Specialization: Should Druid be a DPS?

[apharma.3741]

8 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I guess i am not sure where tanks fall into that view (scrapper seems more like an tank class then an true support). I also dont see the rev support class in your list.

If druid gets more dmg with its staff i think that is not good for balancing but its "aggsive version" gliphs for sure has room to do dmg.

That's because rev is a kitten mess with no true direction, it took them how many years to fix the traits so they at least worked with more than 1 legend. Scrapper has wells to protect, cleanse and heal allies and then 2 that are more aggressive in some ways, it's one of those bruisers where it supports allies as much as it can do damage but even they tend to have duality. It shouldn't be good DPS (but for PvE you can easily up the damage via skills splits) or high damage but instead outlast opponents in PvP/WvW.
 

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The majority of players play open world almost exclusively. This would pretty much delete all these specialisations for them.

Whether you're a good healer or dps depends on your gear, not the icon over your head. There is nothing wrong with a so-called support specialisation also offering a decent boondps build as well.

Short of soloing bounties and champions this is a cop out excuse. Most content in open world can be done very easily by taking DPS core traits and gear with your support elite spec and as soon as another 2 people are there a support exclusive build would be fine. Additionally ANet added build templates which would allow them to switch to a super easy to play optimised open world build for those encounters they just can't solo on their super special unique square peg build.

The bar for being able to clear content, even organised instanced content, isn't very high. Most of the time if people can't do the content it's down to paying no attention and auto attacking, randomly pressing another skill that has no reason to be used at that moment before auto attacking again. In fact most people I come across in open world I would struggle to differentiate between a bot, no scrap that, bots follow some form of reasoning.

[Ashen.2907]

23 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Every class should be able to provide a versatile suite of builds for the various game modes and content in the game. Since some measure of DPS and sustain are crucial for solo builds, these mechanics tend to have the most impact for the majority of players. It's rather frustrating to play the druid class in OW now, unless running with a group. DPS is also the most popular group role, so that should be an option for every class too. So yes, every class including druid, should be able to provide viable DPS, and from there classes can specialize into other role as fits their theme and playstyle.

The class is Ranger, not Druid, and it already has multiple DPS options.

[Jski.6180]

2 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

That's because rev is a kitten mess with no true direction, it took them how many years to fix the traits so they at least worked with more than 1 legend. Scrapper has wells to protect, cleanse and heal allies and then 2 that are more aggressive in some ways, it's one of those bruisers where it supports allies as much as it can do damage but even they tend to have duality. It shouldn't be good DPS (but for PvE you can easily up the damage via skills splits) or high damage but instead outlast opponents in PvP/WvW.
 

Short of soloing bounties and champions this is a cop out excuse. Most content in open world can be done very easily by taking DPS core traits and gear with your support elite spec and as soon as another 2 people are there a support exclusive build would be fine. Additionally ANet added build templates which would allow them to switch to a super easy to play optimised open world build for those encounters they just can't solo on their super special unique square peg build.

The bar for being able to clear content, even organised instanced content, isn't very high. Most of the time if people can't do the content it's down to paying no attention and auto attacking, randomly pressing another skill that has no reason to be used at that moment before auto attacking again. In fact most people I come across in open world I would struggle to differentiate between a bot, no scrap that, bots follow some form of reasoning.

Rev is the strongest healing support in the game atm.

You maybe mixing up support with tanking scrapper has utility that can support but as an class its more tankly. Druid is the same way to a point but it has an F5 ability to go all in on healing where at best scrapper has an rez skills / dmg skill.

If your class can run zerkers gear (or condi dmg gear) it can do dmg. Its just an issues of how it dose dmg and how it dose support. If the support classes weapon dose more dmg then say an dps weapon then that an issues. If the support utility and F5 skill can do some dmg if build right then that more ok as they are often limented on there ranged and effect and take up serviabitly to do dmg (you can do dmg or support but not both at the same time the old issues with scorges).

[Batalix.2873]

12 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The majority of players play open world almost exclusively. This would pretty much delete all these specialisations for them.

Whether you're a good healer or dps depends on your gear, not the icon over your head. There is nothing wrong with a so-called support specialisation also offering a decent boondps build as well.

 

It doesn't though. Druid can do open world, even as a pure healing espec, because it has Ranger as a base to supplement with. Condi shortbow Druid is very viable.

 

Just because a build can't burst down enemies before they realize you're there doesn't mean it's not viable for open world. And it's very disheartening to see so many players adopt this really narrow philosophy that the game needs to be played that way, and that DPS is the only thing that matters.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[apharma.3741]

22 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Rev is the strongest healing support in the game atm.

You maybe mixing up support with tanking scrapper has utility that can support but as an class its more tankly. Druid is the same way to a point but it has an F5 ability to go all in on healing where at best scrapper has an rez skills / dmg skill.

If your class can run zerkers gear (or condi dmg gear) it can do dmg. Its just an issues of how it dose dmg and how it dose support. If the support classes weapon dose more dmg then say an dps weapon then that an issues. If the support utility and F5 skill can do some dmg if build right then that more ok as they are often limented on there ranged and effect and take up serviabitly to do dmg (you can do dmg or support but not both at the same time the old issues with scorges).

The reason I didn't include rev is because as I said it's a mess, you have vindicator that is simultaneously a nuts healer while also having some utterly insane damage abilities which goes back to the original point of ANet not designing elite specs for specific purposes. Vindicator stands out as being poorly designed because the elite spec is "What if we gave legend swap to rev". Which I trust I don't have to explain why that is dumb.
My point was specialising elite specs into areas, that doesn't mean you can't do what you want, throwing zerk gear on, picking damage core traits and doing what you want. It means that elite spec specific weapons, traits and utilities should be focused on the specialisation, if it's support they should be support. If it's DPS they should be DPS and personal survival orientated. If it's designed to be in a team fight it should have AoE abilities.
You're an ele main, you ever thought that Aquatic Stance was just plain dumb? Weaver is a selfish spec, it's traits are selfish, it's weapon is mostly selfish, the other stances are also selfish. So why on earth did some person design and balance a heal skill around hitting enemies to provide healing to yourself and allies around the target? It makes very little logical sense. 

[Acyk.9671]

Killing competition before they can market an def + off version of a cosmic  mage or druid.

[Lily.1935]

The fantasy I have for druid just isn't what druid is in GW2. A shapeshifter who uses a lot of nature magic like growing vines, summoning storms, summoning dozens of beasts and healing allies. Currently, ranger and druid doesn't quite fit that, it fits some of that but not quite to the extent I'd like.

I don't personally want druid to be a DPS especially since I don't think it would hit on any more of the notes I'd really be interested in. In my opinion a DPS druid would be fairly shallow in its design. you'd have to completely redesign the function of the Celestial avatar kit and I don't think it would be all that interesting of a change.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

9 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Only thing they need to do to turn it into a DPS is to remove the CD on Ancient Seeds.

 

Maybe PvE, I'd love to see the sPvP / WvW forums if Ancient Seeds had no ICD 😂.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Maybe PvE, I'd love to see the sPvP / WvW forums if Ancient Seeds had no ICD 😂.

Oh the PvP forums would explode. The WvW forums would just blame it on Celestial stats, they love using Cele as a scapegoat.

[draxynnic.3719]

17 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

It doesn't though. Druid can do open world, even as a pure healing espec, because it has Ranger as a base to supplement with. Condi shortbow Druid is very viable.

 

Just because a build can't burst down enemies before they realize you're there doesn't mean it's not viable for open world. And it's very disheartening to see so many players adopt this really narrow philosophy that the game needs to be played that way, and that DPS is the only thing that matters.

People are going to gravitate to what's actually suitable for the content they're playing. The 'burst down in seconds' strawman really only applies to the weakest enemies in any of the expansion content - vets and elites can get healthbars big enough that they start getting annoying if they're taking two or three times longer to kill even if you're in DPS gear as apharma suggests.

I also really don't see what you're gaining here. This isn't FF14. Role is mostly determined by gear. If you're not in healing gear, you're not healing enough to fulfill that role, except maybe to take a little pressure off the actual healers in a crisis. If you're in healer gear, you're not doing much damage.

What does it hurt if druids, firebrands, scrappers, mechanists, tempests, heralds, renegades, and spectres have decent boondps builds as well as healing builds? I really don't see what you're getting out of forcing every elite specialisation capable of healing into a narrow box where healing is the only role it's able to fill. Apart from deleting it from open world, that is. Unless, I guess, apharma is going to argue that it's perfectly viable as long as you only want to play it when you have two or more other players to healbot for.

Sheesh, even GW1 monks had smiting builds.

[The Boz.2038]

17 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Druid can do open world, even as a pure healing espec, because it has Ranger as a base to supplement with. Condi shortbow Druid is very viable.

Condi druid is core-level DPS traits with a core-level weapon, and zero interaction with anything that made the professions good in the past decade (namely, e-specs). It can "do open world", just like how a Pinto can do 24h Le Mans: It will be slow, painful, risky, and you are constantly reminded that maybe bringing something else would be a good idea.

[apharma.3741]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

People are going to gravitate to what's actually suitable for the content they're playing. The 'burst down in seconds' strawman really only applies to the weakest enemies in any of the expansion content - vets and elites can get healthbars big enough that they start getting annoying if they're taking two or three times longer to kill even if you're in DPS gear as apharma suggests.

I also really don't see what you're gaining here. This isn't FF14. Role is mostly determined by gear. If you're not in healing gear, you're not healing enough to fulfill that role, except maybe to take a little pressure off the actual healers in a crisis. If you're in healer gear, you're not doing much damage.

What does it hurt if druids, firebrands, scrappers, mechanists, tempests, heralds, renegades, and spectres have decent boondps builds as well as healing builds? I really don't see what you're getting out of forcing every elite specialisation capable of healing into a narrow box where healing is the only role it's able to fill. Apart from deleting it from open world, that is. Unless, I guess, apharma is going to argue that it's perfectly viable as long as you only want to play it when you have two or more other players to healbot for.

Sheesh, even GW1 monks had smiting builds.

If you played smite builds in GW1 it was for damage and you wouldn't spec into healing prayers, to do so would be very sub-optimal, just like if you wanted to play dps you wouldn't spec into druid.
Square pegs, round holes. 
That doesn't mean you can't mix and match and make something in zerk (celestial might be better) and power traits and play druid just that if you were after damage untamed, soulbeast and possibly core only would be better.
This is fine, you don't want to homogenise all elite specs, choice and trade offs is what makes games interesting. Some of the arguments though remind me of the early days of GW2 where you would get "water eles" who refused to go out of water attunement and begged ANet for weapon swap.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

On 5/10/2023 at 9:54 AM, Ashen.2907 said:

The class is Ranger, not Druid, and it already has multiple DPS options.

GW2 professions, like Ranger, are more akin to starting classes from other RPGs. The elite specs often change the playstyle and mechanics like the advanced or endgame classes of other RPGs. 

[Batalix.2873]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

People are going to gravitate to what's actually suitable for the content they're playing. The 'burst down in seconds' strawman really only applies to the weakest enemies in any of the expansion content - vets and elites can get healthbars big enough that they start getting annoying if they're taking two or three times longer to kill even if you're in DPS gear as apharma suggests.

 

 

Not everyone is impatient, and yes core damage is still fully capable of killing vets and elites. In some ways a healer espec with core damage is better for some players because it has survivability and doesn't threaten to force warp and travel.

 

The point is that if healer (or tank, or mezzer) design space is relegated to supplemental support and healer gear, it becomes an afterthought rather than a core gameplay mechanic. The game bends itself more and more to player meta and cares more exclusively and singularly about DPS. And I'm not the only person I've seen commenting that they actually don't enjoy GW2 much because of how real support classes don't actually exist. The "play any way you want" mentality has horseshoed all the way around to "as long as it's DPS" and actually excludes potential players.

 

Every *profession* already has plenty of DPS options. I frankly think it is boring and unimaginative that we have three specializations and that all are "DPS plus", when the entire design space of espec swapping to suit actually specialized niches is largely unexplored.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Ashen.2907]

11 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

GW2 professions, like Ranger, are more akin to starting classes from other RPGs. The elite specs often change the playstyle and mechanics like the advanced or endgame classes of other RPGs. 

Exactly why an elite spec should not be designed so that the change to playstyle it was created to promote is dilluted.  Making druid a dps option completely contradicts its reason for being created and your description as well.

[Burnfall.9573]

3 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

Not everyone is impatient, and yes core damage is still fully capable of killing vets and elites. In some ways a healer espec with core damage is better for some players because it has survivability and doesn't threaten to force warp and travel.

 

The point is that if healer (or tank, or mezzer) design space is relegated to supplemental support and healer gear, it becomes an afterthought rather than a core gameplay mechanic. The game bends itself more and more to player meta and cares more exclusively and singularly about DPS. And I'm not the only person I've seen commenting that they actually don't enjoy GW2 much because of how real support classes don't actually exist. The "play any way you want" mentality has horseshoed all the way around to "as long as it's DPS" and actually excludes potential players.

 

Every *profession* already has plenty of DPS options. I frankly think it is boring and unimaginative that we have three specializations and that all are "DPS plus", when the entire design space of espec swapping to suit actually specialized niches is largely unexplored.

 

"BE WHO YOU WANT TO BE", 

       "....express yourself...."

 

"Deception may give us what we want for the present, but it will take it all away in the end"

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Exactly why an elite spec should not be designed so that the change to playstyle it was created to promote is dilluted.  Making druid a dps option completely contradicts its reason for being created and your description as well.

At this point I guess it's just a matter of opinion, but I hard disagree. Many elite specs are far enough apart in concept, that they often create entirely different characters. Hence why they feel like different classes altogether.

For example, my firebrand is more of a bookish divine caster that uses tomes and lore and spells to smite enemies and support her allies. Firebrand is a great example of an elite spec because it allows you to fulfill those roles while staying in theme. I can't even imagine her picking up bow skills or martial arts. Way too much paladin for her. I have another guardian who is my paladin, and I'm happy I don't have to play him every time I want to lay down some holy fire. I like the play style of firebrand a whole lot more. 

Playing a druid in open world sucks, because you can't kill anything in a decent amount of time. It needs more DPS.. A druid that can't bring the wrath of nature down is only half a druid. 

Most elite specs are a bit closer to firebrand, able to do DPS and a few other things pretty well depending on build. Druid is an outlier in the wrong direction. 

[Flapjackson.1596]

To everyone advocating for more space for Druid solo DPS in open world, I think that is fine. The argument to be had is regarding instanced PvE content. This isn’t just a personal bias, it’s because Anet’s PvE balance is focused around instanced content where performance in the various metrics of dps, healing, etc are higher. 
 

When Anet says they want to enable DPS Druid, that is coming from a team focused on instanced content performance. The trickle-down benefits to Open World just sort of happen. I would be perfectly happy if they targeted Druid DPS buffs towards Open World performance, because that doesn’t sound like it requires such extreme changes. My concern is their current attitude will lead to changes that could warp the cohesive support kit Druid offers into something more bland and grey for the sake of performance.
 

When I look at generic “all-encompassing” designs Anet does like the Harbinger or Vindicator traitlines, I feel that the spec becomes worse for it.

[The Boz.2038]

4 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

The argument to be had is regarding instanced PvE content.

Don't think anyone wanted a "top ten DPS performer" out of druid.

4 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

When I look at generic “all-encompassing” designs Anet does like the Harbinger or Vindicator traitlines, I feel that the spec becomes worse for it.

Mechanist and Scrapper say hi. Ditto Tempest. Also, Firebrand. Oh, and Chrono, too! Etc.

[Xenesis.6389]

Not unless it's filling the dps role apart from it's support role, not both at the same time, this should apply for any elite spec on any profession, the dps/support roles should be kept separate as much as possible. We already have these hybrid crossovers on the wvw side which make them "annoying", to put that nicely, to face. Rangers also already have 3 other main dps specs, including core for any account type, so does druid need to be a dps spec? not really..

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

If you played smite builds in GW1 it was for damage and you wouldn't spec into healing prayers, to do so would be very sub-optimal, just like if you wanted to play dps you wouldn't spec into druid.

No, you'd spec into divine favour and run Smiter's Boon. 😈 But hey, full smiting builds also existed.

I think the thing you two are missing - apart from the whole 'there are a lot of MMOs that already do what you want, you're welcome to play one of those like FF14 rather than warping ours' thing - is that in GW2, the elite specialisations may be based off the core profession, but they each have distinct themes.

Herald has a dragon knight theme, which until less than a year ago was pretty much purely a DPS role that splashed a few boons. I don't want to see that being destroyed just because heal herald is actually viable now.

Firebrand in a DPS setup is a holy warrior type who can lay out holy fire in an area. That's distinct from both DH and WB. I don't want to see that destroyed just because HB exists. Plus, if you get what you want, what's going to happen to Tome of Justice? Deleted? Or just effectively deleted since a support build would never spend pages on it?

I could go through every other build you're implicitly placing on the chopping block, but let's skip to the subject at hand:

Druid has a nature magic theme calling on the magic of the cosmos and the natural world. That's distinct from soulbeast and untamed. It'd be nice to be able to play it outside of being a healbot.

At which point I'm sure Batalix will jump in with a 'but you can, you're just being impatient!' The first part is right. The game won't immediately kick you for playing it in open world. But since there was a period where druid was the only ranger elite spec, everyone who was playing ranger back then knows what it felt like. And The Boz has it right:

17 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It will be slow, painful, risky, and you are constantly reminded that maybe bringing something else would be a good idea.

The support builds will still be there. I'm pretty sure there are traits that just aren't getting used, and half the glyphs aren't getting used either to make room for spirits.

I really don't see what you're gaining apart from imposing your will on people who might have chosen this game in part explicitly BECAUSE it doesn't squeeze everything into your narrow little boxes.

Edited May 12, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Gaiawolf.8261]

48 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think the thing you two are missing - apart from the whole 'there are a lot of MMOs that already do what you want, you're welcome to play one of those like FF14 rather than warping ours' thing - is that in GW2, the elite specialisations may be based off the core profession, but they each have distinct themes.

Thank you!

Theme and concept are too often neglected in class balancing theory, but that's not how GW2 is supposed to work. Elite specs also change the class mechanics in addition to theme, offering a new playstyle like a completely different class that should have its own diversity. Guild Wars 2 is not like other games that force you into a narrow role depending on your class or concept choice.

Quote

To folks who prefer to define by the holy trinity, Gw2 doesn't force you to pick one of the three from heal, tank, or DPS and only do that - it blends a mix depending on your build and allows you to actively swap roles or soft play between roles. Our goal was to remove the forced singular role per you're locked into, people often mistake this as saying gw2 has no trinity elements, that isn't true - we just don't believe in a forced role per for Gw2 for the reasons I covered in the live stream.

- Colin Johanson

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[draxynnic.3719]

On further reflection, one more rebuttal on the 'healing is good in solo open world because it keeps you alive' argument:

That can apply when fighting a small number of powerful enemies, especially if it's just one. However, that's the sort of thing that Lord Hizen and some other open world buildcrafters specialise in, and I've never seen druid recommended by any of those outside of a "well, if you insist, here's the least bad build" context.

When you have a credible threat coming from being overwhelmed by numbers, however, generally the best thing you can do to improve your survivability is to reduce the incoming damage by thinning out the enemies. I'm not saying you should always go full glass, but having 25% more healing is still going backwards if you're receiving 50% more damage because more of the enemy are still alive and trying to kill you. And in the case of the druid which does build for damage - again, The Boz's comment is a good one. You'd be better off taking a third core traitline - druid doesn't really offer anything to that at present beside a bit of CC. CA charges slowly if you're not healing allies, and when you do pop it, with no healing power the healing over time is so anaemic that if you need it in the first place, it's probably not going to keep up anyway.

If you're on your own in open world, you want to be able to do decent damage. If you have a friend, you're better off if you're both doing decent damage. If there's three of you... well, outside of meta events, there's not a lot in open world that three people are likely to have trouble with if they cooperate and res each other, so you're probably still better off not bothering with a dedicated healer. And for meta events, that only gets amplified. Most of the things that'll kill you in those you can't heal through anyway.

[apharma.3741]

13 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

No, you'd spec into divine favour and run Smiter's Boon. 😈 But hey, full smiting builds also existed.

I think the thing you two are missing - apart from the whole 'there are a lot of MMOs that already do what you want, you're welcome to play one of those like FF14 rather than warping ours' thing - is that in GW2, the elite specialisations may be based off the core profession, but they each have distinct themes.

Herald has a dragon knight theme, which until less than a year ago was pretty much purely a DPS role that splashed a few boons. I don't want to see that being destroyed just because heal herald is actually viable now.

Firebrand in a DPS setup is a holy warrior type who can lay out holy fire in an area. That's distinct from both DH and WB. I don't want to see that destroyed just because HB exists. Plus, if you get what you want, what's going to happen to Tome of Justice? Deleted? Or just effectively deleted since a support build would never spend pages on it?

I could go through every other build you're implicitly placing on the chopping block, but let's skip to the subject at hand:

Druid has a nature magic theme calling on the magic of the cosmos and the natural world. That's distinct from soulbeast and untamed. It'd be nice to be able to play it outside of being a healbot.

At which point I'm sure Batalix will jump in with a 'but you can, you're just being impatient!' The first part is right. The game won't immediately kick you for playing it in open world. But since there was a period where druid was the only ranger elite spec, everyone who was playing ranger back then knows what it felt like. And The Boz has it right:

The support builds will still be there. I'm pretty sure there are traits that just aren't getting used, and half the glyphs aren't getting used either to make room for spirits.

I really don't see what you're gaining apart from imposing your will on people who might have chosen this game in part explicitly BECAUSE it doesn't squeeze everything into your narrow little boxes.

What are you blathering on about?
I'm not saying to make GW2 like every other MMO, I'm saying that the optimal way to use an elite spec trait line is to use it for what it's specialised in. Example being druid, druid is a SUPPORT trait line and that's what it's focus should be. There is NOTHING stopping you from running DPS gear and other DPS trait lines, mixing and matching it to your own fantasy class you're making up. The only thing I want to see is the elite spec trait lines FOCUSED on their specific area of expertise....like some kind of elite....specialisation. You know what specialisation means right?
What it does mean is that there shouldn't be DPS or damage focused traits in druid, it's elite specialisation weapon should not be doing large amounts of damage, it's specific skills should not be doing a lot of damage and instead all be focused on support. Whether that be boon support, healing, debuffing is up to ANet but it shouldn't have damage modifiers.

The only people imposing their will on others are those that have been trying to warp clearly support focused specialisations and traits into damage specs. You want to play a special nature magic cosmos channeling warrior then I think you should be playing D&D instead of forcing the game to change to whatever fanfic class you're imagining.

[draxynnic.3719]

Except that the specs that you want to turn into support specs have clearly been designed to be able to work with offensive builds as well. 3/4 tempest overloads are damage-oriented. Firebrand has Tome of Justice and a couple of offensive mantras. Herald and scrapper were never really viable as support specs until they received quickness relatively recently, so they've spent most of their existence as DPS specs that had a support option added on long after the fact. So yeah, you're definitely the one who's trying to impose your will onto the game by trying to force these specs into your narrow little box.

They're primarily intended to offer new ways to play. They're a 'specialisation' in that they specialise on a focused aspect of the core profession, not because they specialise into a specific role. This often makes them better at some roles, but they're not locked into them.

Druid is the odd one out here. The traitline is nearly all support, the CA mechanic is basically useless if you're playing solo and/or have low healing power. This has probably contributed to it being a generally unpopular spec, which makes it harder to get into for the content where it IS useful because people who aren't playing it in open world aren't getting the opportunity to learn how it all works. All of the other... they're not support specs, they're specs with competitive support builds available... can be realistically played and practiced in the open world.

ArenaNet saying they're looking at giving it an opportunity to do more damage indicates that they've recognised this. In the meantime, your proposal of 'just load DPS and play it anyway'... been there, done that in HoT where it was the only ranger elite available and where for every other profession the elite spec was clearly the best option. And the experience was... where was that line again...

On 5/11/2023 at 7:23 PM, The Boz.2038 said:

 slow, painful, risky, and you are constantly reminded that maybe bringing something else would be a good idea.

This ain't FF14, or whatever other 'your theme determines your role' MMO you may be comparing to. This is GW2, where one of the pillars is 'bring the player, not the profession'.

Edited May 13, 2023 by draxynnic.3719