interpreted in multiple ways. I am saying that by charging for expansions they did not break what was said here and you said that's wrong because x, y, and z. You are coming out on the side of them saying everything should be free based on that quote so that does mean you expected it to be free.

I clarified what was said because obviously people took it and ran with it thinking it meant something entirely different from what it says. I said it doesn't claim these things are free because if it did it would be worded like "free content such as black lion offerings and expansion content." which it doesn't and even if it did would still not be as some claimed meaning every expansion level content would be free.

If I said free muffins for everyone that bought a meal for the opening week of my restaurant that doesn't mean you should expect a free muffin for every meal you get there forever. That's the entire point I was making, so if you don't disagree, you shouldn't say it's wrong to say this, right?

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

You said I was wrong for how I said it can be interpreted wrong and are now saying it can be interpreted in multiple ways. I am saying that by charging for expansions they did not break what was said here and you said that's wrong because x, y, and z. You are coming out on the side of them saying everything should be free based on that quote so that does mean you expected it to be free.

I clarified what was said because obviously people took it and ran with it thinking it meant something entirely different from what it says. I said it doesn't claim these things are free because if it did it would be worded like "free content such as black lion offerings and expansion content." which it doesn't and even if it did would still not be as some claimed meaning every expansion level content would be free.

If I said free muffins for everyone that bought a meal for the opening week of my restaurant that doesn't mean you should expect a free muffin for every meal you get there forever. That's the entire point I was making, so if you don't disagree, you shouldn't say it's wrong to say this, right?

Not exactly, I said -literally- I think you're wrong here and "large-scale expansion content" doesn't exactly mean "regular style expansion" and I explained why. I understand you might not care, might have missed it or maybe it simply doesn't seem to make any difference to you, but if I were absolutely sure you're wrong, I wouldn't say "I think you're wrong" [+explanation], I would say you're definitely/objectively wrong. Nothing about what I wrote in the previous posts changed here, the namecalling over made up claims I never said somehow didn't convince me. I still don't think you're correct and I think I already explained why. Moreover, if you looked for my reaction to the news, you'd see I'm ok with having paid content, as opposed to what you apparently think. Not much more to say here.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

5 hours ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

"We will be doing free content, gem store, and expansion content." 

If you don't think that means the free content we got, the gem store stuff we got, and the expansions we got, then you have some issues.

We all have issues, whether we realize it or not. I know I do. 😉

But Sobx already explained it. Expansion content and actual expansions are not the same thing. ANet already provided us with exhibit A and it goes by the name of "Icebrood Saga".

Edited February 15, 2023 by TheNecrosanct.4028
Spelling

[KawsMeCal.5923]

21 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Not exactly, I said -literally- I think you're wrong here and "large-scale expansion content" doesn't exactly mean "regular style expansion" and I explained why. I understand you might not care, might have missed it or maybe it simply doesn't seem to make any difference to you, but if I were absolutely sure you're wrong, I wouldn't say "I think you're wrong" [+explanation], I would say you're definitely/objectively wrong. Nothing about what I wrote in the previous posts changed here, the namecalling over made up claims I never said somehow didn't convince me. I still don't think you're correct and I think I already explained why. Moreover, if you looked for my reaction to the news, you'd see I'm ok with having paid content, as opposed to what you apparently think. Not much more to say here.

You hooped into a conversation being had and stated I was the wrong one between us, which puts you in the same side as they are. If you don't agree with them you need to state how they are also wrong to be clear your intent. Saying I am wrong here in reply to that conversation as another party means you think my stance in relation to that thing you're correcting in that thread of dialogue is wrong, or that's how I interpret it. As someone stating how people can misinterpret people you sure don't seem open to the idea that you jumping into it without clarifying anything would lead to confusion on your stance and saying someone should look into your reaction to know is laughable. 

15 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

We all have issues, whether we realize it or not. I know I do. 😉

But Sobx already explained it. Expansion content and actual expansions are not the same thing. ANet already provided us with exhibit A and goes by the name of "Icebrood Saga".

And how does this fit the narrative of them saying "expansion content will be free and we shall never do an expansion at a cost" because that's literally the entire point being made that is being argued about. Expansion content and free content were specifically separated in that quote. Icebrood Saga also came out like 7 years after that quote and about 3 years after it we got HoT which was a paid expansion so what's your point? Expansion content for free =/= all expansion content should be free. 

If you believe that quote means expansion content will always be free, feel free to keep arguing it. I've made my point about how it never stated that, so have fun.

[Esquilax.3491]

They have their work cut out for them if they want to continue to use the mastery system as an incentive for "new ways to play an explore". Because they've clearly run out of ideas. What we got in EoD in terms of masteries was abysmal.

 

Skiffs are tied to the fishing minigame, and are vastly inferior to the skimmer in every other way, there's no reason to use one outside of fishing.

 

The jade bot is basically a replacement for Volatile Magic (a way to target and help stabilise the economy of specific materials) which doesn't drop in the new maps. It comes with a stamina buff that wasn't really necessary and don't get me started on the stupid little platforms that take from from point A to B, those are basically jumping mushrooms 2.0.

 

Protocols are awful too because they are a chore to maintain, only work in the overworld, and they blur the lines on build diversity. Why would I run a quickness build when exploring when I get it for free now, why would I slot sigil of strength, why bother with runes that provide fury and might? Etc

 

Siege turtle has like 3 uses in the game. It's the only mount I will never buy a skin for because you only use it for brief moments in specific maps.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

1 hour ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

And how does this fit the narrative of them saying "expansion content will be free and we shall never do an expansion at a cost" because that's literally the entire point being made that is being argued about. Expansion content and free content were specifically separated in that quote. Icebrood Saga also came out like 7 years after that quote and about 3 years after it we got HoT which was a paid expansion so what's your point? Expansion content for free =/= all expansion content should be free. 

If you believe that quote means expansion content will always be free, feel free to keep arguing it. I've made my point about how it never stated that, so have fun.

You seem to have missed what I was reponding to. Let me repeat it. It was about the content, not the price. You equated the phrase "expansion content" to be exactly the same as "expansion", and argued it. While the Icebrood Saga was advertised as containing expansion level content, history shows us it was not. So, expansion content and expansion do not equate to the same thing in ANet's dictionary. If it did, they would just use the one term everybody uses: expansion. I never commented on the pricing.

And before you say "That's not what people were talking about", you were. Regardless, it is entirely possible to introduce new aspects to a conversation. Happens every day. I just saw something that I think was erroneous and pointed it out. And it's not just me. The opinion that IBS was not expansion level content as advertised is a fairly common opinion on this forum.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 2/13/2023 at 9:38 PM, Asum.4960 said:

Additionally we know they are also investing into gamesmodes like WvW again. 

I'm not seeing this at all. WvW gets zero content and worse balance every time they update it. The mode is in an awful state playability wise.

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

Yes A LOT of it was free... Not ALL of it was free... Just because free content also means all of those things doesn't mean it also has to include expansions as well.

Snip

Yes and that was my whole point that quote dont talk about expansions at all.

It was not on the table back then so do you now understand you have reasoned yourself into a corner?

Edit

That quote was not to show that expansions should be free.

It was to show Anet did not even think about making any expansions in the first place.

Yes that vision changed but that was not the point of the quote.

Edit 2

That you then take 1 word out of context and try to spin it into --no you were wrong-- post dont make my wrong in the slightest bud.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Linken.6345

[idpersona.3810]

34 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

I'm not seeing this at all. WvW gets zero content and worse balance every time they update it. The mode is in an awful state playability wise.

But they are actually making some changes to it. That can't really be denied.

Whether you like them or not is obviously your own opinion. But WvW changes are in fact happening.

[Ausar.9542]

8 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

So you think expansion and expansion content mean the same thing? Because they don't.

Ice Blood Saga proves your point

[voltaicbore.8012]

13 minutes ago, Ausar.9542 said:

Ice Blood Saga proves your point

And I think this is exactly why a lot of us are less than excited about the announcement. IBS was explicitly marketed to us as "expansion like" (or was it "expansion level"?) content, and ultimately it just didn't live up to what a lot of us were looking for. I for sure wasn't expecting anything on the level of elite specs to drop during IBS, but basically the only significant change to overall gameplay was the portable waystation. The rest of it was pretty much exactly what a normal LW usually offers - a new piece of story for us to do between expansions, and an (almost) entire set of masteries that are used on one LW map and nowhere else.

I think it was even worse because LWS4 set a very high bar for what LW could be. If Anet came out and told us "so hey this level of content and quality is what our new 'expansion like' content is going to be," I'd be completely on board. But LWS4 ended with that season, and nothing we've seen (not even EoD, in my opinion) feels as well done as that was. Given this situation, I'm not optimistic that we can expect great things from this newly announced direction. 

I think I'll only buy into this new stuff if I really feel held back in terms of gameplay or account progress. Otherwise I'm going to hold out for some kind of discounted bundle.

  

4 hours ago, Esquilax.3491 said:

Siege turtle has like 3 uses in the game. It's the only mount I will never buy a skin for because you only use it for brief moments in specific maps.

It's a shame the turtle doesn't have more uses.

I did find an unexpected use for them: the toxic bloom events on some of the core maps. Regardless of whether it's the mortar, demolitionist, or Vigil Siegemaster version, you can just run up to the stalk and turtle stomp it 5-6 times, and it dies and you win. It's great for clearing that event fast at off hours for more progress on a bauble map.

Edited February 16, 2023 by voltaicbore.8012

[Doctor Hide.6345]

6 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

And I think this is exactly why a lot of us are less than excited about the announcement. IBS was explicitly marketed to us as "expansion like" (or was it "expansion level"?) content, and ultimately it just didn't live up to what a lot of us were looking for. I for sure wasn't expecting anything on the level of elite specs to drop during IBS, but basically the only significant change to overall gameplay was the portable waystation. The rest of it was pretty much exactly what a normal LW usually offers - a new piece of story for us to do between expansions, and an (almost) entire set of masteries that are used on one LW map and nowhere else.

I think it was even worse because LWS4 set a very high bar for what LW could be. If Anet came out and told us "so hey this level of content and quality is what our new 'expansion like' content is going to be," I'd be completely on board. But LWS4 ended with that season, and nothing we've seen (not even EoD, in my opinion) feels as well done as that was. Given this situation, I'm not optimistic that we can expect great things from this newly announced direction. 

I think I'll only buy into this new stuff if I really feel held back in terms of gameplay or account progress. Otherwise I'm going to hold out for some kind of discounted bundle.

That is why I am overall bitter to the changes here. I have a dreadful feeling we are now going to be paying for the same level of IBS every year when that level of quality content used to be free. That is why people more or less gave IBS a pass because it was free if you logged in on time. Now they want us to pay for it instead.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

And I think this is exactly why a lot of us are less than excited about the announcement. IBS was explicitly marketed to us as "expansion like" (or was it "expansion level"?) content, and ultimately it just didn't live up to what a lot of us were looking for. I for sure wasn't expecting anything on the level of elite specs to drop during IBS, but basically the only significant change to overall gameplay was the portable waystation. The rest of it was pretty much exactly what a normal LW usually offers - a new piece of story for us to do between expansions, and an (almost) entire set of masteries that are used on one LW map and nowhere else.

I think it was even worse because LWS4 set a very high bar for what LW could be. If Anet came out and told us "so hey this level of content and quality is what our new 'expansion like' content is going to be," I'd be completely on board. But LWS4 ended with that season, and nothing we've seen (not even EoD, in my opinion) feels as well done as that was. Given this situation, I'm not optimistic that we can expect great things from this newly announced direction. 

I think I'll only buy into this new stuff if I really feel held back in terms of gameplay or account progress. Otherwise I'm going to hold out for some kind of discounted bundle.

  

It's a shame the turtle doesn't have more uses.

I did find an unexpected use for them: the toxic bloom events on some of the core maps. Regardless of whether it's the mortar, demolitionist, or Vigil Siegemaster version, you can just run up to the stalk and turtle stomp it 5-6 times, and it dies and you win. It's great for clearing that event fast at off hours for more progress on a bauble map.

And now when you said this watch Anet patch this out.

Fixed an unintened behaviour bettwen toxic bloom events and the turtle.

[pallas.8150]

Its a business and they are in the business of making money.

I'm... oddly indifferent? You can either opt in or opt out, honestly I doubt the quality of the product will somehow improve with this move. If I like what the expansions add, I'll buy. If not, I'll pass.