CC CC CC Stunbreak+Stability CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC CC ... Dead

[Sparetent.9756]

The amount of CC (Crowd Control Effects) in this game mode is stupid!

 

A long while ago you developers nerfed "Stability". You changed it from a single stack with long duration, to short duration with "stacks". When you made this change, it immediately ruined the gameplay and forced us to rely on healers and boon givers and boon strippers even more than before! Reverting this mistake is one solution to my complaint.

 

Furthermore, you gave every man and his dog endless CC abilities. But you didn't increase the amount of stability or defenses against CC. Unless of course you count the need to have a minimum of 100 Firebrands spamming stability on me so I'm not pulled around like a gorram rag doll!! (An exaggeration of course, but not by much)

 

SOLUTION: I rarely offer a viable solution, I just complain, so pay attention please! The solution is so simple, add diminishing returns! That means, if you CC me for the first time, it has the full effect of the ability you used on me. If another CC is used on me (from you or any other player) within a short duration, the effect of that CC is reduced by 50%. And if a third CC is used on me withing a short duration, the effect is reduced by 75%. Again, if you spam CC on me within a short duration, and I've already been hit 3 times, the effects are reduced by 100%!!! Simple. 

[TheIceman.1039]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loaf_of_Saffron_Bread. Maybe helps abit

[Zyreva.1078]

46 minutes ago, Sparetent.9756 said:

But you didn't increase the amount of stability or defenses against CC.

There are more stab sources and short cd stun breaks in the game than ever. And cc has mostly been nerfed (dmg removal, target caps on wall skills).

If you get cc spammed - just eat it,  cc doesn't deal dmg any way ...

One very common mistake players make is to waste stun breaks for no reason.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[zengara.8301]

That is what kind of bothers me about the whole "remove boons" thing. Fact is DH got babygates, which is 5 cc field that core guardians in the start of the game only had 1 of each with hammer (5 times as many), and it was way slower. Same with Chrono double grave well. the strips the dmg etc etc. It is like people ultra fixated on boons, but forgets that gear stats, runes (dura etc) sigils and classes have completely changed, speed etc.

The way people look at this entire thing, is like looking at a squad, and only understanding the role of a FB, not knowing cleanse, strips dmg, cc etc It is way too zoomed in, and does not solve the "issue" that people want more of a core experience

 

If people want a "core week" that is fine, but they would have to completely change entire classes, before "removing boons" would makes sense, otherwise it would turn even more to a blob fiesta. Bigger blob wins, simply because there is less buttons to victory, or cloud fiesta. Since guilds have less of a chance against winning against blobs, no matter how good they are 1 extra person would suddenly matter a ton more.

[Junkpile.7439]

What kind lf try hard build you play if you can get stability? I never use stability.

[Mikhael.2391]

2 hours ago, Sparetent.9756 said:

 

SOLUTION: I rarely offer a viable solution, I just complain, so pay attention please! The solution is so simple, add diminishing returns! That means, if you CC me for the first time, it has the full effect of the ability you used on me. If another CC is used on me (from you or any other player) within a short duration, the effect of that CC is reduced by 50%. And if a third CC is used on me withing a short duration, the effect is reduced by 75%. Again, if you spam CC on me within a short duration, and I've already been hit 3 times, the effects are reduced by 100%!!! Simple. 

That would be something smart and requested for years now but they won't do it. because anet refuses to do anything that might benefit small-scale fights or solo even god forbid. You ar not alone in this suggestion as better games always had it or cc at least was better controlled.

[Zyreva.1078]

8 minutes ago, Mikhael.2391 said:

That would be something smart

No. Games with diminishing return for cc typically have more powerful cc and less ways to deal with it. In GW2 most cc has a fairly low duration, doesnt stack and there is a multitude of options to break out of cc or prevent it from happening to begin with for every class. No need to reward players for mindlessly facetanking.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

In all seriousness stunbreak and stab are NOT the only counters to CC.

There are:

Evade

Block

Blind

Shadowstep/teleport

Aegis

WASD to move out of range during the cast or LOS

Also if you are in a CC chain, learn the big damage attack's animation and stunbreak before that and dodge.

[Mihile.7609]

Well no one wants to use them, they want 10 FB at all times instead of using their own breaks lol.

[Xenesis.6389]

Won't happen cause they have stability as the cc catch all, and diminishing returns are what stacks are for.

Too bad they designed the game to stack group stability on like two class, and now they're trying half kitten pass it around, but what really needs to happen is everyone has equal access to it. No want likes CC's done on them, that's why guards are meta for 10 years.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[RisenHowl.2419]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

In all seriousness stunbreak and stab are NOT the only counters to CC.

There are:

Evade

Block

Blind

Shadowstep/teleport

Aegis

WASD to move out of range during the cast or LOS

Also if you are in a CC chain, learn the big damage attack's animation and stunbreak before that and dodge.

None of those solutions work on ground targeted wards. Those include sanctuary, baby gates, line of warding, static field, unsteady ground, spectral ring, and guardian hammer 5. Everything but the guard hammer is seeing heavy use in the meta currently 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

None of those solutions work on ground targeted wards. Those include sanctuary, baby gates, line of warding, static field, unsteady ground, spectral ring, and guardian hammer 5. Everything but the guard hammer is seeing heavy use in the meta currently 

Some will, some wont. For some invulnerability will counter them.

[Xenesis.6389]

Funny how we talk about too much CC's, but you walk up to a lord and it dies before it's bar is broken cause everyone suddenly forgot what a CC is. 🤭

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Funny how we talk about too much CC's, but you walk up to a lord and it dies before it's bar is broken cause everyone suddenly forgot what a CC is. 🤭

Ask The Shatterer too about CC.

[Hotride.2187]

According to the title you died on the 20th CC. Seems fine to me if you lived that long despite being CCed for so long. Even sounds like... broken sustain tbh.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Funny how we talk about too much CC's, but you walk up to a lord and it dies before it's bar is broken cause everyone suddenly forgot what a CC is. 🤭

Its like the following situations in PvE:

Mordremoth: CC only on third bite, everyone breaks the bar immediately on first bite.

Soo-Won: CC-dependant encounter, but no one knows what a CC skill is even if they've have EMP.

 

To be fair, the breakbar on lords is probably too high. I rarely see it broken even with several people throwing dedicated CC builds at it. Many breakbars in the game have these scaling issues, too.

Edited March 23, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Dayra.7405]

13 hours ago, Sparetent.9756 said:

The amount of CC (Crowd Control Effects) in this game mode is stupid!

I agree, it turns the game into TV, where you can enjoy watching your dead.

When I stop WvW, CC will be one of the main reasons as it turns smaller groups into the punching balls of larger ones.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Dayra.7405

[blp.3489]

10 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Also if you are in a CC chain, learn the big damage attack's animation and stunbreak before that and dodge.

That's well and good in a duel, in group vs group I don't think it's practical to read the attack animations of a multitude of enemies, especially when they are stacked and you are all but blinded by the special effects bonanza.

Even though the result is the same, dealing with a multitude of people doing damage on you is much easier to accept than being totally incapacitated despite using your stun breaks and cleanses etc. and watching your death as though in third person.  Not every class has access to invulnerability.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

That's well and good in a duel, in group vs group I don't think it's practical to read the attack animations of a multitude of enemies, especially when they are stacked and you are all but blinded by the special effects bonanza.

Even though the result is the same, dealing with a multitude of people doing damage on you is much easier to accept than being totally incapacitated despite using your stun breaks and cleanses etc. and watching your death as though in third person.  Not every class has access to invulnerability.

So why were you not stacked on the tag then to get boons from your subgroup's Firebrand?

[blp.3489]

5 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

So why were you not stacked on the tag then to get boons from your subgroup's Firebrand?

While admitting that my primary problem is L2P, now I've got to also stay on a tag that is deliberately moving around in a seemingly random way intended to fake out the enemy; while watching the attack animation of all the enemy players...

And of course there isn't always a tag, or they haven't arrived yet, or they were killed and are still on their way back, etc. etc., and I rarely get placed in a subgroup with a Firebrand, usually because the squad hasn't been organized into subgroups but probably also because the commanders that are good enough to organize subgroups instinctively recognize that I'm a relative newbie that needs to L2P before I can properly play as a subgroup member.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

24 minutes ago, blp.3489 said:

While admitting that my primary problem is L2P, now I've got to also stay on a tag that is deliberately moving around in a seemingly random way intended to fake out the enemy; while watching the attack animation of all the enemy players...

And of course there isn't always a tag, or they haven't arrived yet, or they were killed and are still on their way back, etc. etc., and I rarely get placed in a subgroup with a Firebrand, usually because the squad hasn't been organized into subgroups but probably also because the commanders that are good enough to organize subgroups instinctively recognize that I'm a relative newbie that needs to L2P before I can properly play as a subgroup member.

My comment was slightly made in jest fwiw, but it does illuminate the matter. This is a mode with Mass numbers are a thing. It doesn't matter if CC is culled down to 1 CC per profession like some people may think is a good idea, because there will still be 50 people carrying around that 1 CC to kill that one guy in particular, 1-2 pulls to yank them to the zerg, a few stuns or knockdowns to keep them in place as the zerg 1 spams them to death. The only way to counter that is to have equal numbers and Stability coverage from the subgroups of the squad.

This is why complaint threads like this make no sense in the end.

But for small scale? That list I gave applies. Stab and stunbreaks are not the only counters to CC. For some all you need to do is WASD out of the way before the hit connects, or to get out of range of the ward before it lands or walk around it after it lands. 

[Chaba.5410]

I'm trying to understand what someone expects to happen when they decide to yolo in to a group of other players. Why should the game cover for that?

[Jski.6180]

Nerfing self stab and "buffing" support stab has a lot to do with the current cc vs stab imbalances. If every one could bring there own stab to help with the over all team stab out put then the cc spam in wvw would not be as bad. But for some reason support stab is given an pass so its kind of pointless to run self stab leading to far more specialized rolls in an group of that stab support.

[subversiontwo.7501]

15 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

In all seriousness stunbreak and stab are NOT the only counters to CC.

Technically, your list isn't true. They're not counters to CC, they are counters to applying CC. They have value, in their own right. However, that is in their own right. That's not me splitting hairs. If you look at applying CC you also need to factor in applying counter-CC.

The same would go for let's say damage. There's a balance between damage and heals (or similar effects). Then there is applying damage and applying heals. Application is important in its own right but it is a separate issue with its own balance. We don't throw the balance, of eg., damage and heals, just because dodges, buffs and debuffs apply there too.

Spoiler

Topic: The easiest way to make stab better is clearly to revert it to its original design, as it is clear as daylight that the original designers of this game had a better clue of how to build it. Lest not forget that we are dealing with Anet: reinventors of wheels and doubling down in cycles. I'd also like to remind people that when a vocal minority here was as most rabid about "boon balls", I pointed out that we (or they) underestimate just how much more CC there is in this game and that a likely result of such changes is that groups (especially smaller groups-) will have trouble closing distance (to use higher risk-reward abilities) and that what people see as "meta" will grow more stale with rising demands; or that stab does very little for your ability to gank and zerg things down, while CC does quite alot.

We lie in the beds we make. Enjoy the pirateshitshow 🙂 .

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by subversiontwo.7501