WvW Suggestion: Allow Tome of Knowledge to increase WvW Rank.

[SGao.4982]

I have about 3000 Tome of Knowledge in the bank and I get more every week playing WvW.

I have more spirit shards than I'll ever need & more characters max that I can play. I have no other use for them.

 

It would be great if we could spend the Tome of Knowledge on our WvW Rank.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

While I surely would use my 1000+ useless Tomes of Knowledge for this purpose, I also think it gives an unfair advantage towards players who leveled to 10K the hard way.

[SGao.4982]

8 minutes ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

While I surely would use my 1000+ useless Tomes of Knowledge for this purpose, I also think it gives an unfair advantage towards players who leveled to 10K the hard way.

 

What advantage could it give?

Players have all WXP Upgrades / Abilities unlocked by the time they reach 1226, which is a relatively low rank to attain. Anything after that really only contributes to personal loot from any additional pips you gain per new rank tier. But even then (using my rank as an example) being in Platinum vs being in Mithril (if they did add this feature) is difference of playing for an average of 11 hours vs playing for an average of 10 hours. 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

43 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

 

What advantage could it give?

Players have all WXP Upgrades / Abilities unlocked by the time they reach 1226, which is a relatively low rank to attain. Anything after that really only contributes to personal loot from any additional pips you gain per new rank tier. But even then (using my rank as an example) being in Platinum vs being in Mithril (if they did add this feature) is difference of playing for an average of 11 hours vs playing for an average of 10 hours. 

 

Well, the advantage of skipping many levels. Rank 10K comes with a prestige title. I guess that someone who leveled it the hard way won't be very happy if their hard work gets devalued by other players using stacks of tomes to achieve the same.

[Riba.3271]

It is not a terrible idea but 10k is already hit so fast if you just play the game and win. There are plenty of players that would already be 30k and above.

 

Believe me, higher rank isn't better: as a low rank, you can make much bigger outplays. If you really care about your rank, you want for the journey to last as long as possible, I have even heard about people who hit 10k then quit the game because gaining levels was such a big deal for them.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, SGao.4982 said:

 

What advantage could it give?

Players have all WXP Upgrades / Abilities unlocked by the time they reach 1226, which is a relatively low rank to attain. Anything after that really only contributes to personal loot from any additional pips you gain per new rank tier. But even then (using my rank as an example) being in Platinum vs being in Mithril (if they did add this feature) is difference of playing for an average of 11 hours vs playing for an average of 10 hours. 

 

If there is no advantage (of whatever nature), then there is also no reason to skip ahead now is there?

Edited March 11, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The game is a decade old, maybe don't worry about the exclusivity of prestige titles most players leveled by stacking boosters in Edge of the Mists WXP and karma trains to begin with? Whatever benefits newer players is whats more important for the long-term survival of the game mode.

[Zyreva.1078]

41 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

The game is a decade old, maybe don't worry about the exclusivity of prestige titles most players leveled by stacking boosters in Edge of the Mists WXP and karma trains to begin with? Whatever benefits newer players is whats more important for the long-term survival of the game mode.

I don't see how making "prestige" titles/long term achievements easier to get (primarily for "old" players - as newer ones won't have many tomes banked up), would benefit new players and/or longevity of the game. Players who care about those meaningless things would run out of stuff to work towards - and therefore motivation to play the game - more quickly, and those who don't care about those things ... well, they don't care.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[MedievalThings.5417]

2 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

While I surely would use my 1000+ useless Tomes of Knowledge for this purpose, I also think it gives an unfair advantage towards players who leveled to 10K the hard way.

The hard way for tons of max players was keep/kill trading in eotm.  

[Xenesis.6389]

They'll need to change the 10k rank title from God/Goddess of WvW to God/Goddess of Tome Clicking....

[Ronin.4501]

I think Anet should just give everyone rank 10k and all legendary items as well as a new title "I Winned the Game" when they first log in. Problem solved.

Why doesn't anyone want to work towards anything anymore, rather than just asking to have everything handed to them immediately with minimal effort?

Oh, btw, assuming you primarily play the WvW gamemode, this probably means you're not the richest of players in the game. You COULD turn those Tomes of Knowledge into easy gold, which is probably a lot more worthwhile than turning them into useless ranks.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

The game is a decade old, maybe don't worry about the exclusivity of prestige titles most players leveled by stacking boosters in Edge of the Mists WXP and karma trains to begin with? Whatever benefits newer players is whats more important for the long-term survival of the game mode.

 

So the best interest for new players is to speed run through as many WvW ranks as possible, ideally making use of years worth of tomes acquired via PvE? Which "new" players are we talking about exactly?

 

The game is a decade old and this game mode is still alive and kicking, more or less. Not sure such shortsighted "balance" decisions will make it last another decade though.

[Loke.1429]

5 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

While I surely would use my 1000+ useless Tomes of Knowledge for this purpose, I also think it gives an unfair advantage towards players who leveled to 10K the hard way.

Who cares about historic achievements, every game makes changes like this and how difficult it was before can never be an argument against a (good) change. It's like the standard anti-change argument that never makes sense. Actually I think this argument comes from the fact that they dont make new 20k achievements with titles to work against, so the ones with the title need others to not have it to feel special. I personally don't care about the ingame achievements so I am guessing here, I only care about things like world first and K/D, and win ratio in groups.

I like this idea, because the tomes are very useless currently

Edited March 11, 2023 by Loke.1429

[Dawdler.8521]

Technically the tomes do have a use. 80 tomes is converted to an easy 2 BL keys every week (more keys if you work for it).

Now, the problem is of course when you have 4000+ tomes and just stack them up every week and get those stupid leveling scrolls which make you use less tomes sigh.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

do it

[SGao.4982]

15 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

If there is no advantage (of whatever nature), then there is also no reason to skip ahead now is there?

The reason isn't to skip ahead, like I said in my post, its to create another usage for Tome's of Knowledge, which you get an abundance of in WvW. I wouldn't mind if they turned the Tome of Knowledge into a Tome of WvW for the WvW Rewards and I had to start from nothing. Right now I just get more than I could ever use per week.

 

 

13 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

I think Anet should just give everyone rank 10k and all legendary items as well as a new title "I Winned the Game" when they first log in. Problem solved.

Why doesn't anyone want to work towards anything anymore, rather than just asking to have everything handed to them immediately with minimal effort?

Oh, btw, assuming you primarily play the WvW gamemode, this probably means you're not the richest of players in the game. You COULD turn those Tomes of Knowledge into easy gold, which is probably a lot more worthwhile than turning them into useless ranks.

What are you talking about getting everything handed to them? You get an abundance of these Tome's by playing WvW. The 2 ways you get them in WvW is from Dungeon reward tracks & Chest of the Mists. My suggestion was to take the items you get from playing WvW and put them back into your WvW rank. No handouts, just playing the game..

 

& while I do primarily play WvW, Any downtime I have, I use it to work getting Gift of Exploration's to sell & TP flip so I'm pretty much good on gold.

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

21 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

The reason isn't to skip ahead, like I said in my post, its to create another usage for Tome's of Knowledge, which you get an abundance of in WvW. I wouldn't mind if they turned the Tome of Knowledge into a Tome of WvW for the WvW Rewards and I had to start from nothing. Right now I just get more than I could ever use per week.

Which changes nothing about what I said. You are asking for another way to speed up the WvW rank acquisition process.

The fact you are not making use of the resources you are rewarded has little to do with this. Many players do not. That doesn't automatically mean there is an issue with the item provided but rather with the players willingness to make use of them. Tomes of Knowlege and the spirit shards they provide is one of the most strait forward resources to convert into gold or materials.

The tomes where added to WvW and Spvp to allow players to reach the level cap via WvW (and provide them a method to acquire Spirit Shards). If the intent was for them to get used as an additional WxP source, they would be WvW exclusive and far more restriced in the other 2 modes. So again, besides wanting to jump ahead in multiple thousand WvW ranks, if there is no associated benefits as you claim, why introduce this?

Edited March 12, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[SGao.4982]

 

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The fact you are not making use of the resources you are rewarded has little to do with this. Many players do not

I think this is the part I may be failing to get across xD

So from playing WvW, I am getting more Tome's of Knowledge than I can actually put to use. I am using the resources they are giving me to the best that I can but to me they have little use.

 

& To continue with your post, there are plenty of ways to get spirit shards too. If I converted all my tome's to spirit shards, I'd just be creating another post in general discussion asking for more uses for spirit shards xD but right now I don't need any more spirit shards. I have a lot of them.

 

11 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The tomes where added to WvW and Spvp to allow players to reach the level cap via WvW. If the intent was for them to get used as an additional WxP source, they would be WvW exclusive and far more restriced in the other 2 modes

I'm not saying to get rid of the benefit of gaining a level. They could have it so if you are under level 80, it goes towards leveling up and then after level 80 it goes towards your WvW Rank.

 

11 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

So again, besides wanting to jump ahead in multiple thousand WvW ranks, if there is no associated benefits s you claim, why introduce this?

& Once again, a reason to introduce this would be to give another usage to Tome's of Knowledge. If there was a benefit there would be a lot more people in EOTM and a lot less in the core WvW maps

[Cyninja.2954]

7 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

 

I think this is the part I may be failing to get across xD

So from playing WvW, I am getting more Tome's of Knowledge than I can actually put to use. I am using the resources they are giving me to the best that I can but to me they have little use.

 

& To continue with your post, there are plenty of ways to get spirit shards too. If I converted all my tome's to spirit shards, I'd just be creating another post in general discussion asking for more uses for spirit shards xD but right now I don't need any more spirit shards. I have a lot of them.

 

I'm not saying to get rid of the benefit of gaining a level. They could have it so if you are under level 80, it goes towards leveling up and then after level 80 it goes towards your WvW Rank.

 

& Once again, a reason to introduce this would be to give another usage to Tome's of Knowledge. If there was a benefit there would be a lot more people in EOTM and a lot less in the core WvW maps

Again, Tomes of Knowledge where not designed to give WxP. They are a source for levels and spirit shards and while it could have been an interesting feature or design decision to make players choose if they want the WxP or resource, the implementation we have now is NOT done that way.

Stop looking at this as "oh, this makes my number go up if I use it. Why doesn't it make this other number I want go up too?" (it actually does, just not the number you want). ToK add 2 things: PvE levels OR spirit shards. That's what they are designed for. That's how they are implemented into the reward structures of each mode. Changing this retroactively would cause a lot of issues, amplified by the fact that these can be stacked (and have been stacked by veteran players), while providing near no benefit to each mode.

That is before getting into all the issue this would cause between game modes. If ToK give WvW ranks, why not Spvp ranks too? Let's have every player gain access to every single cosmetic item which is currently semi locked behind certain content be available on the spot.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[SGao.4982]

38 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Again, Tomes of Knowledge where not designed to give WxP. They are a source for levels and spirit shards and while it could have been an interesting feature or design decision to make players choose if they want the WxP or resource, the implementation we have now is NOT done that way.

Plenty of items in the game where implemented and later on had their usage expanded. This isn't something new.

 

38 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Stop looking at this as "oh, this makes my number go up if I use it. Why doesn't it make this other number I want go up too?" (it actually does, just not the number you want). ToK add 2 things: PvE levels OR spirit shards. That's what they are designed for. That's how they are implemented into the reward structures of each mode. Changing this retroactively would cause a lot of issues, amplified by the fact that these can be stacked (and have been stacked by veteran players), while providing near no benefit to each mode.

I don't know why on earth you are making these strawman arguments xD

Not I nor anyone else in this thread has made the argument of it "oh, this makes my number go up if I use it. Why doesn't it make this other number I want go up too"

Once again, for the 4th time, WvW players get an abundance of Tome's of Knowledge from playing WvW. You get them frequently from Dungeon reward tracks and Chests of the Mists, both of which you get from playing the game.  My suggestion is to give them the additional feature of increasing your WvW rank if used while in WvW. People who want spirit shards can still use them for that.

 

38 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

That is before getting into all the issue this would cause between game modes. If ToK give WvW ranks, why not Spvp ranks too? Let's have every player gain access to every single cosmetic item which is currently semi locked behind certain content be available on the spot.

This is only about it's usage in WvW. I don't play SPvP so I can't comment on it being used in SPvP.

I'm not aware of any cosmetics that are locked behind WvW Rank other than the Mistforged Triumphant Hero's armor which you need Rank 500 and like I said previously with the ability unlocks that require 1226, It's very low rank to attain. Since its all the same after 1226, it could be the threshold before they can be used on WvW Ranks. & Again, lest we forget, It's to give another avenue for Tome of Knowledge usage.

 

I'm more than happy to continue to reply, However we seem to be going around in circles and I keep repeating points I made earlier.

Edited March 12, 2023 by SGao.4982

[Cyninja.2954]

14 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

Plenty of items in the game where implemented and later on had their usage expanded. This isn't something new.

Name 1 which is in the same situation as Tomes of Knowledge.

14 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

I don't know why on earth you are making these strawman arguments xD

Not I nor anyone else in this thread has made the argument of it "oh, this makes my number go up if I use it. Why doesn't it make this other number I want go up too"

Once again, for the 4th time, WvW players get an abundance of Tome's of Knowledge from playing WvW. You get them frequently from Dungeon reward tracks and Chests of the Mists, both of which you get from playing the game.  My suggestion is to give them the additional feature of increasing your WvW rank if used while in WvW. People who want spirit shards can still use them for that.

I'm making this argument because that's the limit to your observation of this item and its implementation. You lack the deeper consideration of how reward structures work or are designed or are willfully ignorant of them because you can't see past the short term goal you have in your sight.

Why not make WvW ranks purchasable with gold? It is acquired via WvW. Many players have an abundance of it with little need to use it. The same arguments you use to argue for the changes to ToK apply to gold as well, or other materials. In case of ToK it's even just a matter of a few mouse clicks, given how they can get converted to gold.

14 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

This is only about it's usage in WvW. I don't play SPvP so I can't comment on it being used in SPvP.

The high end version of the Spvp armor is locked behind rank 100. That's a few weeks of constant Spvp, or just a few clicks on ToK.

14 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

I'm not aware of any cosmetics that are locked behind WvW Rank other than the Mistforged Triumphant Hero's armor which you need Rank 500 and like I said previously with the ability unlocks that require 1226, It's very low rank to attain. Since its all the same after 1226, it could be the threshold before they can be used on WvW Ranks. & Again, lest we forget, It's to give another avenue for Tome of Knowledge usage.

True, WvW for now (and likely the future given the developers limited foresight) does not have prestige items beyond rank 500 (which btw was rank 2k originally and the change was a net negative to the mode, but that is beside the point).

14 minutes ago, SGao.4982 said:

 

I'm more than happy to continue to reply, However we seem to be going around in circles and I keep repeating points I made earlier.

True. Repeating your points though without actually taking into account what was said hardly makes them any better or stronger. Again, the reward structures do not intend for ToK to give WxP. I doubt that will change in the future.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Maltyrius.2961]

17 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

 

Well, the advantage of skipping many levels. Rank 10K comes with a prestige title. I guess that someone who leveled it the hard way won't be very happy if their hard work gets devalued by other players using stacks of tomes to achieve the same.

Maybe doing it the hard way still retains the old title; doing it with any shards is ‘Demigod of WVW.” 

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Does not have to be the full road from rank 1 to rank 10,000. What was the cap to unlock all abilities?

18 hours ago, SGao.4982 said:

Players have all WXP Upgrades / Abilities unlocked by the time they reach 1226, which is a relatively low rank to attain. 

Make the cap right there. Allow people to use tomes until they have rank 1226. Every level beyond can only be acquired via traditional leveling. If you are dedicated to the game mode, you can get rank 10,000. In addition, I would reward those who have already reached 10,000 with the option to use tomes of knowledge for WvW again. So they can decide on their own if they want to make spirit-shards or gain WvW rank-loot.

Alternatively, they can add another vendor that exchanges Tomes of Knowledge for  Box of WvW Supplies. With a daily/weekly cap of course. That way you could also limit the 'abuse' and add RNG to the system, which makes it a gamble.

Edited March 12, 2023 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[Ryuk.6840]

29 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

Does not have to be the full road from rank 1 to rank 10,000. What was the cap to unlock all abilities?

Make the cap right there. Allow people to use tomes until they have rank 1226. Every level beyond can only be acquired via traditional leveling. If you are dedicated to the game mode, you can get rank 10,000. In addition, I would reward those who have already reached 10,000 with the option to use tomes of knowledge for WvW again. So they can decide on their own if they want to make spirit-shards or gain WvW rank-loot.

Also there could be a new track achiv that invalidates the 10k rank Title (if you spent one tome) and you are eligible for a new that cost 10k normal rank + 3k tomes (13k lvl max)

 

Edit:Or doing the "heavy weekly objectives" (capturing towers , not camps) , allows you to spent some tomes on yourself.

Edit2: Or playing after you have completed your weeklies , open  some "spaces" for tomes to be used (randomly "locked stones-boxes" could drop , that need tome to be unlocked and offer either lvl ,, tickets or gold)

Edited March 12, 2023 by Ryuk.6840

[Jobber.6348]

Tome clicking to get enough points to max out all mastery tracks ✔️

Tome clicking to get 10k Rank? ❌