Rewards for repairs need to go

[Eudaimonia.8695]

It negatively affects fights in objectives. People don't build defensive siege, don't disable or at least try to kill some stragglers. All they do is waste supply repairing a wall/gate while it is being damaged. They don't contribute anything to the team. They're being 100% useless and it's always the same people that abuse this nonsense.

 

Note: I'm only talking about the players that knowingly abuse the reward system, not the players that repair when it actually makes sense.

 

Revert this kitten so people don't get rewarded for doing nothing.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Eudaimonia.8695

[MedievalThings.5417]

What's funny is I see MORE people fighting than I ever did before.  People both trying to take AND people defending.  Repairing, running supply and actually fighting instead watching a 50 man ktrain and backcap after they leave.  Anet spent 5 years nerfing defense and now we finally have a weekly that is mostly take and bonus' for defending (which includes repairing, but it is what it is).  WvW hasn't looked this healthy in 8 years.

[Eudaimonia.8695]

1 hour ago, Ubi.4136 said:

What's funny is I see MORE people fighting than I ever did before.  People both trying to take AND people defending.  Repairing, running supply and actually fighting instead watching a 50 man ktrain and backcap after they leave.  Anet spent 5 years nerfing defense and now we finally have a weekly that is mostly take and bonus' for defending (which includes repairing, but it is what it is).  WvW hasn't looked this healthy in 8 years.

 

Nobody denies that there is more activity. That is not what this thread is about.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

It negatively affects fights in objectives. People don't build defensive siege, don't disable or at least try to kill some stragglers. All they do is waste supply repairing a wall/gate while it is being damaged. They don't contribute anything to the team. They're being 100% useless and it's always the same people that abuse this nonsense.

 

Note: I'm only talking about the players that knowingly abuse the reward system, not the players that repair when it actually makes sense.

 

Revert this kitten so people don't get rewarded for doing nothing.

So step one, reword your subject as it implies you are just about karma training and not interested in fights. I say this as based on your title that was the first impression. I agree smarter supply use is good, no repair though is just karma trains, no thanks. But how do you see them breaking that out? I already provided some samples about that in other threads but I don't support the meta of going back to don't repair at all since its a waste of time. We need balance in attacking and defense and we need reasons to win to help encourage people to hold what they own, take the other side's stuff, and fight to win the week regardless of tier.

[Ashen.2907]

If someone dumping supply into a gate means that a tower holds long enough for my friends and I to get there to fight the attackers I am not going to complain that they used that supply.

[Gorani.7205]

Getting broken gates closed and crushed walls up again , to lock attackers in and keep respawned attackers out from rejoining the attack is a valid use of supply IMO. Perhaps rewarding defending players only with event participation when the wall is below 50% is a decent way to solve the problem of "defense, bonus reward leeching" we currently see (mostly on SMC).

[Gehenna.3625]

5 hours ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

It negatively affects fights in objectives. People don't build defensive siege, don't disable or at least try to kill some stragglers. All they do is waste supply repairing a wall/gate while it is being damaged. They don't contribute anything to the team. They're being 100% useless and it's always the same people that abuse this nonsense.

How is that different from before? I mean I saw this type of thing before the new rewards came in. Just now they're motivated to repair walls (even when it's not needed)>

5 hours ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

Note: I'm only talking about the players that knowingly abuse the reward system, not the players that repair when it actually makes sense.

I admit that there probably those types of players who always go for low effort. But these players never built siege nor disabled enemy siege before this.

5 hours ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

Revert this kitten so people don't get rewarded for doing nothing.

And well, it's not doing nothing. They do repair walls. Doing nothing is not participating in fights and standing in the circle to get rewarded. That's what I call doing nothing or leeching and that happened already before these rewards came. I mean, I'm being serious. There are players, even when it's about supply camps that just stand there waiting for you to kill the npc's and when you're done they just step into the circle so they get credit for the cap.

All the new rewards did was show you a new way of being a low effort player, not a change of people turning into low effort players. Ok, maybe a few but that could also be because the new rewards brought a bunch of people back to WvW that saw an opportunity. But beyond that it's probably the same players that just stood in cap circles. Perhaps Anet should investigate WHY there are so many low effort players in WvW and do something about that.

You know, addressing the cause instead of the symptoms.

[Johje Holan.4607]

Do people waste supply like this at structures other than stone mist?  Do you even get defense credit for repairing on the borderlands maps?  I don’t really pay attention to rewards so I’m not even sure. 
 

It would be super annoying and detrimental if it happened at home keep or the BL keeps. But it’s kind of good to have the outer walls of SM constantly down and people wasting SM supplies. Having a T3 SM is bad for the game. 
 

Having said that, if all you’re doing is repairing then you shouldn’t get anything beyond the minimum of rewards.  I saw someone doing it once and asking others to help. This was at outer red keep on EB. Now that was hurting the team. I gave the person the benefit of doubt and pointed out to them that it was a waste of time and supplies since the wall was under constant treb attack and we didn’t have enough people to go kill the trebs. They said “oh right, that’s true” and they stopped and helped fight instead. 
 

I do wonder, is it the repair rewards that are causing the population increase in WvW or is it the rewards in general. If Anet did change it as the OP asks, would people stop playing?  Would anyone even notice?

[kash.9213]

I get the frustration, but those people repairing SMC walls being trebbed, or tower walls being trebbed from SMC are very likely to keep doing that if there are no rewards for repairing. They know it's draining supply and that's the point. 

Otherwise, people should definitely be encouraged to repair and clean things up after an attack. It's a piece of the siege dynamic and it shouldn't always fall on a few people all of the time if everyone else bounced to fill their bags more. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Johje Holan.4607 said:

I do wonder, is it the repair rewards that are causing the population increase in WvW or is it the rewards in general. 

Rewards in general and its a new feature which will also draw people. Right now you just see more people using their supply during defense events go up. So instead of having one to three people stuck on repairing alone after the event because they didn't want to leave a wall just to have it fall after a single shot, the repairs are done before the event is over. Sometimes too early I agree. New players though will follow the actions of other players so make a show of destroying the siege first and odds are better that newer players will follow the trend.

Its harder to watch for new players on your own side though since if not in a group you can't tell their rank so if in doubt you have to rig a test on the other side to see it. Set a cata on an uncontested keep, ideally not easily seen without leaving the keep, hit the wall once or twice but stop fast so its barely damaged and do not contest any longer than would be as if someone had aggro'd the guards. Then watch who shows. What I have seen is its usually higher level players scouting. Not seeing new players running to objectives looking to just jump in and repair. 

Right now people are complaining about supply use on defense, wait till they add the failed assault objectives and how much supply is wasted then. Odds are good that the number of base blue siege you see going up and in bad spots is going to rise and supply stockpiles everywhere will be way down.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Honestly, even if these people are no more than speedbumps so the real defenders can come, that's already an improvement. People will naturally branch out once defending is seen as a worthwhile activity. We cannot punish players because of abuse by a few.

It's a psychological thing where if people see that nobody is making any effort in defending the objective, they're just going to ride past.

You can always tell people to repair after.

Still better than those no damage people pew pewing from the top and feeding the enemy via pulled.

  

12 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

What's funny is I see MORE people fighting than I ever did before.  People both trying to take AND people defending.  Repairing, running supply and actually fighting instead watching a 50 man ktrain and backcap after they leave.  Anet spent 5 years nerfing defense and now we finally have a weekly that is mostly take and bonus' for defending (which includes repairing, but it is what it is).  WvW hasn't looked this healthy in 8 years.

Yea, incentivizing people to do other things other than karma train turned out to be a fantastic idea. It just took that long xD.

Edited March 5, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Mihile.7609]

13 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

What's funny is I see MORE people fighting than I ever did before.  People both trying to take AND people defending.  Repairing, running supply and actually fighting instead watching a 50 man ktrain and backcap after they leave.  Anet spent 5 years nerfing defense and now we finally have a weekly that is mostly take and bonus' for defending (which includes repairing, but it is what it is).  WvW hasn't looked this healthy in 8 years.

This game has been the most fun it's ever been for me. Having fights in caves, holes, healing the SMC Leader dude, fighting all over SMC in top floor, around stairs, pushing people to fall off the castle at top somehow. Building things like AC on keeps, pushing them off while we cap it. It's just so wild now. I never knew how much fun WvW would really be until these last few days and I was already having good fun to start. I wonder how it was back in the day. So far, a lot of people are really enjoying it as expressed in chat. I kinda forgot about the rewards ngl lol.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Kain.9136

[Woof.8246]

16 hours ago, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

It negatively affects fights in objectives. People don't build defensive siege, don't disable or at least try to kill some stragglers. All they do is waste supply repairing a wall/gate while it is being damaged. They don't contribute anything to the team. They're being 100% useless and it's always the same people that abuse this nonsense.

What if :

a) We lock the Supply Depot into an activation Guild perk .

b)It will be unlock automatically to be looted 50+ times (either be used by 3 defenders , 15x each for repair  or 50x players) at 50% wall hp (5min cd-no more stalemates...or unlock the Guild Perk and let the zerg drain the place)

c) Damaging players with skills or defensive sieges triggers a small npc to repair the walls in the meanwhile (damaging a player 10 times , leave an invisible loot on their feet and each Tower-keep can have an invisible Dark hole to sack it up and summon the Repairman .Ofc more defenders>>more loot>>decline after a while of the npc spawn>>not stalemates)

Edited March 5, 2023 by Woof.8246

[Sleepwalker.1398]

This wall repairing is getting out of hand.

We are against Mag this week and have perma repairers at keep cos Mag just love hugging trebs in their areas.

At 1 point there was 5 people repairing and using constant supply drops as well and not leaving the walls that were being trebbed.

1 person also was repairing for more that 5 hours straight. I told him there is better rewards in pve but he liked what he was doing.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

*clutches pearls* How DaRe PeOplE rEpAiR WaLls?!?!?!?!

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

This wall repairing is getting out of hand.

We are against Mag this week and have perma repairers at keep cos Mag just love hugging trebs in their areas.

At 1 point there was 5 people repairing and using constant supply drops as well and not leaving the walls that were being trebbed.

1 person also was repairing for more that 5 hours straight. I told him there is better rewards in pve but he liked what he was doing.

Not in the matchup but questions for you if your of the mind for some? So does that mean your keep hasn't fallen? And how is supply getting in? The situation was already designed to run the supply out of keeps to encourage more keep fights, so are you seeing that or is the other side not trying to take it since the walls are staying up?

[Nidome.1365]

NO, rewards for repairing DO NOT need to go, in fact there should be repair rewards for repairing after a successful defence to encourage people to hang around and repair rather than running off somewhere leaving it with low walls/gates. Participation for repairing (and treb/ram/cat use needs to be increased so it doesn't erode so you don't lose participation from post-defence repairing or because you are trying to open something that is being repaired.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Not in the matchup but questions for you if your of the mind for some? So does that mean your keep hasn't fallen? And how is supply getting in? The situation was already designed to run the supply out of keeps to encourage more keep fights, so are you seeing that or is the other side not trying to take it since the walls are staying up?

We've kept it going for 3 days. 

I'm no Weaver expert, i just press buttons.

 

[Xenesis.6389]

So first people complain about losing everything in ebg to mag...

Now complain people repairing too much and keeping your stuff in ebg against them?

Am I reading that right? 🥴

 

Anyways I see it's business as usual in T3/4, people defending, people capping, people using disablers, people using siege. 🤷‍♂️

[TheGrimm.5624]

44 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

We've kept it going for 3 days. 

I'm no Weaver expert, i just press buttons.

 

So if people hadn't repaired it seems you would have lost the objective considering the attacks. You showed that's it active which is when you want people to create choke points or break up an attack. Not sure how that supports not repairing at tactical times. Other key is you held your keeps which is also part of the issue when encouraging people to hold what they own which is where we were missing an element on the defense side. So I would error on people making a bad call and giving more a reason to block a cap versus hold your sups and we will take this back later kind of logic.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

39 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

So first people complain about losing everything in ebg to mag...

Now complain people repairing too much and keeping your stuff in ebg against them?

Am I reading that right? 🥴

 

Anyways I see it's business as usual in T3/4, people defending, people capping, people using disablers, people using siege. 🤷‍♂️

Atleast we trying to put up a fight, unlike some people or other servers that just take the Mag week off.

 

14 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So if people hadn't repaired it seems you would have lost the objective considering the attacks. You showed that's it active which is when you want people to create choke points or break up an attack. Not sure how that supports not repairing at tactical times. Other key is you held your keeps which is also part of the issue when encouraging people to hold what they own which is where we were missing an element on the defense side. So I would error on people making a bad call and giving more a reason to block a cap versus hold your sups and we will take this back later kind of logic.

Because as you say, at tactical times....there is no supply left cos players have wasted it by putting in the same wall thats being trebbed. 

I don't know...maybe build shield gen or something.

TC does have a few guilds / players that have the mentality of "oh let them take it and we'll cap it back later." But then again, this is Mag, you lose your 3rd and they will spawn you for hours.

[Chaos God.1639]

a lot of novice players can join wvw. for them this is an easy way to get a new lvl and get better gear. this will probably attract more players to wvw. rewarding for repairing also made supplies more valuable.

so if devs now are going to see that wvw got more popular after their changes, good luck trying to tell them that those changes were bad.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Chaos God.1639

[xDumplinx.7983]

Repairing walls/gates is participating in WvW. The OP seems to see it as “if they aren’t doing it the way I’m doing it then they aren’t helping”

 

I would rather people repair walls and keep the enemy out so I can concentrate on going about the map killing the other teams

 

Take the rewards away and no-one will repair walls, and the fights will mainly end up at SMC every 5 minutes so the next team can flip it

[Gehenna.3625]

4 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Atleast we trying to put up a fight, unlike some people or other servers that just take the Mag week off.

As noble as that sounds, this is just a game and not having any chance of winning for a week is just depressing. So why expose yourself to that?

4 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Because as you say, at tactical times....there is no supply left cos players have wasted it by putting in the same wall thats being trebbed. 

I don't know...maybe build shield gen or something.

The minds of most wvw'ers don't include siege in their considerations and then there are the afk'ers and leechers who don't care about wvw at all. Just the rewards. I mean, I can't go a day in wvw without seeing people stand in a tower or keep, next to a siege weapon and not refreshing it or being attacked by overwhelming numbers and then there are 4 ACs present and only one is being used.

[xDumplinx.7983]

4 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Atleast we trying to put up a fight, unlike some people or other servers that just take the Mag week off.

Good on you for putting up a fight!  Me personally, I take MAG week off, I'm playing the game to have fun, and being spawn camped and rolled over 50 v 1 isn't my definition of fun.

 

4 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Because as you say, at tactical times....there is no supply left cos players have wasted it by putting in the same wall thats being trebbed. 

 

repairing walls is just as important as building siege, because all the defensive siege in the world won't stop the flood of players coming through the 5 broken walls that haven't been repaired.  Do you think players are wasting supplies because it means you have to run further to a camp to restock your own? Or are upset because these other players don't share your view of how WvW should be played, and will happily spend time repairing walls, earning rewards, while you are out swinging the pixel hammer round killing enemies? Or do you feel that you are unjustifiably being punished by earning less reward for doing the things you like in WvW?

 

Not trying to be rude or anything, but maybe you need to worry about how you play the game, and what your contribution is to the team. Others will play how they want, even if some of it is questionable or just downright crap, but it is their right to play the game mode how they see fit, not how you deem they should.... sounds a bit elitist to me. Maybe you should transfer to MAG?