June 27th Overview (PvP PoV)

[Vinny.7260]

Core

 

• Illusionary Membrane: Reduced incoming damage reduction from 10% to 5% in PvP only. | Nerfing the possible return of Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono.
• Chaotic Persistence: Reduced concentration and expertise from 250 to 150 in PvP only. | Nerfing the possible return of Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono.
• Illusionary Defense: Reduced damage reduction per stack from 2% to 1.5% in PvP only. | Aimed at, presumably, Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono... But a wiff? Could've focused Method of Madness instead.
• Auspicious Anguish: This trait now has an internal cooldown when you become disabled. There is no internal cooldown when you gain distortion. | Fairly significant change aimed at culling being rewarded eating CCs.
• Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced vigor duration from 8 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only. | Again, focused on Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono. Mostly Chaos Mirage.
• Escape Artist: This trait has been reworked. It now applies distortion to phantasms when they are summoned. | The return of Phantasmal Defense but in Illusions? Competing with Phantasmal Haste? I don't know if that'll work out. Maybe for Power Chrono to ensure they land their Phantasms more often... I can see this working out decently for Power Chrono specifically.

Chronomancer

• Stretched Time: This trait has been reworked. Flow of Time affects nearby allies. Grant alacrity to nearby allies when you summon a phantasm. | Rest in peace Bunker Chrono using wells. Perhaps Persistence of Memory might be a good choice now to give Phantasms Alacrity and bounce it back to yourself? Bunker Chrono might still be possible but changed fundamentally. Might be using Inspiration again instead of Chaos.
• Seize the Moment: This trait no longer causes Tides of Time to grant quickness and instead grants quickness to nearby allies when you summon a phantasm. | Net buff to Power Chrono with more integrated Quickness access, possibly with the intention of being equipped alongside Escape Artist. Also removes the awkwardness of forcing Shield for maximum potency. Can possibly take Pistol again.
• Well of Action: The final pulse of this skill now grants alacrity instead of superspeed. | Cool to bring back some Alacrity to a Well, but doesn't warrant Bunker Chrono sticking to Wells.

So far, buff to Power Chrono via ensuring phantasms can secure their hits (Phantasmal Berserker), and opening the option of using Pistol offhand again; gives allies more Quickness via Phantasms. Bunker Chrono might be playing entirely different now that they're not locked into Wells? Persistence of Memory instead of Shatter Storm to compound Alacrity gain from Flow of Time being AoE and giving Phantasms Alacrity to other Phantasms on Phantasm summon. Possibly Phantasm Chrono could be on the menu again?

Mirage

• Mirage can no longer dodge while immobilized or under the effects of crowd control. | This allows CCs to be more effective to a spec that already has the ability to do burst damage while dodging.
• Mirage Cloak: This trait no longer reduces the mirage's endurance in PvP and WvW. | Finally the "Bring Back Second Dodge" forum post to fizzle out!
• Chaos Vortex: Reduced clone bleeding and torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds. | Shocked this wasn't touched sooner. Keeping Chaos Mirage in check.
• Imaginary Axes: Reduced clone torment duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW. | Touching on the idea of Infinite Horizons coming back.
• Split Surge: Reduced might stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only. | Arguably should've touched the scaling instead of the Might stacks. But I can see the reason.
• Elusive Mind: This trait now removes conditions when gaining Mirage Cloak instead of when dodging. Reduced the number of conditions removed from 2 to 1 in PvP and WvW. | This is HUGE. This is now giving the trait synergy with Desert Distortion, giving Mirage more cleanse across the board. Although the trait may not be strong enough to consider taking anymore compared to Infinite Horizons.

Chaos Mirage got buffed overall, Ineptitude Mirage might be possible again, Carrion Axe might be falling off. Power Mirage might be back on the menu with the ability to use Infinite Horizons again without sacrificing a lot of sustain. ... Why didn't they touch the problematic Ambush? Mirage Thrust has be notoriously causing trouble in every meta where its aggression was superior to Chaos Mirage's defenses. They should've done something to Infinite Horizons.

Overall: Chaos Mirage, Power Mirage, and Ineptitude Mirage might be back. Carrion Axe might be taking a nap.

Virtuoso

• Bladeturn Requiem: This skill no longer blocks incoming attacks. | No damage buff or CD reduction to compensate? Weird. Maybe they had more changes in the works but couldn't get them settled out in time.
• Bladecall: If the original target of the skill is in range, the returning blades will now lock on to that enemy. If not, the blades will return to the player as normal. | Buffing Dagger to track is going to feel nice, especially with the other changes listed below.
• Unstable Bladestorm: This skill is now a ground-targeted spell instead of a projectile. The spell strikes enemies in range in addition to firing projectiles at nearby enemies. | Another Buff to reward being in team fights? Possibly combos well with Focus pull?
• Twin Blade Restoration: This skill will now always cleanse conditions when healing. The first blade will now always grant aegis, and the second blade will always grant vigor. | Should've been like this in the first place.
• Psychic Force: Reduced cooldown to 25 seconds in all game modes. | Lowering the CD of an awkward stun break, might need more buffs to even consider still.
• Blade Renewal: Reduced channel duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. | Less down time, more action and more open frames.
• Jagged Mind: Increased bleeding duration from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. | Dagger changes + this might make this more appealing, Bloodsong might be a cool choice now.
• Psychic Riposte: This trait will now always grant one blade and the unblockable effect when dodging. Reduced the number of blades granted when evading or blocking an attack from 3 to 2. | Still a really good trait, assuming the unblockable effect is moved to ONLY after dodging this could nerf the Aegis block -> block attack -> immediately press a bladesong -> get Aegis -> block ... combo.

Virtuoso is probably going to be lackluster until they can roll out the other changes they're probably negotiating in the background. Illusions/Dueling Virtuoso might be a decent option with Dagger/Pistol and Staff (or Scepter/Torch).

 

Overall a good list of changes for Mesmer elite specs. Mirage might be stepping up again and Power Chrono is still kicking. Virtuoso got an attitude adjustment and some buffs.

 

Things to look out for:

• Power Mirage
• Ineptitude Mirage
• Chaos Mirage
• Power Chrono
• Bunker Chrono (different build)
• Bloodsong Virtuoso (glass cannon condi bombing)

[ascii.1369]

Well, given that I just complained in another thread about people being too negative about the upcoming changes, thank you for this balanced analysis.

Still disagree with the Chaos nerfs but hey, can't win them all.

Edited June 15, 2023 by ascii.1369

[Exciton.8942]

Why do you think Carrion axe is taking a hit? It can still take elusive mind with desert distortion for some decent sustain while not sacrificing damage potential. The only thing is it will be more susceptible to CC but maybe one can take signet of midnight instead of illusion.

If anything, I feel the abundance of stability these days is the biggest issue for the interrupt focused build using power block or ineptitude.

[Exciton.8942]

Virtuoso change is mixed bag. Dagger and Psychic Riposte change are really good to potentially enable virtutoso as a zerg dps in WvW.  Bladeturn Requiem change is really bad. I think they should just remove distortion and rebalance from there. Virtuoso doesn't really lack defense. But it doesn't have meaningful offensive options. The dagger and Psychic Riposte change may help. But it needs a bit more than those.

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Chaos Mirage and adjacent builds aren't even near the meta right now and Carrion Axe builds haven't been a thing for god knows how long. In the current meta these changes to Mirage are a gigantic nerf since everyone and everything shits out Stability and stun breaks nowadays like it's nothing, Mantra of Concentration is a waste of a valuable utility slot and, as mentioned before, you don't really get far with Chaos Mirage builds to begin with as it is, never mind after the nerfs.

Edited June 15, 2023 by SevlisBavles.3059

[Roadkizzle.2157]

2 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Core

 

• Illusionary Membrane: Reduced incoming damage reduction from 10% to 5% in PvP only. | Nerfing the possible return of Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono.
• Chaotic Persistence: Reduced concentration and expertise from 250 to 150 in PvP only. | Nerfing the possible return of Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono.
• Illusionary Defense: Reduced damage reduction per stack from 2% to 1.5% in PvP only. | Aimed at, presumably, Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono... But a wiff? Could've focused Method of Madness instead.
• Auspicious Anguish: This trait now has an internal cooldown when you become disabled. There is no internal cooldown when you gain distortion. | Fairly significant change aimed at culling being rewarded eating CCs.
• Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced vigor duration from 8 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only. | Again, focused on Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono. Mostly Chaos Mirage.
• Escape Artist: This trait has been reworked. It now applies distortion to phantasms when they are summoned. | The return of Phantasmal Defense but in Illusions? Competing with Phantasmal Haste? I don't know if that'll work out. Maybe for Power Chrono to ensure they land their Phantasms more often... I can see this working out decently for Power Chrono specifically.

Chronomancer

• Stretched Time: This trait has been reworked. Flow of Time affects nearby allies. Grant alacrity to nearby allies when you summon a phantasm. | Rest in peace Bunker Chrono using wells. Perhaps Persistence of Memory might be a good choice now to give Phantasms Alacrity and bounce it back to yourself? Bunker Chrono might still be possible but changed fundamentally. Might be using Inspiration again instead of Chaos.
• Seize the Moment: This trait no longer causes Tides of Time to grant quickness and instead grants quickness to nearby allies when you summon a phantasm. | Net buff to Power Chrono with more integrated Quickness access, possibly with the intention of being equipped alongside Escape Artist. Also removes the awkwardness of forcing Shield for maximum potency. Can possibly take Pistol again.
• Well of Action: The final pulse of this skill now grants alacrity instead of superspeed. | Cool to bring back some Alacrity to a Well, but doesn't warrant Bunker Chrono sticking to Wells.

So far, buff to Power Chrono via ensuring phantasms can secure their hits (Phantasmal Berserker), and opening the option of using Pistol offhand again; gives allies more Quickness via Phantasms. Bunker Chrono might be playing entirely different now that they're not locked into Wells? Persistence of Memory instead of Shatter Storm to compound Alacrity gain from Flow of Time being AoE and giving Phantasms Alacrity to other Phantasms on Phantasm summon. Possibly Phantasm Chrono could be on the menu again?

Mirage

• Mirage can no longer dodge while immobilized or under the effects of crowd control. | This allows CCs to be more effective to a spec that already has the ability to do burst damage while dodging.
• Mirage Cloak: This trait no longer reduces the mirage's endurance in PvP and WvW. | Finally the "Bring Back Second Dodge" forum post to fizzle out!
• Chaos Vortex: Reduced clone bleeding and torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds. | Shocked this wasn't touched sooner. Keeping Chaos Mirage in check.
• Imaginary Axes: Reduced clone torment duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW. | Touching on the idea of Infinite Horizons coming back.
• Split Surge: Reduced might stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only. | Arguably should've touched the scaling instead of the Might stacks. But I can see the reason.
• Elusive Mind: This trait now removes conditions when gaining Mirage Cloak instead of when dodging. Reduced the number of conditions removed from 2 to 1 in PvP and WvW. | This is HUGE. This is now giving the trait synergy with Desert Distortion, giving Mirage more cleanse across the board. Although the trait may not be strong enough to consider taking anymore compared to Infinite Horizons.

Chaos Mirage got buffed overall, Ineptitude Mirage might be possible again, Carrion Axe might be falling off. Power Mirage might be back on the menu with the ability to use Infinite Horizons again without sacrificing a lot of sustain. ... Why didn't they touch the problematic Ambush? Mirage Thrust has be notoriously causing trouble in every meta where its aggression was superior to Chaos Mirage's defenses. They should've done something to Infinite Horizons.

Overall: Chaos Mirage, Power Mirage, and Ineptitude Mirage might be back. Carrion Axe might be taking a nap.

Virtuoso

• Bladeturn Requiem: This skill no longer blocks incoming attacks. | No damage buff or CD reduction to compensate? Weird. Maybe they had more changes in the works but couldn't get them settled out in time.
• Bladecall: If the original target of the skill is in range, the returning blades will now lock on to that enemy. If not, the blades will return to the player as normal. | Buffing Dagger to track is going to feel nice, especially with the other changes listed below.
• Unstable Bladestorm: This skill is now a ground-targeted spell instead of a projectile. The spell strikes enemies in range in addition to firing projectiles at nearby enemies. | Another Buff to reward being in team fights? Possibly combos well with Focus pull?
• Twin Blade Restoration: This skill will now always cleanse conditions when healing. The first blade will now always grant aegis, and the second blade will always grant vigor. | Should've been like this in the first place.
• Psychic Force: Reduced cooldown to 25 seconds in all game modes. | Lowering the CD of an awkward stun break, might need more buffs to even consider still.
• Blade Renewal: Reduced channel duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. | Less down time, more action and more open frames.
• Jagged Mind: Increased bleeding duration from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. | Dagger changes + this might make this more appealing, Bloodsong might be a cool choice now.
• Psychic Riposte: This trait will now always grant one blade and the unblockable effect when dodging. Reduced the number of blades granted when evading or blocking an attack from 3 to 2. | Still a really good trait, assuming the unblockable effect is moved to ONLY after dodging this could nerf the Aegis block -> block attack -> immediately press a bladesong -> get Aegis -> block ... combo.

Virtuoso is probably going to be lackluster until they can roll out the other changes they're probably negotiating in the background. Illusions/Dueling Virtuoso might be a decent option with Dagger/Pistol and Staff (or Scepter/Torch).

 

Overall a good list of changes for Mesmer elite specs. Mirage might be stepping up again and Power Chrono is still kicking. Virtuoso got an attitude adjustment and some buffs.

 

Things to look out for:

• Power Mirage
• Ineptitude Mirage
• Chaos Mirage
• Power Chrono
• Bunker Chrono (different build)
• Bloodsong Virtuoso (glass cannon condi bombing)

How can you say that Chaos Mirage got buffed overall when in your breakdown you don't mention a single thing that got buffed. Every single thing you state is a nerf until you do the summary when you say it was buffed.

[Waffles.5632]

I can't believe people are forgetting that on PoF launch and after chaos mirage with staff applied BURNING.

Mirage already got many nerfs BEFORE the final nerf with one dodge, and Anet has never once rescinded those nerfs, and now Mirage is getting NERFED even more to "compensate" for now having THE SAME AMOUNT OF DODGES AS EVERYONE ELSE.

 

The selective memory is real here. Either that or people just forget too easily.

 

ALSO giving up infinite horizon is such a disadvantage. IDC how many condi cleanses the new trait offers, it's still far inferior to infinite horizon, which literally makes it so your clones can survive in PvP AND plays a major part in the mirage fantasy of blending in with your clones and setting up ambushes.

 

FINALLY. Power Mirage was never dead. It's just I was the only one brave enough to play it these past ~4 years.

 

And then here is my 100th ranked match from way back when since I just know someone will comment with "but highlights don't mean anything"

 

The point being, the whole terror of Mirage having a second dodge was vastly overblown, and the one dodge nerf was ALWAYS a janky band-aid fix that never solved the ACTUAL PROBLEM ,and somewhere along the way people just bandwagoned onto "mirage can't have second dodge kuz it's too OP"

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Roadkizzle.2157]

As someone else pointed out. They didn't increase the Endurance regeneration of the Mirage. So adding one more Dodge isn't actually speeding up the rate of dodges... It's just letting you Dodge a single extra time without having to wait for the bar to refill.

 

It's really more of a quality of life change not something that would have made it more powerful.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Roadkizzle.2157

[Leonidrex.5649]

I dont see how condi mirage can be viable.
They pre-nerfed every single thing that had any chance whatsoever make cmirage usable let alone good.
Cmirage will be trolling, Pmirage will be 4fun build rated 5/10 for ranked. Mesmer back to unusability.
No follow-up changes that will make mirage viable in any way, shape or form.
This is my prediction. Im sorry but getting dodge back and 15 different nerfs alongside of it wont make a bad spec suddenly better.

[semak.7481]

Is this some kind of Anet false positivity agent? 

Seeing 10 nerfs and then calls it a buff in the end. If that would be me saying, I would question my sanity

[AshkyLicious.4729]

Umm... I dont know in which parallel universe OP lives in, cuz most of us dont see any buffs at all, especially when it comes to PvP mode for Mirage. 

I havent PvP:ed that much myself with my Mirage (I mainly WvW and PvE), but even I see that these nerfs in PvP are too much, especially for an eSpec that's already been butchered before. Even the devs themselves said outloud "We know that this nerfs might be too much, we will adjust them as needed with time". Your buff logics doesnt make sense to me 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 16, 2023 by AshkyLicious.4729

[Waffles.5632]

On 6/16/2023 at 1:29 AM, semak.7481 said:

Is this some kind of Anet false positivity agent? 

Seeing 10 nerfs and then calls it a buff in the end. If that would be me saying, I would question my sanity

^^^^ Semak and I have disagreed on so much over the past years, but this is 100% agreement right now. These changes are straight nerfs and no amount of copium changes that. Like many have predicted, including myself, we got our "second dodge" at the cost of literally everything else so effectively nothing has changed. Meanwhile ele gets straight buffs and reworks. 🙄🙄🙄

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Roadkizzle.2157]

@Vinny.7260 I'm confused about what you mean by Bunker Chrono will do well without using the Wells.

Almost every class has bunker builds. Which every one is about area denial. They all seem to use the long lasting ground targeted abilities like Wells or Traps to keep an area difficult to fight in.

So what will a Bunker build be like for Chrono now that you say it won't be using Wells?

 

Are you just trying to say that they'll just be spamming more Block skills to be difficult to kill without doing any damage themselves? Or is there some other build I haven't heard of?

 

I really didn't like the Phantasm spam and gimmicky feeling of how many times can I reset my cooldowns. But the new patch seems to be working hard to make that the only play style for Chrono by making every one of the GM traits based on Phantasm generation alone.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

When mesmer nerfs are not on every trait and skill it is now considered a mesmer buff, so yeah huge buff we got!

[Veprovina.4876]

On 6/15/2023 at 9:08 PM, Vinny.7260 said:

Nerfing the possible return of Chaos Mirage and Bunker Chrono.

You said yourself we're getting nerfs because of some hypothetical future "problem" that might never happen, while everyone else, gets adjusted (badly) based on what they can do now. So we're not even allowed a chance to become decent, let alone a problem, they're intentionally keeping us down, and you pointed that out.

 

And then you said "chaos mirage got buffs" like, what in the copium is that logic? 🙄

[ventress.4879]

Pretty well rounded break down. 

Most people on this forum won't listen sadly they are stuck in there own world where Mesmer is the only class in the game.

The biggest complaint about Mirage is that it always felt like two different classes between PvE and PvP. Now players can finally dip into PvP and not change how they play. 

 

On a more positive note seems like every class got some nerfs this patch so some stuff is probably fair in relation to other class nerfs. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by ventress.4879

[ventress.4879]

20 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

You said yourself we're getting nerfs because of some hypothetical future "problem" that might never happen, while everyone else, gets adjusted (badly) based on what they can do now. So we're not even allowed a chance to become decent, let alone a problem, they're intentionally keeping us down, and you pointed that out.

 

And then you said "chaos mirage got buffs" like, what in the copium is that logic? 🙄

Lol, why don't you play another game/class. Waffles tells me that Elementalist is open if you want the OP experience. 

[Geronmy.3298]

This has to be the biggest bait piece yet. How can you name 10 nerfs and follow that up with ''we got buffed overall''.

I have to give you credits, this post almost seems legit.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

2 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

Pretty well rounded break down. 

Most people on this forum won't listen sadly they are stuck in there own world where Mesmer is the only class in the game.

The biggest complaint about Mirage is that it always felt like two different classes between PvE and PvP. Now players can finally dip into PvP and not change how they play. 

 

On a more positive note seems like every class got some nerfs this patch so some stuff is probably fair in relation to other class nerfs. 

How was that a good breakdown? They listed 15 nerfs to parts critical to condi Mirage. But then in summary they say it's buffed.

The Mirage was annoying to play against I understand that.

But I really don't think it was winning tournaments or over performing.

The patch is nerfing the Mirage all over the place. With overlapping nerfs.

The changes to the defenses are one thing but destroying its damage capability after already killing it's Alac generation is way too much.

 

So now it can't reliably provide Alacrity. It can't heal, and now it won't be able to do damage either.

 

Plus they have now destroyed virtually EVERY traitline the Mesmers have.

Chaos was rendered utterly useless now. Inspiration was already useless. 

[Veprovina.4876]

2 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

Lol, why don't you play another game/class. Waffles tells me that Elementalist is open if you want the OP experience. 

Why don't you learn to bait better, then i might bite.

This just looks like you're a sad person that has nothing in their life so they have to bring others down and it's really cringe.

Get help.

 

Anet has created such a toxic attitude towards Mesmers with the constant justifications of bringing us down that the entire community - every time mesmer gets a nerf - with a million nerfs before - comes to gloat and attack people.

 

Go to any other class forums - normal conversations.

Mesmer forums - kitten circus of people that don't play Mesmers getting a rise out of bullying us.

 

[phokus.8934]

2 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Why don't you learn to bait better, then i might bite.

This just looks like you're a sad person that has nothing in their life so they have to bring others down and it's really cringe.

Get help.

 

Anet has created such a toxic attitude towards Mesmers with the constant justifications of bringing us down that the entire community - every time mesmer gets a nerf - with a million nerfs before - comes to gloat and attack people.

 

Go to any other class forums - normal conversations.

Mesmer forums - kitten circus of people that don't play Mesmers getting a rise out of bullying us.

 

You're talking to that one person Mel or something who is a notorious forum troll.  He just made a new account.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 minute ago, phokus.8934 said:

You're talking to that one person Mel or something who is a notorious forum troll.  He just made a new account.

I figured it might be "the ranger". I mean who else would be wasting their life trolling like that...

Was the Mel account banned or something?

[godfat.2604]

They said they were banned, and I guess only temporarily because later on they used the main account to comment for a few times more, and then stopped and turned to this alt account again.

[ventress.4879]

Sigh the only reason I use this account is becouse it's not cursed like the other one which seems to be on a watch lists by the Mods. 

Anyway good luck with shouting on the forums about stuff that will never change. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by ventress.4879

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Calling it now that one shot power virt will be a thing after the patch