Skirmish tickets WvW - Legendary armor

[Goglak.2591]

19-25 weeks to get enough tickets (if you can even get max tickets a week) for legendary WvW armor is crazy compared to PvE or PvE.

6K+ alone just for Legendary War Insight!!!! cant we trade in Badges or something to earn more tickets or just lower the cost??? it is crazy compared to other legendary armor sets 

[TheGrimm.5624]

lol, oh no. Xen, popcorn, where is it?

[TheGrimm.5624]

55 minutes ago, Goglak.2591 said:

19-25 weeks to get enough tickets (if you can even get max tickets a week) for legendary WvW armor is crazy compared to PvE or PvE.

6K+ alone just for Legendary War Insight!!!! cant we trade in Badges or something to earn more tickets or just lower the cost??? it is crazy compared to other legendary armor sets 

You just missed a similar thread. Hence the popcorn reference, sometimes these can be a weird adventure but the armor is worth it especially if you end up WvWing more or have a lot of alts. If you are into threads there are various viewpoints in it, some you will like, others I admit you might not, but info is info. Short answer is we are already on something like the fifth reduction in requirements that have been made so you are getting in at a good time. Good hunting!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/127858-please-increase-the-amount-of-skirmish-claim-tickets-and-memory-of-battle/

 

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Goglak.2591 said:

19-25 weeks to get enough tickets (if you can even get max tickets a week) for legendary WvW armor is crazy compared to PvE or PvE.

6K+ alone just for Legendary War Insight!!!! cant we trade in Badges or something to earn more tickets or just lower the cost??? it is crazy compared to other legendary armor sets 

Choice. If you feel the WvW armor route is not for you, then do one of the other ones.

Or combine different legendary armor routes.

If you are enjoying WvW and become a regular player of the mode, the tickets required are not that big a deal and will accumulate.

If you are here just to "grab your legendary armor set because you can't be bothered to go the PvE or PvP route" then that is on you.

Last I checked, spvp could use an influx of players. Seems so weird (well not really weird, we all know why some of you are afking in this mode) to me that everyone complains WvW takes longer, yet refuse to PvE or PvP for the armors.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Goglak.2591 said:

19-25 weeks to get enough tickets (if you can even get max tickets a week) for legendary WvW armor is crazy compared to PvE or PvE.

6K+ alone just for Legendary War Insight!!!! cant we trade in Badges or something to earn more tickets or just lower the cost??? it is crazy compared to other legendary armor sets 

Ok, quick question: so do you have the 3000+ gold or so they also cost burning a hole in your pocket already?

[Xenesis.6389]

7 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol, oh no. Xen, popcorn, where is it?

🍿🍿🥂

[Gehenna.3625]

8 hours ago, Goglak.2591 said:

19-25 weeks to get enough tickets (if you can even get max tickets a week) for legendary WvW armor is crazy compared to PvE or PvE.

PvE or PvE huh? From what I remember PvP legendary armor sets take 24 weeks due to time gates. With mini seasons that were introduced fairly recently you can do it in 20-22 weeks. So really it's about the same as WvW. Read this guide if you like.

8 hours ago, Goglak.2591 said:

6K+ alone just for Legendary War Insight!!!! cant we trade in Badges or something to earn more tickets or just lower the cost??? it is crazy compared to other legendary armor sets 

I would be on board with them costing 750 tickets each, but it isn't that way and recently they've made changes allowing you to get more tickets per week. 🤷‍♂️

And again PvP armor doesn't take less time to get. Only PvE sets take a lot less time, but unless you get carried or pay for it, you do need to be aware of boss mechanics and the combat system. So I guess that's why it takes less time.

[Goglak.2591]

10 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Ok, quick question: so do you have the 3000+ gold or so they also cost burning a hole in your pocket already?

Why would i need 3K+ gold i have all the mats already from farming them

[devastoscz.9851]

Just mix and match if you're in a hurry. Do PvP until diamond, play WvW frequently, do a few raids each week. I mean if you're going for WvW armor, you're not doing it for the skins. Transmute or put an outfit on to unify.

Honestly its exasperating reading thread after thread complaining about the time it takes to get legendary armor; its supposed to be a long term goal. You don't NEED it right now, you can play WvW perfectly well with exotics/ascended while you get the armor.

Once you get it, that part of the progression is done, forever.

[Xenesis.6389]

Farming 101: Next time use the farm time on tickets instead because it's time gated soft capped per week and you can't buy it, and then buy whatever mats you need afterwards, cause you can do that whenever you want.

[Infusion.7149]

They put in skirmish tickets all over the place for caps/defense. Why is this complaint even a thing?

[PixelHero.5849]

In this post I make assumptions about how you play GW2, largely because I see a lot of people stumble over the same thing.  I might have missed the mark, and if I did then please read this with the thought that this is for others.

Yes, WvW armor is the slowest of all three legendary armor routes.  However, with the addition of weeklies and event tickets, it's faster now than it's ever been!

 

But I get it, if you're a PvE player it seems like an eternity to get WvW legendary armor, as (pre-buff) you have to spend ~20 hours x 20 weeks.  About 400 hours.  That seems insane.

 

But keep in mind there are people whose "natural" play state is WvW, not PvE.  They've been earning tickets from the beginning, from when they were fledgling little baby zerglings.  That 400 hours is the minimum total time investment from the beginning of their time in GW2, but they'll climb up through ascended gear and slowly put their legendary set together (probably struggling for gold), and once they have it, that gear cycle is done.  Then maybe they cast their eyes on the fancy weapons that seem so easy to a PvE player.

 

But WvW armor isn't the PvE armor set.  If you are a PvE player, your natural set is Raid armor which is MUCH less time investment to earn from your current position, acknowledging that you already spent hundreds of hours mastering world bosses, metas, strikes, fractals, and eventually, raids.  Think about where you are in your GW2 journey.  You already got hundreds of hours, if not thousands mastering working with others to take on ostensibly difficult content.  Some estimates of Raid armor put it as acquirable in as little as *18* hours of hard work.  To get to that point it's going to take the skill, coordination, buildcraft, and gearing earned over your existing hundreds of hours of gameplay.  The lower time requirement is in recognition of that investment.

 

WvW armor seems ridiculous because you're looking at the time required as an outrageous investment, but in reality it's only that way because you haven't already invested in that game mode.  That stiff 400 hour wall is there because you're essentially restarting from 0, starting your journey over.  Yes, it's the "easiest" armor to acquire, because all tickets take is time, but your time clock is essentially resetting to 0 time in game, rather than the hundreds of hours you've acquired in PvE.

 

 

So either buckle down and chip at Raids and have your armor fast, or kick back and stay a while.  WvW might grow on you.

[Gehenna.3625]

10 hours ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

But WvW armor isn't the PvE armor set.  If you are a PvE player, your natural set is Raid armor

This is the most common mistake that people make and why I insist on reiterating this point. Raids are niche PvE content and that's because the group of PvE'ers that doesn't Raid so vastly outnumbers the people who do Raid. So it's not natural for a PvE player to Raid as you suggest; most PvE'ers never set a single foot inside Raids so how would it be natural to them? I cannot stress this point enough.

Also people focus on the wrong things.

What WvW has in common with OW PvE is that you can play solo, run along zergs like you do World Bosses/ group events and not be directly held responsible for your (lack of) performance or lack of knowledge of the combat system. And in Raids (aswell as PvP) you can be and are directly held accountable for your performance. This is something that a lot of players are very, very uncomfortable with and as such the natural armor set to go for an OW PvE'ers is to go to WvW and not Raids.

Maybe there should be legendary armor sets that cater to their natural habitat. I mean you call it Raid armor yourself. That should've been your first clue.

[PixelHero.5849]

Oh, I agree, that's why I called WvW the easiest legendary armor to acquire.  But it is in a game mode that a PvE player has invested 0 time into, which is the only requirement that WvW armor really has.   But while Raids might be a step beyond where your average PvE player has stepped, they probably have done Strikes and Fractals, which are both small group instanced content and are meant to be stepping stones for Raids.  Yes, Raids are a step up in difficulty, but Strikes and Fractals should prepare a player for what is required in Raids.  ANet has recently reiterated that they intend for Strikes to be that stepping stone for Raids and that they want PvE players engaging in that content.  These are the end-game content types ANet wants players to engage with, for better or worse.  Open-world metas that are good for gold will only keep a player engaged for so long and Arenanet has intentionally placed the PvE legendary armor in end-game PvE content.

I agree that WvW armor is *easier* to acquire, really only requiring time, largely for the reason you state:  it is a game mode designed around individual players having minimal impact.  PvP and Raid armor reward personal skill, and have shorter time requirements to reflect that.  WvW doesn't, so the content is gated another way: time.   Just like you have hundreds of hours in PvE before you started looking into legendary armor, a WvW player has hundreds of hours in WvW. 

There ARE people who dedicate themselves to these game modes, and if end-game WvW armor didn't require a large time investment in WvW, what WOULD it require?  You said yourself that the appeal of WvW is that individual performance is less of a factor, so what would be the gatekeeper that makes legendary armor an end-game aspirational goal for a WvW player?  Number of times conquering Stonemist Castle?  Sheer player kill count?  What other restriction could there be to make acquiring your end-game armor compelling for a WvW player?

The WvW armor track is designed for the WvW player, not for you.  You are stepping out of PvE content and into WvW, where you haven't invested in the one thing WvW really requires: time.  So I reiterate, you can either buckle down and do the difficult end-game PvE content designed to reward you with your legendary armor, or you can kick back and invest the time required to "start over" from 0 in WvW, where all that is required to acquire your endgame armor is time.

 

*aside*: if we want to talk ridiculous time-gating, let's talk about WvW ascended armor taking a minimum of 18 weeks to acquire all the Grandmaster shards.  Literally just two weeks less than what it takes to get the Legendary, which is just silly.  Fortunately arenanet has been making changes there to make it possible to gear up earlier.

Edited March 5, 2023 by PixelHero.5849

[ArchonWing.9480]

37 minutes ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

Oh, I agree, that's why I called WvW the easiest legendary armor to acquire.  But it is in a game mode that a PvE player has invested 0 time into, which is the only requirement that WvW armor really has.   But while Raids might be a step beyond where your average PvE player has stepped, they probably have done Strikes and Fractals, which are both small group instanced content and are meant to be stepping stones for Raids.  Yes, Raids are a step up in difficulty, but Strikes and Fractals should prepare a player for what is required in Raids.  ANet has recently reiterated that they intend for Strikes to be that stepping stone for Raids and that they want PvE players engaging in that content.  These are the end-game content types ANet wants players to engage with, for better or worse.  Open-world metas that are good for gold will only keep a player engaged for so long and Arenanet has intentionally placed the PvE legendary armor in end-game PvE content.

I agree that WvW armor is *easier* to acquire, really only requiring time, largely for the reason you state:  it is a game mode designed around individual players having minimal impact.  PvP and Raid armor reward personal skill, and have shorter time requirements to reflect that.  WvW doesn't, so the content is gated another way: time.   Just like you have hundreds of hours in PvE before you started looking into legendary armor, a WvW player has hundreds of hours in WvW. 

There ARE people who dedicate themselves to these game modes, and if end-game WvW armor didn't require a large time investment in WvW, what WOULD it require?  You said yourself that the appeal of WvW is that individual performance is less of a factor, so what would be the gatekeeper?  Number of times conquering Stonemist Castle?  Sheer player kill count?  What other restriction could there be to make acquiring your end-game armor compelling for a WvW player?

The WvW armor track is designed for the WvW player, not for you.  You are stepping out of PvE content and into WvW, where you haven't invested in the one thing WvW really requires: time.  So I reiterate, you can either buckle down and do the difficult end-game PvE content designed to reward you with your legendary armor, or you can kick back and invest the time required to "start over" from 0 in WvW, where all that is required to acquire your endgame armor is time.

 

*aside*: if we want to talk ridiculous time-gating, let's talk about WvW ascended armor taking a minimum of 18 weeks to acquire all the Grandmaster shards.  Literally just two weeks less than what it takes to get the Legendary, which is just silly.  Fortunately the recent changes made it possible to acquire those faster by just playing the game mode.

I think a better way of putting it is that legendary armor, regardless of game mode, is easy for serious players to attain, as you noted those that already established in the game mode can attain it pretty reasonably. Players like that will often stay in their respective game modes beyond the legendary and are the core of said game modes.

It's also possible to combine methods if you don't care about skins so you are rewarded for playing everything.

The problem with this game is that the pve doesn't really prepare the average player for advanced content while WvW is pretty much as is, and arguably gets easier when you unlock more abilities. You have to learn something in WvW, or you will just get farmed, even if it's just avoiding things you can't fight, while in OW you can get carried easily by the map and just wp if you die (or just wait for a res, psstt).

This results in lots of pve gatekeeping because there's plenty of people that don't know how to play their characters because they have whacked builds that don't do anything nor do they really know how to use skills beyond pressing buttons. And because there's really no way to verify skills, this results in ridiculous requirements like "you must do unrelated raid x times", etc.

 

So yes while raiders can get everything in a few weeks, I just don't consider it a real number for most. Not to mention legendaries cost lots of materials, and farming 2k gold (?) worth of materials in a few weeks a'int very casual either.

This is not to say the status quo is good either, since pve rewards you lots of stuff while earning your legendary while WvW does not, though this is changing.

Edited March 5, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[PixelHero.5849]

Definitely.  I actually agree with the OP in many regards, and am on the same path they describe.  I actively avoid game types that promote toxicity against individuals, such as Raids and PvP, so WvW was the natural choice I stepped into.  So far, I've put together my first piece and am working on the second.

But requesting that WvW armor be changed to cater to me robs the WvW player of their ultimate endgame armor.  Legendary armor is meant to be an accomplishment, and I don't think any of us have a problem with Raids or PvP offering an armor as an accomplishment for achieving the highest heights.  For reaching "end-game."

That's what legendary armor is:  a long-term, aspirational, endgame reward for achieving the highest peaks of the game.

There are two problems:

1) The PvE engame, which are Raids, are difficult to get into.  That's a multilevel problem, and one Arenanet has decided should be tackled by preparing players through Strikes and Fractals as stepping stones to the most difficult content.

2) WvW demands very little of the player, and is comparatively easy to achieve.  The very game-mode abstracts away personal achievement for the greater whole, and so also can't really reward personal achievement with direct progress toward "end-game".

This leads us to a situation where your average PvE player is left with two options:  Either buckle down and learn the hard PvE endgame content, or start over at 0 in  an alternative gamemode and start the journey all over again.

Regardless of the personal choices that lead an individual down either of those two paths, that's what the game presents.  What is not underlined enough, however, is that the WvW path seems long and arduous because the player is literally starting over  (literally, you have 0 WXP and mastery points) in an alternative game mode to avoid what is considered their own endgame.

And it DOES seem long and ridiculous at first, because the PvE player is already at the point where they are considering their own legendary armor, nearing the end of their own journey.  But they are starting over and essentially stepping into the shoes of a WvW player just starting the game for the first time. Their thousand hours of PvE progress isn't considered, and asking for the requirements to be adjusted for the PvE player is ignoring that those requirements were established for the WvW player, to provide *their* endgame, not the PvE player's.

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by PixelHero.5849

[Gehenna.3625]

54 minutes ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

Oh, I agree, that's why I called WvW the easiest legendary armor to acquire.  But it is in a game mode that a PvE player has invested 0 time into, which is the only requirement that WvW armor really has.   But while Raids might be a step beyond where your average PvE player has stepped, they probably have done Strikes and Fractals, which are both small group instanced content and are meant to be stepping stones for Raids.  Yes, Raids are a step up in difficulty, but Strikes and Fractals should prepare a player for what is required in Raids.  ANet has recently reiterated that they intend for Strikes to be that stepping stone for Raids and that they want PvE players engaging in that content.  These are the end-game content types ANet wants players to engage with, for better or worse.  Open-world metas that are good for gold will only keep a player engaged for so long and Arenanet has intentionally placed the PvE legendary armor in end-game PvE content.

From comments by Anet about the sources of mystic coins when changes came with EoD we can surmise that also fractals are not done by most PvE'ers. And I think that Strikes are the same. So I don't agree with you on that.

54 minutes ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

I agree that WvW armor is *easier* to acquire, really only requiring time, largely for the reason you state:  it is a game mode designed around individual players having minimal impact.  PvP and Raid armor reward personal skill, and have shorter time requirements to reflect that.  WvW doesn't, so the content is gated another way: time.   Just like you have hundreds of hours in PvE before you started looking into legendary armor, a WvW player has hundreds of hours in WvW. 

I'm not sure if PvP requires more skill because I hear complaints about afk'ers as well from there, but you can be called out on it during the matches.

54 minutes ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

There ARE people who dedicate themselves to these game modes, and if end-game WvW armor didn't require a large time investment in WvW, what WOULD it require?  You said yourself that the appeal of WvW is that individual performance is less of a factor, so what would be the gatekeeper that makes legendary armor an end-game aspirational goal for a WvW player?  Number of times conquering Stonemist Castle?  Sheer player kill count?  What other restriction could there be to make acquiring your end-game armor compelling for a WvW player?

The appeal to OW PvE'rs, not to WvW'ers themselves. WvW is hard to quantify because everything you mention can be exploited in various ways. What I'm saying is that WvW is the lesser evil for many people that have to choose between PvP/WvW/Raids.

54 minutes ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

The WvW armor track is designed for the WvW player, not for you.  You are stepping out of PvE content and into WvW, where you haven't invested in the one thing WvW really requires: time.  So I reiterate, you can either buckle down and do the difficult end-game PvE content designed to reward you with your legendary armor, or you can kick back and invest the time required to "start over" from 0 in WvW, where all that is required to acquire your endgame armor is time.

You make another mistake in assuming I'm not a WvW player. I already have the heavy armor set complete, I got conflux, I have warbringer and am almost done with completing my light armor set.

My stake in this is that I would like to see fewer OW PvE'ers in WvW because they don't really participate in a meaningful manner. But because I also play OW PvE a lot and I don't like Raids/Strikes/Fractals and I also dislike PvP, I do understand why a lot of them come to WvW when they want to get legendary armor.

54 minutes ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

*aside*: if we want to talk ridiculous time-gating, let's talk about WvW ascended armor taking a minimum of 18 weeks to acquire all the Grandmaster shards.  Literally just two weeks less than what it takes to get the Legendary, which is just silly.  Fortunately arenanet has been making changes there to make it possible to gear up earlier.

Well, this is no longer a discussion point, because we get lots of grandmaster shards with the new bonus rewards. And besides, you can craft more as you need them, so it never took that long unless you relied completely on drops. But as I said, it's a moot point now.

[PixelHero.5849]

You can pick apart individual statements, but that just avoids the root of the conversation.  And if you look at my first post, I specifically said I HAD to make assumptions to address the topic, and if I was wrong, then it should be taken that I was talking in general.

 

The root of the problem is time is the only measure of end-game for a WvW player.  And the armor is designed for them, not for players of other game modes..  I do not think that reducing the time required really fixes the problem, the problem is that PvE players are stepping out of their gamemode and into WvW to avoid their own end-game content, and are effectively starting over without realizing it, resetting their "progress" to 0.

Edited March 5, 2023 by PixelHero.5849

[Woof.8246]

33 minutes ago, PixelHero.5849 said:

And it DOES seem long and ridiculous at first, because the PvE player is already at the point where they are considering their own legendary armor, nearing the end of their own journey.  But they are starting over and essentially stepping into the shoes of a WvW player just starting the game for the first time. Their thousand hours of PvE progress isn't considered

 

So PvE players , are sacrificing alot  by trying other modes .

We should wonder why they  don't join their intended mode , rather than not allow them to get the item faster (with faster acquisition it will benefit and the normal WvWers with stat swapping)

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Woof.8246

[Gehenna.3625]

2 minutes ago, Woof.8246 said:

So PvE players , are sacrificing alot  by trying other modes .

We should wonder why they  don't join their intended mode , rather than not allow them to get the item faster (with faster acquisition it will benefit and the normal WvW that allows him more freedom in swap stats)

 

You'd almost think that adding legendary armors to OW PvE would make them stop going to WvW.

[ArchonWing.9480]

42 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

From comments by Anet about the sources of mystic coins when changes came with EoD we can surmise that also fractals are not done by most PvE'ers.

The discussion at hand was regarding Fractal CM's, as they were the only ones to reward mystic coins. Fractal CMs are indeed a small part of fractals, and many players don't do those, so the impact of the coins is not that big. And even without those coins, fractals are still the highest source of gold/hour so taking away the coins was somewhat justified on those grounds in an effort to make Strike Missions more lucrative.

 

But that discussion has nothing to do with fractals in general.

Edited March 5, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Gibson.4036]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:39 PM, Goglak.2591 said:

19-25 weeks to get enough tickets (if you can even get max tickets a week) for legendary WvW armor is crazy compared to PvE or PvE.

6K+ alone just for Legendary War Insight!!!! cant we trade in Badges or something to earn more tickets or just lower the cost??? it is crazy compared to other legendary armor sets 

I haven’t played WvW with the new reward updates.

I did initially set out to work on legendary armor in WvW, but quickly realized PvP was a much smoother path.

WvW penalizes new players by giving fewer pips based on rank. Once you’ve got enough experience to play ranked sPvP however, the matchmaker will funnel you toward a 50% win rate and you won’t have to play twice as much to earn the same track progress as the veteran players.

WvW has a weekly reset, so you need to play your time each week to cap your rewards. PvP has eight week seasons, allowing you to play a bunch some weeks, little others, and still reach reward cap.

PvP gives good gold.

Beyond the all the minimum time calculations people use to compare, PvP legendary armor feels like a long term goal I steadily progress toward, even if I’m not a hardcore PvPer. WvW legendary armor, however, feels like it was designed for full time WvW players.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Solvar.7953]

I'd like there to be a more PvE (non raid) method of getting legendary armor, but that doesn't exist.

The fact that it takes 20 hours/week for a new player (or player on a lower ranked server) to get the 250 WvW claim tickets is a lot of time (~3 hours/day).

That in itself wouldn't bother me so much, but the fact you get more tickets/time for later ranks (and the chest at the end of each tier has more) means that to maximize it, you really need to try to get that max time in.  20 hours 1 week, and 0 hours the next will get you more tickets than 10 hours/week.

I'm still reflecting on how the weeklies and other rewards affect this - I think that goes in the right direction - reward for participation, not time.  The current system also does reward those players with high WvW levels with more tickets, which may be one reason that some number of players have piles of tickets they don't need - not only do they get more tickets/tick, but to get that high level meant they have spent a lot time (and thus earned a lot of tickets) in WvW.

 

[captrowdy.9561]

I’ve been playing for almost two years now. I’ve done instanced pve less then 10 times. From pvp/wvw I have enough to get leggy armor but I still need mats. It’s been a slow but fine journey.