Between harbinger, Virtuoso and Willbender....this game balance is behind awful...it's a joke

[Bookah pls.9352]

This thread is hilarious considering it's created by someone who kept arguing that ele was fine after the scepter buffs.

Icing on the cake is the hyperbole about certain skills then actually linking the skill on the wiki that disproves his own hyperbole.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 4/1/2023 at 11:59 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Never forget...

Anet buffed deathly chill on the reaper through the roof.

It singlehandedly brought about the condi meta of WvW. 

People complained about it for 8 or so months. Anet did nothing. 

Then PoF released. Everyone abandon the deathly chill meta because the scourge was much better with all it's pre-nerf barrier generation and pumping out a metric ton of AoE. 

1-2 weeks later... Deathly chill was nerfed.

Which is why I've not bought EoD TO THIS DAY.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 4/1/2023 at 2:40 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

I won't deny that they did an awful job with Harbinger's elixirs.

Honesty is always welcome

The same things said by literally the best necro player...when he was still playing

[Dadnir.5038]

3 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Honesty is always welcome

It's not difficult to be honest when it come to harbinger's elixirs. They've been bloated with effects in a mad attemps to provide the necromancer with boons to share and some kind of interaction with an e-spec mechanism that just feel hollow.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

5 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Which is why I've not bought EoD TO THIS DAY.

Not to worry.  They'll nerf the EoD monsters down just before the next expansion.

[andrewlcl.8176]

31 minutes ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Not to worry.  They'll nerf the EoD monsters down just before the next expansion.

Also, #powercreep. 

[JTGuevara.9018]

47 minutes ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Not to worry.  They'll nerf the EoD monsters down just before the next expansion.

Oh of course they will! Then people will line up to buy the 4th expansion, willfully forgetting about the first three!

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I still see the most soulbeasts roaming. 

[senftube.6081]

They should simply start to nerf that yoloholohahahaha set named celestial. But that won't happen because cmc doesn't play his own game and think it is nice to have a cheating set in the game.

 

 

[Caid.4932]

Its funny how many of the threads in this forum could be covered by 'wvw isn't balanced around 1v1 or small scale'.

They could fix harbinger, virtuoso and willbender and celestial stats and they'll still be hundreds of changes short of anything vaguely balanced.

I'd get it more if spvp wasn't a thing but it is and 90% of the problems that people have issues with in wvw have a solution there.

[Zyreva.1078]

30 minutes ago, Caid.4932 said:

Its funny how many of the threads in this forum could be covered by 'wvw isn't balanced around 1v1 or small scale'.

Let's not pretend large scale is actually balanced ...

And it doesn't make sense to only balance arround zerging, because neither is zerging feasible at all times - numbers simply aren't there 24/7 - nor is it preferred by everyone. Also the combat system wasn't really designed for that sort of gameplay, even if the current devs might pretend otherwise.

30 minutes ago, Caid.4932 said:

I'd get it more if spvp wasn't a thing but it is and 90% of the problems that people have issues with in wvw have a solution there.

No.

1. Small scale wvw and sPvP are quite different from each other and 2. balance in spvp might be different but not neccessarily better.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Xenesis.6389]

17 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Not to worry.  They'll nerf the EoD monsters down just before the next expansion.

Good and bad news with that though..... The new expansion format might only have pve content, so maybe no more elite specs for new monster specs, but that would also mean they don't need to sell that expansion to wvw, soooooo no point in toning down the current monsters before next expansion, but in fact buff them more to keep eod sales going... 😏

Edited April 4, 2023 by Xenesis.6389

[Hotride.2187]

14 hours ago, Caid.4932 said:

Its funny how many of the threads in this forum could be covered by 'wvw isn't balanced around 1v1 or small scale'.

They could fix harbinger, virtuoso and willbender and celestial stats and they'll still be hundreds of changes short of anything vaguely balanced.

I'd get it more if spvp wasn't a thing but it is and 90% of the problems that people have issues with in wvw have a solution there.

So if its not balanced for small scale, what is the problem with just deleting cele or nerfing it? Its not used in large scale, there still will be balancing problems in small scale (in wvw overall but that is a different topic). Nothing has changed for players who go "wvw is not balanced around small scale", so what is your problem with a change like this?

You also got the players who go "its more efficient to min-max stat gear and not use cele", so see? No problem there either. You could even remove it from pve, according to those players.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[solemn.9670]

NOOOOOOOO, you can't just say that other classes are OP! Catalyst is the ONLY broken class/build in the entire game and if we don't maintain this narrative I will be forced to admit to myself that I'm just slug trash at playing ele and it bothers me that other players can do it better than me !!!

Nooooo, catalyst is the ONLY overpowered spec in WvW !!! 

[solemn.9670]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:45 PM, Bookah pls.9352 said:

This thread is hilarious considering it's created by someone who kept arguing that ele was fine after the scepter buffs.

Icing on the cake is the hyperbole about certain skills then actually linking the skill on the wiki that disproves his own hyperbole.

Just dodged dragons tooth 3x in a row bc it's one of the easiest skills in the game to dodge, proceeded to win the duel core DD ele vs scepter cata. Therefore scepter is overpowered and so is cata and player skill has no relation to it whatsoever.

/s

Edited April 6, 2023 by solemn.9670

[Henrik.7560]

Celestial has been the dominant roaming meta ever since expertise and concentration were added. You can put it on any class and it will do decently. Too much in the kit, like 30% more stats than any other stat set. Every build has access to boon and condition spam which synergizes perfectly with celestial stats.

 

Harb, Willbender, Virtuoso and catalyst utilize cele probably the most from this because they all have insane might gen and defense boon spam; and a lot of power and condition damage, so they can utilize every single stat really well.

Harb - permanent pulsing quickness fury and protection (not sure why this still hasn't been nerfed lol), machine gun auto attack that does high power dmg and torment every hit. healing from blight stacks that scales well. Goes perfect for cele!

Virt - boons every time they evade or block an attack (lol), bladesongs do good power dmg and can be traited to apply torment, whilst the class is literally immortal with distort F4, F5 block, distort on signets, distort utility skill that stocks blades, signet that refreshes all F12345 for more distorts, oh yeah and grants distort because its a signet, stunbreak signet that stealths them, (and distort), blink, sword 2, yeah ok very nice balance here xd.

Willbender - Very high power dmg and benefits alot from the condi/expertise for its passive burn spam + cripple/blinds/immobs duration, and the tankiness allows it to run glassy traitlines to do more damage. Despite that it generates a ton of boons and keeps up high might stacks, and of course concentration really improves its sustain since it has access to prot/stab/resistsance etc.

Catalyst - Scepter is pretty nutty, the nerfs were good but its still very strong. Can run dps traits because it has double focus earth 4 and 5 to survive thanks to the elite skill, short cooldown block, huge resistance uptime on the sphere, perma 25 might, fury, prot, swifntess etc. Does a lot of power and burning/bleed dmg so its perfect for cele.

 

Personally I think it will be a lot better if they cut the expertise and concentration on cele, it was already very strong before those were added. Then they can address some of the broken builds, like willbender with its 50 teleports and harbingers stupid quickness uptime and blight healing and of course virtuoso's distort spam.

[enkidu.5937]

Somehow, these builds seem to promote socializing. Usually, I get ganked challenged by a duo of those builds 😏

I guess, those premium players with unmatched skill just want to share their many kills with someone, very social 🤡

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, enkidu.5937 said:

Somehow, these builds seem to promote socializing. Usually, I get ganked challenged by a duo of those builds 😏

I guess, those premium players with unmatched skill just want to share their many kills with someone, very social 🤡

Ah yes, people like to play for the win in a game where winning doesn't matter. Fun times.

[kooldude.7260]

The pay to win balancing was glaring ever since HoT, but this time it's more obvious than ever that they want new/returning players to be able to buy the expansion, use their level 80 booster and instantly have the best builds in the game. It's why Celestial was buffed and continues to be OP (it's the stats you get from 80 booster), it's why the new specs are always OP on expansion release for 1-2 years.

A good game doesn't need these kinds of tactics to make money, but this is not a good game anymore.

Edited April 8, 2023 by kooldude.7260

[ills.1875]

Celestial does truly feel like what's done the most harm to roaming.

Compare the total stat count of a celestial piece to a berserker piece - going off of memory, a ring to a ring was something like 1.73:1. Celestial is the closest thing that GW2 has to gear creep, so opting to not use it is actually selecting a weaker gearset in a world where every single class has a build that works well with it. I'd love to see the stats dropped in WvW to something closer to 1.3:1, and then to go from there; I imagine it would help bring about more build diversity that way.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

20 hours ago, Henrik.7560 said:

Celestial has been the dominant roaming meta ever since expertise and concentration were added. You can put it on any class and it will do decently. Too much in the kit, like 30% more stats than any other stat set. Every build has access to boon and condition spam which synergizes perfectly with celestial stats.

 

Harb, Willbender, Virtuoso and catalyst utilize cele probably the most from this because they all have insane might gen and defense boon spam; and a lot of power and condition damage, so they can utilize every single stat really well.

Harb - permanent pulsing quickness fury and protection (not sure why this still hasn't been nerfed lol), machine gun auto attack that does high power dmg and torment every hit. healing from blight stacks that scales well. Goes perfect for cele!

Virt - boons every time they evade or block an attack (lol), bladesongs do good power dmg and can be traited to apply torment, whilst the class is literally immortal with distort F4, F5 block, distort on signets, distort utility skill that stocks blades, signet that refreshes all F12345 for more distorts, oh yeah and grants distort because its a signet, stunbreak signet that stealths them, (and distort), blink, sword 2, yeah ok very nice balance here xd.

Willbender - Very high power dmg and benefits alot from the condi/expertise for its passive burn spam + cripple/blinds/immobs duration, and the tankiness allows it to run glassy traitlines to do more damage. Despite that it generates a ton of boons and keeps up high might stacks, and of course concentration really improves its sustain since it has access to prot/stab/resistsance etc.

Catalyst - Scepter is pretty nutty, the nerfs were good but its still very strong. Can run dps traits because it has double focus earth 4 and 5 to survive thanks to the elite skill, short cooldown block, huge resistance uptime on the sphere, perma 25 might, fury, prot, swifntess etc. Does a lot of power and burning/bleed dmg so its perfect for cele.

 

Personally I think it will be a lot better if they cut the expertise and concentration on cele, it was already very strong before those were added. Then they can address some of the broken builds, like willbender with its 50 teleports and harbingers stupid quickness uptime and blight healing and of course virtuoso's distort spam.

Nice summary of all the reasons I hate encountering these builds as a non-celestial solo roamer. If nerfing celestial would bring them down to Earth, I'm all for it.

[Caid.4932]

On 4/4/2023 at 6:04 PM, Zyreva.1078 said:

Let's not pretend large scale is actually balanced ...

And it doesn't make sense to only balance arround zerging, because neither is zerging feasible at all times - numbers simply aren't there 24/7 - nor is it preferred by everyone. Also the combat system wasn't really designed for that sort of gameplay, even if the current devs might pretend otherwise.

No.

1. Small scale wvw and sPvP are quite different from each other and 2. balance in spvp might be different but not neccessarily better.

But they clearly are balancing around zerging. You might agree or disagree with that but its not particularly relevant. You could make an argument that it should be balanced differently but saying x is overpowered in a piece of content they've made no attempt at any point to balance isn't going to go anywhere.

Balance in spvp is better. Much, much better. It wasn't necessarily going to work out that way but it has.

On 4/5/2023 at 8:25 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

So if its not balanced for small scale, what is the problem with just deleting cele or nerfing it? Its not used in large scale, there still will be balancing problems in small scale (in wvw overall but that is a different topic). Nothing has changed for players who go "wvw is not balanced around small scale", so what is your problem with a change like this?

You also got the players who go "its more efficient to min-max stat gear and not use cele", so see? No problem there either. You could even remove it from pve, according to those players.

I dont particularly have an issue with that. If i was attempting to fix small scale wvw its a good start. I think it'd be much easier, faster and more effective to just copy and paste spvp gearing and so on across though.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Caid.4932

[Caid.4932]

Maybe they could or should chop a piece of the borderlands out and have balance and gear work differently there.

Like in the bloodlust ruins area in the middle of the maps and southern dueling spot you're swapped to a spvp build and they can incentivise and drive roaming players to these areas.

Maybe throw a wall around the middle of the map so players cant get too cheesy with hanging on the border of these spots. They're pretty big areas and have a lot of potentially interesting architecture. You've got capture points to punish players resetting fights / using perma stealth / chaining distortion or other immunities excessively. You can drop keep buffs and other stat buffs out of the area. Can drop warclaw and experiment to find a better balance without worrying about the wider zerg game.

That would be the kind of baseline reset i think small scale needs to have something to build on.

[Xenesis.6389]

12 minutes ago, Caid.4932 said:

Maybe they could or should chop a piece of the borderlands out and have balance and gear work differently there.

Like in the bloodlust ruins area in the middle of the maps and southern dueling spot you're swapped to a spvp build and they can incentivise and drive roaming players to these areas.

Maybe throw a wall around the middle of the map so players cant get too cheesy with hanging on the border of these spots. They're pretty big areas and have a lot of potentially interesting architecture. You've got capture points to punish players resetting fights / using perma stealth / chaining distortion or other immunities excessively. You can drop keep buffs and other stat buffs out of the area. Can drop warclaw and experiment to find a better balance without worrying about the wider zerg game.

That would be the kind of baseline reset i think small scale needs to have something to build on.

We can't even get them to fix exploiting into objectives by simply covering a gate area properly, you think they're gonna go make a separate walled area in the middle of the map?

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

Some balancing with Willbender wouldn't go amiss. It is over-performing for sure.