Gen3 variants are way too expensive

[Cuks.8241]

5 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

 I think in this entire post nobody even was talking about the base cost of the legendaries. There are people like me who want anet to fix the prices to a level where it's not just the legendary itself that has an okay price but also the facets.

Well I quoted your post where you said gen3 price should be on par with others. I agree, I think gen3 base price should be around 2.2k gold. I think thats a good price for a new legendary. 

[Redsnabba.9172]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Well I quoted your post where you said gen3 price should be on par with others. I agree, I think gen3 base price should be around 2.2k gold. I think thats a good price for a new legendary. 

It's hard to get a real value for gen 2 as they are all account bound but the pure crafting costs are actually really similar. I think there's a point to be made for gen 3 to be slightly cheaper but having facets to unlock than a gen 2 legendary. I think it gives them an interesting spot between the cheaper gen 1 and more expensive gen 2.
Also when you say around 2.2k gold do you mean crafting costs, buy order or sell order costs?

[Sugar Min.5834]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:33 AM, Doggie.3184 said:

Even worst now that the Jade Runestone price just increased by like 120% due to the nerf just now so it's pretty ouch. I have 5 weapons to upgrade to Soo Won but think I'm only going to upgrade 2-3 of them now and dunno if I'll make anymore weapons. The default Aurene skin is a big eyesore so not worth having without a variant.

When they first released these I also wasted gold on a Zhaitan variant for Sword because I thought it'd be an account wide unlock for all future weapons. After finding out it was per weapon I'd of skipped it till at least Jormag release if I knew sooner. :x

The default Aurene's skin is an eye sore!? That's too much of an exaggeration 🙃 That golden wavery look and rainbow trail effects?! I love it! ❤️ and I have Aurene's Flight and Aurene's Bite. In fact amongst the variants, I only like Jormag (Ice) and Soo Won (Water) versions. The rest are just fire, vines, crystal and dark matter variants and they are blehs to me. To each their own I guess.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Min Min.9368

[Cuks.8241]

26 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

It's hard to get a real value for gen 2 as they are all account bound but the pure crafting costs are actually really similar. I think there's a point to be made for gen 3 to be slightly cheaper but having facets to unlock than a gen 2 legendary. I think it gives them an interesting spot between the cheaper gen 1 and more expensive gen 2.
Also when you say around 2.2k gold do you mean crafting costs, buy order or sell order costs?

Crafting cost.

Yeah they could increase the crafting cost of additional skins but if you want reliable sink I think it's better if you front load it into base weapon. It's too late now though, many have already crafted it, so maybe they need to increase the crafting cost of skins with adding more base materials.

Maybe just saying 2.2k crafting cost is a bit too general as it really depends on the market at the time. But I don't know what they were thinking making them so easy to craft in general. And on top you get a free precursor. 

[Redsnabba.9172]

3 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Crafting cost.

Yeah they could increase the crafting cost of additional skins but if you want reliable sink I think it's better if you front load it into base weapon. It's too late now though, many have already crafted it, so maybe they need to increase the crafting cost of skins with adding more base materials.

Maybe just saying 2.2k crafting cost is a bit too general as it really depends on the market at the time. But I don't know what they were thinking making them so easy to craft in general. And on top you get a free precursor. 

2.2k crafting costs would be about 40-50% more expensive than gen 2 which fair enough but then the facets should be really cheap imo.
I don't know why you said you could increase the crafting cost of additional skins though. I strongly disagree that they need to be even more expensive and anet constantly taking away more ways to earn mats for them is a really disappointing move.

As to the precursor - i mean yeah kinda free but it does take a lot of time to earn. Not sure it matters much overall.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

10 hours ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

It makes sense that gen 3 is cheaper than gen 2 because they added part of the costs on facets. What doesn't make sense is that each facet costs over 400 gold

The 400g price tag is fine for them as they're still legendary skins with footfall, draw, and attack effects.  However, if you're going for the full set, you'll be s pending ~2400g on top of the 1200g for the Aurene weapon itself which comes out to around 3600g total.  This is about as much as Eternity back in the day.  Personally, it feels a bit too much for one legendary as, with Eternity, you at least got to keep your legendary Greatswords Sunrise and Twilight (at least in the new legendary armory system).  Something I'd like to see is that, completing the collection of all 6 facets should give you another legendary weapon.  It can be skinless or a simple duplicate of the aurene one you already have but bound to your account immediately.

Personally, I'd like it if completing the collection for a given weapon type (All 6 variants + aurene weapon) gave a void version of the weapon that functioned as a legendary too.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Andifulated.3482
Clarification for the total cost.

[Cyninja.2954]

9 hours ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

The 400g price tag is fine for them as they're still legendary skins with footfall, draw, and attack effects.  However, if you're going for the full set, you'll be s pending ~2400g on top of the 1200g for the Aurene weapon itself which comes out to around 3600g total.  This is about as much as Eternity back in the day.  Personally, it feels a bit too much for one legendary as, with Eternity, you at least got to keep your legendary Greatswords Sunrise and Twilight (at least in the new legendary armory system).  Something I'd like to see is that, completing the collection of all 6 facets should give you another legendary weapon.  It can be skinless or a simple duplicate of the aurene one you already have but bound to your account immediately.

Personally, I'd like it if completing the collection for a given weapon type (All 6 variants + aurene weapon) gave a void version of the weapon that functioned as a legendary too.

and at the lowest point of cost to this day, when gen3 where around 1,100g and variants where around 280-290g a piece, the total price came out to be around 2,800 - 3,000 gold. Which is slightly above where 1 gen2 used to be at (peak of 2,800g on release and eventually settled at 2.2-2.4k gold for a long time), in this case with 7 skins though.

Again, all these complaints and threads around specific points in time for specific prices make 0 sense. These items are implemented as mid- to long-term goals (and let's not kid ourselves, also as a means to increase the TP interactions as well as encourage the gem-gold exchange) and the developers usually don't drastically shift things around due to short market shifts.

Talking fluctuating prices, what about the players who crafted the very first gen3 weapons, when A.Summoning Stones where 18-35g a piece, making a single gen3 cost over 4k gold and above? What about those of us who crafted their gen3s while stones where around 8-9g (total cost of around 1,700 gold per gen3, what about 6-7 (1,500-1,600) gold? If prices start falling again and eventually deteriorate past sub 1k some time in the future, should future players have to get taxed more for benefiting that demand dropped?

Here is the 1 thing any of us are in control of:

decide if the legendary (or variant) is worth the price it would cost you right now, then either get one or not.

These "XYZ is to expensive, I want it cheaper" threads have been with this game since day 1. Very rarely have the developers shifted or changed things to suite players who wanted things "cheaper" and in the few cases where they DID change or add things (legendary precursor collections for example), those additions did not result in drastic cost reductions in the short- to midterm.

EDIT:

I do agree with your approach of having legendaries similar in cost to each other with diverging perks, cost shouldn't be the main deciding factor for which legendary one crafts imo. That ship has sailed though and both approaches have merit (tying different legendaries to different resources results in better distributing players across content for example).

Edited March 5, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Forum Moderator.3074]

Hey'all please keep discusion civil and avoid posts to attack each other.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:37 PM, Min Min.9368 said:

The default Aurene's skin is an eye sore!? That's too much of an exaggeration 🙃 That golden wavery look and rainbow trail effects?! I love it! ❤️ and I have Aurene's Flight and Aurene's Bite. In fact amongst the variants, I only like Jormag (Ice) and Soo Won (Water) versions. The rest are just fire, vines, crystal and dark matter variants and they are blehs to me. To each their own I guess.

Yes, it's an eyesore. Other legendaries have unique looks and the Aurene legendaries are flashbangs, especially when drawn. They put the excessive Engineer rocket explosions from a while ago to shame.

[Ashen.2907]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:21 PM, Redsnabba.9172 said:

Things aren't overpriced because people buy them anyway? Do you even know what you're saying? x)

People agreeing that a luxury item is worth a given price point to them, as demonstrated by a decision to purchase, is the definition of not being overpriced. If no one is willing to pay a given price for something that is the definition of overpriced and the merchant would be incentivized to either lower the price in order to encourage sales, or if the item would be unprofitable at a lower price (not really applicable here) either figure out a way to produce it cheaper or stop making it and move on to a different product.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Redsnabba.9172]

The value of things is determined by supply and demand. Obviously everything has the price it has. Just because someone buys something doesn't mean they wanted to pay that much. There's no alternative way to get these products cheaper.
Personally I will indeed just move on to a different product but i find it very disappointing how this generation of legendaries is implemented atm.

Here's the problem I have with this generation of legendaries: It's an entire set of the same skins. You can craft all 16 legendaries and they all just look the same. It's quite the difference to the unique looks of gen 2 and gen 1. Now they have introduced the facets which allow you up to 7 different skins for said legendaries which I think actually puts them into an decent position design wise.
The problem starts by the cost of each facet that makes you have to pay an additional 2 legendaries for every legendary you want to fully unlock.
From my point of view gen 3 will give you 7 skins for the price of 3 times gen 2 or gen 1 so yeah I do think it's overpriced and they really should adjust the prices to something closer to gen 2 and the problem isn't the legendary but it's facets.

I don't see the advantage of the people here claiming the prices are fine. I don't agree with the aurene facet looking bad but it's really not it's selling point. I do think you should join me on asking for lower prices because I genuinely do think it would be better for everyone to not have to pay 2 legendaries on top of every single one of them.
What's the downside of having to pay less gold for the facets? If you want to grind for something else there are a ton of gemstore skins and other legendaries available all the time.

[Ashen.2907]

5 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

Just because someone buys something doesn't mean they wanted to pay that much.

Actually that is exactly what that means...unless someone showed up at their home and forced them to pay that much.

 

And sure, the current prices are too much for you, but that does not mean that they are overpriced in general. I dislike all of the gen 1 and all but one of the gen 2 legendaries. I would be willing to buy them for the convenience, but for no more than 10g each. Does that mean that a price of 11g would be overpriced in general?

Edited March 5, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Redsnabba.9172]

Overpriced just means something costs more than it's worth. Obviously that's always a subjective evaluation but I think it's fair to compare them to the other generations and conclude: these shouldn't cost 3 times the amount for the same benefits. So the reason I call them overpriced isn't because of some arbitrary "how much do i like the skins" comparison but merely pointing out the fact that you pay a lot more to unlock a full gen 3 one.

And yeah I guess if you don't have any actual use for legendaries at all then 11g would be overpriced TO YOU.
I'm glad you like the gen 3 ones. I just don't know why you want to pay 400 gold per facet

And seriously please a single one of the people saying the prices are fine: tell me what you gain by trying to keep the prices this high?

[Woof.8246]

13 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

And sure, the current prices are too much for you, but that does not mean that they are overpriced in general.

By any chance , are you a TP Lord ?

Edited March 5, 2023 by Woof.8246

[vares.8457]

If you think they cost too much, don’t craft them. I think the price is fine and it’s a good gold sink. I already have everything legendary and I am not that interested in gem store skins. Crafting variants is currently my way to spend gold and materials. And tbh, 300 - 400 gold is really not that much gold. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by vares.8457

[Redsnabba.9172]

It's 300-400 gold per aspect per weapon. Even if you take the lower 300 gold value that's 300x6x16 = 28800 gold.
You say it's not that much but if you really think it's that little feel free to send me that amount of gold.
This game has enough gold sinks and even if you don't like any gem store skins obviously other people do.
The economy in this game is clearly doing fine overall because of the gold to gem conversion. For anyone who paid attention the gold to gem prices have been really stable in the past years.
I don't agree that we need an even bigger gold sink and I doubt that if the gen 3 legendary facets were more reasonably priced that you'd in any negative way would notice this game being affected.
All these prices do is demotivate people from crafting this generation. It doesn't help as a gold sink.

You're very likely also wrong about the prices actually affecting the amount of gold available. The reason why you can buy a lot of these items on the trading posts for relatively cheap is because there is a majority of the player base not crafting these legendaries
What that means is if they are cheaper more people are gonna craft them which means the difference isn't the amount of gold in play but the amount of skins.

Here's the problem with your argument: you are saying that other people shouldn't have these skins unless they pay a ton of gold and i severely disagree.
I want anet to adjust the prices of gen 3 to gen 2 or 1 and that doesn't mean it's the same amount or cheap or anything along the lines. It means they should be somewhere comparable. I think an actually reasonable price range is 75-150% of a gen 2 legendary.

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

Here's the problem I have with this generation of legendaries: It's an entire set of the same skins. You can craft all 16 legendaries and they all just look the same.

I fail to see how this is supposed to be a problem at all. Finally there's a possibility to have matching legendary weapon skins to make a thematically matching outfit instead of building a look around one or two which might maybe somehow match a little. If you want differently looking skins, craft the previous tiers or don't craft "whole sets" of gen 3 legendary weapon skins.

45 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

The problem starts by the cost of each facet that makes you have to pay an additional 2 legendaries for every legendary you want to fully unlock.

This is not really a problem, because it's nothing more than a voluntary investment into additional -up to 6 on top of the default aurene one- legendary tier skins. The price for them is ok.

45 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

From my point of view gen 3 will give you 7 skins for the price of 3 times gen 2 or gen 1 so yeah I do think it's overpriced and they really should adjust the prices to something closer to gen 2 and the problem isn't the legendary but it's facets.

If we had -for example- gen1-7 legendaries without facets, any time you'd want to go for another/additional legendary skin, you'd have to pay a full legendary weapon crafting price. With facets any time you want to get an additional legendary skin, you get a discount.
but when you craft a full wepaon, you actually get a usable legendary weapon! -yes, except in most cases  that "additional full legendary weapon" stops mattering beyond 2 onehanders or 1 twohander and if you want to go for 6 additional skins, it means that even for some edge cases of "4onehanders"/"2 two handers" being useful for your build, you would be rather massively overpaying for any skin you want to get beyond those (but, again, in most cases it will be 2OH and 1TH).

The price for facets -which are optional additional legendary skins- seems reasonable.

45 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

I don't see the advantage of the people here claiming the prices are fine.

That's because you look at it not from the perspective of "what it is" and "what would be the alternative without facets", but instead from the perspective of you "wanting it cheaper because it would be good for me!". And if that's your only argument here, it's almost a bottomless one since it could be almost always cheaper and it would be always "better for you". That's not the point here though, the point is whether or not the price is reasonable for what it gives and I think it is (and seems people who keep crafting them think so too). Considering that, it is not overpriced and I don't think you have some objective case to make that it somehow is.

45 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

What's the downside of having to pay less gold for the facets?

What's the downside of you getting everything for free in the game? That's right, lack of long term goals in an mmorpg. The only reason you're arguing about facets and not "everything in the game" is because currently you want more legendary skins. But the ""argumentation"" you're going for here literally applies to the whole game, always could be cheaper/free-er.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

39 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

Obviously that's always a subjective evaluation but I think it's fair to compare them to the other generations and conclude: these shouldn't cost 3 times the amount for the same benefits

When you want to "compare it to the previous generations", you need to do it on the even terms. Even terms here means "one legendary weapon with one legendary skin", which for gen 3 means nothing more and nothing less than crafting the aurene legendary weapon. That's it. That's the price of gen 3 legendary weapon comparable with previous gen of legendary weapons. But you're not doing that, instead you're throwing 6 more legendary skins and try to claim it's somehow comparable. But it's not.

14 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

It's 300-400 gold per aspect per weapon. Even if you take the lower 300 gold value that's 300x6x16 = 28800 gold.
You say it's not that much but if you really think it's that little feel free to send me that amount of gold.

What I find funny about this take is that it seems to suggest you somehow think you deserve 96 additional legendary skins for cheap by default. I don't know where you got that idea from.

96. Legendary. Skins.

96.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

Late stage capitalism is such a joy IRL, our entertainments should be designed on its principles.

[vares.8457]

41 minutes ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

It's 300-400 gold per aspect per weapon. Even if you take the lower 300 gold value that's 300x6x16 = 28800 gold.
 

I don’t think you are supposed to craft all legendaries and all the variants for every legendary weapon. At least I don’t do that. I crafted the gen3 legendaries I liked and the variants I liked for them. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by vares.8457

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

And seriously please a single one of the people saying the prices are fine: tell me what you gain by trying to keep the prices this high?

A long-term goal to works towards. Surprisingly, some players enjoy not having everything handed to them at once.

FYI, I personally have been working towards eventually owning all legendary variants every since I finished owning all the gen3s. It's mix of managing my current resources, investing into the market, playing content as well as holding off unnecessary spending and waiting for prices to normalize.

If the prices were say half of what they are now, I would have been done end of last year.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Redsnabba.9172]

4 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

I don’t think you are supposed to craft all legendaries and all the variants for every legendary weapon. 

Idk what "supposed to" means but there's an actual achievement related to doing that so i would say at least it's not supposed to be impossible.
A lot of people will and do want to do that. And when i say a lot i mean a few thousand because most people will never get to see that much gold in their entire playtime.

[vares.8457]

1 minute ago, Redsnabba.9172 said:

Idk what "supposed to" means but there's an actual achievement related to doing that so i would say at least it's not supposed to be impossible.
 

It’s not impossible 

[Redsnabba.9172]

5 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

A long-term goal to works towards. Surprisingly, some players enjoy not having everything handed to them at once.

FYI, I personally have been working towards eventually owning all legendary variants every since I finished owning all the gen3s. It's mix of managing my current resources, investing into the market, playing content as well as holding off unnecessary spending and waiting for prices to normalize.

If the prices were say half of what they are now, I would have been done end of last year.

What's wrong with being done at the end of last year? Clearly you have a lot of gold and I'm glad for you. Are you trying to say there's nothing to do unless you're being forced to grind more? There's so much this game has to offer and even if you are done with this collection why not try to gather all the other skins that are available? If you earn so much gold that you already have those then congrats you have broken the game but 99.999% don't have 100% completion

You say prices will normalize maybe but as far as i can tell they already have. It's not like your average player will easily earn 19200 jade runestones and that's gonna make them super cheap. There are also fixed costs that are part of this equation so yeah i think the prices are normal.

[Redsnabba.9172]

3 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

It’s not impossible 

Sorry maybe i wasn't clear. I didn't mean it's impossible. I just meant the implication is more that you're "supposed to" do it as opposed to not do so. I'm just trying to say it's a real goal for a lot of people and the grind is too much imo. It's not like legendaries aren't already difficult to obtain