Expansion reveal Secrets of the Obscure [Lore Discussion]

[EdwinLi.1284]

For all these years we have always asked what is the secrets of Wizard Tower?

Now we will learn that Secret!
 

 

So what do you think about this upcoming expansion focus on with the lore involving Wizard Tower and things from beyond?

---------------------------------------------------------

Update on more reveals about the Expansion's lore!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/after-the-dragon-cycle/
 

Zojja

Zojja is a character who has been mysteriously AWOL since the events of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, where she endured some pretty awful injuries after being trapped inside of that blighting pod. While I don’t want to spoil her journey, I can say that it was an emotional one. We have years of lost ground to cover, and our favorite golemancer has been doing some serious soul searching. Like the commander will have in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure, Zojja needed a journey of her own.

I’ll keep that story under my hat for now; getting to explore the depths of Zojja’s self-discovery was a delight. In the middle of our fight against the Kryptis, we’re going to have some incredibly tender and vulnerable moments with our asuran ally.

 

The Kryptis

The Kryptis are one of the…meatier enemies we’ve fought to date. Finding a new enemy force that touched on past lore but was also fresh and exciting to long-term players was a significant goal of ours (and a very interesting challenge from a worldbuilding perspective). Creatures of the demon realm; it’s been a hot minute since we’ve faced off against foes from across the Mists. With the exception of a few Kryptis that have wiggled their way through Tyria’s back door in the past, we haven’t spent a lot of time with these guys before. They’re fleshy, they’re horrifying, and they’re eager to take us out. But they’re not necessarily a world-ending threat, per se, as menacing as they are. We just got done with the Elder Dragons, after all.

As you dive into Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure and fight back against the Kryptis, you’ll unravel a much more personal rivalry between some of our key players—one that has lasted for over a millennium. Better yet, after we’ve completed the first leg of the story high above the cloud cover of Tyria, we’re going to continue this journey in a much more…curious environment.

Edited July 25, 2023 by EdwinLi.1284

[SunRoamer.5103]

Personally feeling lukewarm about this for now, at least from a lore perspective. Suddenly being told that, all along, there was this secret society protecting Tyria from Mist demons feels a little jarring, especially with how kittened up things had become on the planet itself (several mist shenanigans included). For now, I also don't like all the names given to the different factions and objects, Kryptis (?) in particular. Not everything needs a specific appellation, and I feel like simply keeping it at Demon (or Mist Demon) would have made for a simple yet stronger term.

A lot of this hinges on how it's actually addressed, presented and delivered in the game, however - we'll find out soon enough.

E: Also not too hot on the Islands being an amalgamation of the lands below, ending up as a helter-skelter  mix of different biomes and architectures of places we've already seen. By its very nature this tends to end up feeling like a theme-park more than an organic world - and I would have loved to go to actual new places.

Edited June 27, 2023 by SunRoamer.5103

[Randulf.7614]

If I'm supposed to accept that Rhialto the Marvellous and CUgel the Clever were protecting us the whole time, I am not reassured (IYKYK)

I'm a bit baffled what they've been protecting us from given the world was basically on the verge of destruction from a greater and more immediate source than demons. I also take SunRoamers point. I hope these maps feel organic. Ramming different biomes together is extremely hard to pull off

 

 

[Randulf.7614]

I guess the main thing that surprised me was the location. I mean I can understand it given the number of players who wanted it, but we've left Cantha behind a bit early and there's still the mystery of the deep sea creature. Both of those seemed more organic to where we would go next.

Maybe later we will go back

[ugrakarma.9416]

would be better if this lore was in janthir islands...

W.T. is just appeal to curiosity.

Edited June 28, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416

[Batalix.2873]

6 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I guess the main thing that surprised me was the location. I mean I can understand it given the number of players who wanted it, but we've left Cantha behind a bit early and there's still the mystery of the deep sea creature. Both of those seemed more organic to where we would go next.

Maybe later we will go back

I'm somewhat hoping that this map is led into by the Tengu. There are a lot in Cantha. The Dominion of Winds is right next to the Wizard's Tower. And I'm sure the Tengu spend plenty of time in these skymaps above Tyria.

[Randulf.7614]

11 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

I'm somewhat hoping that this map is led into by the Tengu. There are a lot in Cantha. The Dominion of Winds is right next to the Wizard's Tower. And I'm sure the Tengu spend plenty of time in these skymaps above Tyria.

An interesting thought, but with two maps and an outpost, I’m not sure where that leaves DoW. If we get DoW and one sky map, that is underwhelming. Not saying the Tengu can’t be involved though, but I’m expecting these maps not to exist - or be revealed as hidden through illusion - until whatever event occurs at the start since we would notice them. Doubt the Tengu would already be in lands above that we can’t see 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[SunRoamer.5103]

6 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

And I'm sure the Tengu spend plenty of time in these skymaps above Tyria.

Why do you think they would spend plenty of time in these "skymaps"? Afaik Tengu can't fly and they don't look like they should be able to, in the first place. I could at most see the Zephyrites or other air ships - especially Aetherblades, since they also travelled through the Mists a lot - to reach there, although I guess it was impossible for them to reach the necessary altitude.

[mandala.8507]

Just pointing out that the Wizard's Tower is mobile, so we don't know where exactly the expansion maps will be located. They could just put them right above the ocean somewhere near kessex, but it seems like the tower has moved to "somewhere else", so...wherever somewhere else is could play a role in the plot of this expac.

Or they could just ignore regular Tyria's surface altogether in the main plot, but I doubt that will happen, judging from the heart of the obscure mastery info we got already.

Luckily, we'll find out in less than 2 months. I'm pretty excited, ngl.

Huge Diablo III vibes aesthetically, which I'm very much a fan of (aesthetically).

[KnightofPhoenix.3679]

I did wish we would get a new flying mount other than the skyscale, but I'm cautiously optimistic either.  With the end of the Dragon Cycle, they have a lot of freedom to take the story in various directions so I look forward to see what they do. 

[Batalix.2873]

5 hours ago, SunRoamer.5103 said:

Why do you think they would spend plenty of time in these "skymaps"? Afaik Tengu can't fly and they don't look like they should be able to, in the first place. I could at most see the Zephyrites or other air ships - especially Aetherblades, since they also travelled through the Mists a lot - to reach there, although I guess it was impossible for them to reach the necessary altitude.

Tengu WITH skyships.

I'm kind of tired of Aetherblades/Zephyrites tbh.

[DemonCrypto.6792]

Anyone think the floting 4 arm dude look like a Seer (the dudes who created the magic human gods "allegedly " used for the creation of the bloodstones)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seer

 

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

Anyone think the floting 4 arm dude look like a Seer (the dudes who created the magic human gods "allegedly " used for the creation of the bloodstones)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seer

 

Looks more like a Djinn to me.

[Kalavier.1097]

On 6/27/2023 at 5:35 PM, SunRoamer.5103 said:

 Suddenly being told that, all along, there was this secret society protecting Tyria from Mist demons feels a little jarring, especially with how kittened up things had become on the planet itself (several mist shenanigans included). For now, I also don't like all the names given to the different factions and objects, Kryptis (?) in particular. Not everything needs a specific appellation, and I feel like simply keeping it at Demon (or Mist Demon) would have made for a simple yet stronger term.

A force focused on keeping outside things out may not shift their strength to within, for fear of their walls breaking.

 

Also, "Demon" or "Mist demon" is a vague, all encompassing term. Their angle appears to clearly be a faction of demons, not just "Random mist demons bumping against the walls of Tyria's reality."

Much like how there are Orcs or Trolls in warcraft, but "The Horde" is a very specific grouping of Orcs and trolls and others. One is a race, the other is a specific faction. 

[Helliwolf the KrimsonKnight.6523]

I am very curious to see how this lore plays out. So far the descriptions do not make a lot of sense. Tyria is described as a planet (though I suppose GW never explicitly states that it is spherical, right?). And the new tower on the sky maps we will visit is "tucked up above the atmosphere" or something like that? So you are saying there is a floating island absolutely brimming with magic in the sky and neither the magic-eating dragons nor the magic-obsessed Asura ever detected this?

[Zok.4956]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:43 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

For all these years we have always asked what is the secrets of Wizard Tower?
Now we will learn that Secret!

The Wizards Tower was only interesting because it was an iconic secret that we didn't know. And that mystery will be gone forever.

Many movies/sequels have shown that mysteries solved and explained do not make things better, but rather less interesting.

I really hope the new maps are really good and fun to play and worth it to devalue that mystery.

[Kalavier.1097]

43 minutes ago, Helliwolf the KrimsonKnight.6523 said:

I am very curious to see how this lore plays out. So far the descriptions do not make a lot of sense. Tyria is described as a planet (though I suppose GW never explicitly states that it is spherical, right?). And the new tower on the sky maps we will visit is "tucked up above the atmosphere" or something like that? So you are saying there is a floating island absolutely brimming with magic in the sky and neither the magic-eating dragons nor the magic-obsessed Asura ever detected this?

Why would the Asura be aiming upward, when they are obsessed with going back underground? If they are in the mists/obscured by the mists, the dragons wouldn't target them. Kralk was noted to be dangerous because he could start going through the mists, attacking other realms.

Tyria is a planet, we have orbs of it in the whispers bases.

[Randulf.7614]

12 hours ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

Anyone think the floting 4 arm dude look like a Seer (the dudes who created the magic human gods "allegedly " used for the creation of the bloodstones)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seer

 

I mentioned it before, but others have pointed out djinn are more likely

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:56 PM, ugrakarma.9416 said:

would be better if this lore was in janthir islands...

W.T. is just appeal to curiosity.

Janthir is also an appeal to curiosity. It's a barren looking island that supposedly was once inhabited by mursaat and/or Seers. Both of which are / should be extinct.

The Wizard's Tower new appearance, as well as the new structures of the expansion, are actually designed matching the description of the mursaat city Saul stumbled upon - made of alabaster marble with golden filigree and towers reaching to the heavens.

Meanwhile the setting is basically Utopia with weaker sounding (imo) names. Kryptis are basically Tanneks. Amnyst is basically Xotecha. Wizard Court is basically the Eagle Guard.

On 6/28/2023 at 7:31 AM, Randulf.7614 said:

An interesting thought, but with two maps and an outpost, I’m not sure where that leaves DoW. If we get DoW and one sky map, that is underwhelming. Not saying the Tengu can’t be involved though, but I’m expecting these maps not to exist - or be revealed as hidden through illusion - until whatever event occurs at the start since we would notice them. Doubt the Tengu would already be in lands above that we can’t see 

We know both of the maps by now - Skywatch Archipelago, Amnytas, and the hub of Wizard's Tower (basically our new EotN/Arborstone).

There's no room for Dominion of Wind until at least Patch 1.

17 hours ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

Anyone think the floting 4 arm dude look like a Seer (the dudes who created the magic human gods "allegedly " used for the creation of the bloodstones)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seer

Seer was the first thing I thought. There are only four four-armed species known in Tyria atm:

1. Seer
2. Forgotten
3. Samarog's species
4. Djinn

This is clearly not a Forgotten or Samarog species, leaving only Seer and Djinn. Djinn look more elemental, and this guy doesn't. The robes also mirror the robes of the GW1 Seer, imo.

My theory is that is Isgarren, and he is a Seer.

But djinn would be the second guess, which isn't improbable. I've seen people suspect that he is Obryn, who was introduced to the lore with April from Garrenhoff last November and is tied to the Mesmer Collective that has a very similar purpose to the Wizard Court.

6 hours ago, Helliwolf the KrimsonKnight.6523 said:

I am very curious to see how this lore plays out. So far the descriptions do not make a lot of sense. Tyria is described as a planet (though I suppose GW never explicitly states that it is spherical, right?). And the new tower on the sky maps we will visit is "tucked up above the atmosphere" or something like that? So you are saying there is a floating island absolutely brimming with magic in the sky and neither the magic-eating dragons nor the magic-obsessed Asura ever detected this?

Floating chunks of land is nothing new - see Goemm's Lab.

Similarly, magic hidden from the Elder Dragons is also not new - see Bloodstones, Forgotten magic, etc.

And if a Seer is involved, there being magic that hides stuff from the Elder Dragons makes sense. Plus, if they can be hidden from Elder Dragons, why not also the asura who never looked deeply into the sky?

[stormemperor.3745]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Anomalous_vision remember this? Good timing to cover up plot hole. Writers don't know it though so kittenized

[bluecheeseplate.2753]

On 6/28/2023 at 5:35 AM, SunRoamer.5103 said:

Personally feeling lukewarm about this for now, at least from a lore perspective. Suddenly being told that, all along, there was this secret society protecting Tyria from Mist demons feels a little jarring, especially with how kittened up things had become on the planet itself (several mist shenanigans included).

Honestly, I could buy it if the Commander was as incredulous as we are. Narratively, there could be some potential for tension between them and the Wizard's Court/Astral Ward despite the necessary alliance.

From the Commander's perspective, this bunch of random, powerful wizards were hoarding magical artifacts and skills that could've been used against the Elder Dragons, possibly saving more lives than were lost. Instead, they've chosen to hole up for literal decades until they needed help.

On the other hand, the Commander could be seen as some shortsighted and even reckless upstart for prematurely kickstarting (and nearly destroying) the Dragon Cycle, resulting in Tyria becoming exposed to even more threats. There's also the fact that they are literal demon bait, what with all that PTSD they're carrying.

I'm just extrapolating baseless theories at this point, but it might be a fun dynamic.

Edited June 30, 2023 by bluecheeseplate.2753

[Luthan.5236]

I just wonder how this is going to explain why those wizard guys ignored all the Elder Dragon's stuff. And to make it somehow realistic - even with Aurene gone (on the bus) - the commander would have to constantly fight stronger enemies. (Though I personally don't like that idea.)

I'm sure they will turn some of those guys into something stronger than dragons and gods ... by revealing stuff that has not been revealed yet. Probably something like ... "super strong", "internal struggle and busy with themselves" ... and now something happened and they needed to reveal themselves. I wonder if we get E involved. Since - afaik - he mainly was tied to Kryta. And the wizard tower thing is in Kryta.

Maybe there is some guy called Erucsbo ("obscure" backwards) among the wizard people. 😄
Since this is it's own expansion (not tied to another expansion like living world stuff) - it can't rely on people having access to maps of other expansions. I'd really love to see some detective work and re-visiting older maps like in season 2. Not only just the new expansion maps + some fast rushed plot. Instead more focus on the plot and storytelling ... but I doubt that will happen.

Will be "big reveal", finding some weapon or something strong. End fight. That's it. Like usual. The gameplay will have to keep us interested. Main reason to play it. And exploring the maps.

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Luthan.5236 said:

I just wonder how this is going to explain why those wizard guys ignored all the Elder Dragon's stuff. And to make it somehow realistic - even with Aurene gone (on the bus) - the commander would have to constantly fight stronger enemies. (Though I personally don't like that idea.)

I'm sure they will turn some of those guys into something stronger than dragons and gods ... by revealing stuff that has not been revealed yet. Probably something like ... "super strong", "internal struggle and busy with themselves" ... and now something happened and they needed to reveal themselves. I wonder if we get E involved. Since - afaik - he mainly was tied to Kryta. And the wizard tower thing is in Kryta.

First part, as I mentioned before if they are focused on keeping organized demonic factions out, they may not look inside their barriers. Or not want to remove any strength and risk the walls all breaking down.

Second part, why? No seriously, why would the commander have to fight constantly increasing enemies? That is literally not how GW2 has been setup.

We don't lul solo gods or dragons, and we've been shown to be highly skilled, experienced, and dangerous, but we aren't one man armies that cannot be touched by hordes of bad guys charging us. This isn't WoW or such.

[deatine.2498]

I don't have many thoughts yet but one:

It is nice that, until now, we didn't know any of this. It can be explained (we'll see if it's explained well) and it makes the world feel bigger again, like we're not the one and only important person/group in the world. Those wizards were actually busy with other stuff.

We've dealt with the elder dragons, that was our path from the very beginning, but that's not the only thing going on in the world. It is only one part, and if we look at the full map of the world, the whole elder dragon arc was actually also just a very localized story. 

[Luthan.5236]

26 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Second part, why? No seriously, why would the commander have to fight constantly increasing enemies? That is literally not how GW2 has been setup.

We don't lul solo gods or dragons, and we've been shown to be highly skilled, experienced, and dangerous, but we aren't one man armies that cannot be touched by hordes of bad guys charging us. This isn't WoW or such.

Afaik it has to do with fans that wanted it like this? At least I heard this was a reason they "wrote out" Trahearne at the end of HoT. To make the commander the most powerful in the pact ... sending him more on those adventures with smaller groups. (Making the pact less relevant.) It is not what I personally like - I dislike it. And I found season 2 to be the strongest in storytelling. (Though a lot of people dislike it cause they find it too slow or they dislike it cause of less content when later seasons brought maps with better farming opportunities.)

Yes of course: The commander did most stuff not solo. But the build-up towards Mordremoth and maybe the stuff in season 3 ... felt best for me. Even in S3 when it was technically preparation for PoF ... it still felt nice - a bit like detective work with the background from the Shining Blade and getting info there.

PoF - while it technically was not the commander itself ... there already happend a lot that I found "too much". Ressurecting stuff. 1 vs 1 against Balthazar of course with Aurne's help and an artifact borrowed from Rytlock. Still ... a bit much. In S4 we went for Joko and Kralk and still were allowed to to the "big" stuff. While the armies were outside. (Meta event in dragonfall depicting this.) The thing against Zhaitan compared to this ... felt much better. You slowly drained him of power sources (killing the other enemies in the missions before that) ... then fighting with your comrades on the ship (no army but a big ship) ... better than you inside showing your powers.

Icebrood they buffed Braham as a champ and Aurene as help was there. With Aurene on "the bus" I can't imagine the commander being that much weaker. We all know there is a bond between her and the champ and in some extreme situation she might just come to help.

I'd prefer if they made something more normal where the commander would investigate (detective's work) ... trying to get help from maybe priorry and others (using the core maps again - in a useful way) ... then developing something with the help of others - and fighting the new enemy ...

Jade Delve chapter already showed that they are not too good at writing such stuff imo. (Personal taste of course.) Just waiting. And some plan appeared + you found some relic Rama used to help. If the others actually did the big stuff - commander more assisting and helping to find the solution ... would be more fun. (Helping the wizards but some wizard guy doing the main work.) But super hero fans from the fanbase want the commander to be super strong. (Others find some solution. You take some weapon ... and go in there and to the work.)