What?

[ReaverKane.7598]

All skyscale, and Runes discussion aside, which, let me tell you holy moly.

But asking us to pay for Living World, and calling it an "expansion"... Now that's a bold marketing strategy.
If not, let us review your release plans:
We get 2 maps and one story episode at release, with more stuff on future episodes. That's a living world season plan.

We get no elite specs. Oh sure you're allowing more weapon flexibility and that's fine, but that in no way replaces new elite specs. No new features, nothing that would be what hallmarks expansions so far.

And you ask pretty much the same price as previous expansions for what's basically a single living world episode worth of content, and a IOU for more stuff?

Hilarious. Good luck with that strategy.

Edited June 27, 2023 by ReaverKane.7598

[Tren.5120]

18 minutes ago, ReaverKane.7598 said:

All skyscale, and Runes discussion aside, which, let me tell you holy moly.

But asking us to pay for Living World, and calling it an "expansion"... Now that's a bold marketing strategy.
If not, let us review your release plans:
We get 2 maps and one story episode at release, with more stuff on future episodes. That's a living world season plan.

We get no elite specs. Oh sure you're allowing more weapon flexibility and that's fine, but that in no way replaces new elite specs. No new features, nothing that would be what hallmarks expansions so far.

And you ask pretty much the same price as previous expansions for what's basically a single living world episode worth of content, and a IOU for more stuff?

Hilarious. Good luck with that strategy.

It's cheap so I pre-ordered, largely because I was going to buy a Character Boost for an alt and the prices were very similar, but I thought the same as you.

It will work, though.  It always works.

The same way people are still buying into Kickstarters from game developers, even after several high profile [effective] scams.

[Danikat.8537]

If you don't think it's worth the price don't buy it. Wait until it's discounted to a price you do think is reasonable, and/or until all the stuff they're promising will come later is actually out and you can see exactly what you get for your money.

[Raknar.4735]

The features Anet communicated seem fine to me for the price

[Randulf.7614]

People will buy it. I know I will. I don't think £20 is unresaonable for 3 maps in an ongoing mmo. We have just been spoiled by a considerable amount of free content.

As I have said before, if the quantity isn't there, they need to deliver on quality. I think they will get a free pass on this one and if they don't deliver the quality this time, that risks a problem next time

I'm not envisioning any significant sales problems here though

[ReaverKane.7598]

4 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

If you don't think it's worth the price don't buy it. Wait until it's discounted to a price you do think is reasonable, and/or until all the stuff they're promising will come later is actually out and you can see exactly what you get for your money.

Nah, i bought the ultimate pack for all the previous expansions, because they had the living world added to it, which made it worth while. Now, yeah, i won't buy it, not just because i don't think its too expensive for the content, but also because i have barely touched the game since the last expansion.
But my issue isn't just the lack of expansion worthy content. Its that we're buying a promise of future content, and there's been several instances of content coming up short, or coming so severely late that's not even funny any more. So depending on how things go, the legendary armor that someone is buying the expansion for, might not even make it ever to the game, or if its like the first ones, will come a year late give or take. I'll just remind you that the rework to WvW worlds into alliances was announced with the release of Path of Fire, and it hasn't come out yet.
So yeah, i'm definetly not paying for stuff i might never get.

[ReaverKane.7598]

3 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

People will buy it. I know I will. I don't think £20 is unresaonable for 3 maps in an ongoing mmo. We have just been spoiled by a considerable amount of free content.

As I have said before, if the quantity isn't there, they need to deliver on quality. I think they will get a free pass on this one and if they don't deliver the quality this time, that risks a problem next time

I'm not envisioning any significant sales problems here though

When was the last time they delivered in quality? Season 3?
I mean sure, it will sell. Question is will it sell enough? Or even as much as a proper expansion? Arena Net has had financial troubles in the past, not sure they can recover if this doesn't reach their goals.

Anyway no sweat of my back, just wish that i could have the option of coming back to the game i already spent like 10k hours on, if i wanted to. But for now, i really have no compulsion to do so, so its a small loss if it fails.

[Randulf.7614]

Last time? First half of IBS. Before Champions it was very well received and growing in popularity and in critical reception. Before that, LS4 is widely regarded as the best season and the highest quality. Even PoF had a lot of polish and quality even if it lacked the replayability. It's also the largest expac.

Even EoD was critically well received and highly popular away from the forums, although I can't agree with the assessment myself

There are lots of valid criticisms that can be levelled at the pve side of the game - Champions, Gyala, EoD being understocked for content - but I think looking at the wider picture the quality is there. The issue is most of these problems are within the last 2-3 years and the attempt to juggle too many fish and move on to a new direction before finishing what was in the pan finally caught up with them.

Now, they ahve cleared the decks somewhat with this new strategy so they can be more balanced and less pressured. If that means less quantity, then I am tentatively fine with that, but the quality needs to be back to the standards of LS4, IBS (Grothmar/Drizzlwood) and HoT or higher. There are encouraging signs that a lot of what was announced is what players have asked for.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[ReaverKane.7598]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Last time? First half of IBS. Before Champions it was very well received and growing in popularity and in critical reception. Before that, LS4 is widely regarded as the best season and the highest quality. Even PoF had a lot of polish and quality even if it lacked the replayability. It's also the largest expac.

Even EoD was critically well received and highly popular away from the forums, although I can't agree with the assessment myself

There are lots of valid criticisms that can be levelled at the pve side of the game - Champions, Gyala, EoD being understocked for content - but I think looking at the wider picture the quality is there. The issue is most of these are within the last 2-3 years and the attempt to juggle too many fish and move on to a new direction before finishing what was in the pan finally caught up with them.

Now, they ahve cleared the decks somewhat with this new strategy so they can be more balanced and less pressured. If that means less quantity, then I am tentatively fine with that, but the quality needs to be back to the standards of LS4, IBS (Grothmar/Drizzlwood) and HoT or higher. There are encouraging signs that a lot of what was announced is what players have asked for.

LOL Season 4, best quality? Maybe after the fact. Kinda like the Star Wars prequels are now quite good compared to the sequels...
Because i do remember quite well the interminable server issues during season 4. And being unable to play during forearmed is forewarned for several days. But that's quality i guess.

I'm glad you mentioned IBS, because that's kinda my point, what they promised for IBS isn't too dissimilar from what they're promising now, except with a price tag. And what they delivered was far from hitting the mark.

Hey i'm the fool me once kinda guy. Other people get to choose how they're played the fool. I might even be wrong and this thing be an absolute hit. Given the track record of the past 5-7 years or so, i'm not holding my breath.

[Randulf.7614]

20 minutes ago, ReaverKane.7598 said:

LOL Season 4, best quality? Maybe after the fact. Kinda like the Star Wars prequels are now quite good compared to the sequels...
Because i do remember quite well the interminable server issues during season 4. And being unable to play during forearmed is forewarned for several days. But that's quality i guess.

I'm glad you mentioned IBS, because that's kinda my point, what they promised for IBS isn't too dissimilar from what they're promising now, except with a price tag. And what they delivered was far from hitting the mark.

Hey i'm the fool me once kinda guy. Other people get to choose how they're played the fool. I might even be wrong and this thing be an absolute hit. Given the track record of the past 5-7 years or so, i'm not holding my breath.

The quality of maps and production values for LS4 is vastly higher than most of the game though. There is no question is amongst their best work and that is generally mirrored by the enthusiastic response from the community both then and now

Except Kourna

But, everyone needs to find their own path and if people aren't convinced or are holding off, that's perfectly fine. They will get a free pass on this one from me. EoD put me off for over a year. But, I've mellowed towards it and although Gyala was a misfire, I'll see what they deliver with this. 

[Myror.7521]

Idk I did like what I see we will get so I indeed like it. Yes there is endgame content left behind (raids and PvP for Most Part) but overall we will get:

1. A new Rune System

2. New Strikes

3. One more new Fractal

4. 2-3 more Maps

5. New Weapons+e-spec weapons are now core bound

6.new legy armory

If i take all this and set it to compare it with an acutuall expansion called EoD. (1. new e-spec/2. new Weapons/3. New Strikes/4. New mounts/5. Fishing/ 6. New Maps) idk you but to me the new "smaller" expansion looks actually to be as big as a normal one...

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Balsa.3951]

2 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

If you don't think it's worth the price don't buy it. Wait until it's discounted to a price you do think is reasonable, and/or until all the stuff they're promising will come later is actually out and you can see exactly what you get for your money.

u say the obvious but thia apply to everything.

OP is right to ask why pay the same for substancle less content.

the if u don't like it don't buy it argument is not a new concept for everyone here

[Johnny.1634]

Yeah, its pretty sad to see how far GW2 has fallen.

And that "trailer"...yikes

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Considering most new content GW2 adds dies a few months later.  I think waiting for a sale will be a mistake.  Being there at the start with everyone else is the best choice and gives the best chance at some rare new drop being valuable.

Also, the price is pretty cheap.  Even if I add up every dollar I have paid across to full upgraded accounts, the time per dollar is laughably low.

[elrin.4750]

Sadly, the good old days are over.

The ony real expansion was HoT and PoF. 

For HoT, they have to reduce the price like after a month of release  because of lack of content.

PoF was the best expansion in terms of content and price.

EoD was bad, and people did not get their moneys worth. I mean, some people don't even have the turtle mount that they paid for.

So yeah, this is how they are gonna roll from now on. Every year you will pay $25 for an  "expansion".  I would say this is looking more like a yearly subscription they have implemented.

[Knighthonor.4061]

they selling living story now. Thats the new marketing strategy after the post PoF Struggle.

 

We likely will get new elite specs in future expansions. 

 

My concern is, with this move to the new model, is it possible to get brand new things like new Weapon Types, new Races, New WvW Maps, Housing, stuff like that

[jokke.6239]

6 hours ago, elrin.4750 said:

Sadly, the good old days are over.

The ony real expansion was HoT and PoF. 

For HoT, they have to reduce the price like after a month of release  because of lack of content.

PoF was the best expansion in terms of content and price.

EoD was bad, and people did not get their moneys worth. I mean, some people don't even have the turtle mount that they paid for.

So yeah, this is how they are gonna roll from now on. Every year you will pay $25 for an  "expansion".  I would say this is looking more like a yearly subscription they have implemented.

Yearly subscription of 1 or 2 $

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Maybe swimsuits will be an entire expansion next time

[vrauns.3215]

While it was fun to play every episode, one by one, regarding the previous expansions, it was also bad, because you could do it in one day and be done in a matter of hours and that would be it, the expac would be done and you would have no new story to play.

[Gazrul.3086]

While I'd like to see new elite specs, we still have a ridiculous number of specs in the game at the moment. We have 36 specs, if we count the core specs. That's just 3 specs less than WoW has right now. 

Giving us the option to use elite spec weapons on any spec is quite huge, and opens up a *lot* of new playstyles and new ways to play each spec, so I find it to be a fair trade-off for not getting any new elite specs in this expansion. 

The maps are likely going to be good. Yes, there will be fewer of them, but if they're packed with fun content, meta events, memorable bosses and lucrative loot, then that's also a good trade-off. 

Raids were always unpopular content that is played by a vast minority of the player base, so strikes make more sense to make as wasting resources on content most players don't care about is stupid. 

Also, this monetary strategy will benefit new and returning players the most, as they won't have to pay for DLC content anymore since it'll be included in the expansions. 

Relics are also a new thing, and are there to give people more options to customise their characters. Hopefully they'll also release a legendary relic as well.

Skyscale upgrades are also good, since it's clear that the new maps will likely not be on the ground, so we will get new ways to travel and explore. 

We're also getting a whole new system of doing dailies/weeklies for fun rewards and collectibles. 

And on top of it all, each spec gets a whole new weapon, though I admit I'm personally not really excited about this.

I'd say all of this is pretty good for the 25€ price tag. 

[Geralt.7519]

Price looks fine to me for what we get, but hey you have a right to your own opinion and if it's too much for you, don't buy it.

As for new elites, don't we have enough already? I mean they can't go on adding new classes indefinitely, the game would become a mess, not even WoW does that each xpac.

The only reason I'm holding off is I have all 7 leggy runes, I'm waiting to see what their compensation is before I decide if I'll buy it or not.

[tenklo.6104]

For less then 30$ for a expansion.. with what there sending out it worth it…. Know if we can get mini expansion for world vs world… and spvp… I know anybody main in those game mode would buy the ultimate edition.. just so they focused more on it

[Ashen.2907]

14 minutes ago, tenklo.6104 said:

For less then 30$ for a expansion.. with what there sending out it worth it…. Know if we can get mini expansion for world vs world… and spvp… I know anybody main in those game mode would buy the ultimate edition.. just so they focused more on it

I would have bought a WvW targeted expac in the past.

[SoftPup.3048]

I think SotO is worth $25. And PoF and EoD were worth way more than the $30 Anet charged for them. They've probably been shooting themselves in the foot for charging so little for expansions and nothing for living world.

[Panda.1967]

On 6/27/2023 at 5:02 PM, Tren.5120 said:

It will work, though.  It always works.

You do know that twice now Arena Net has attempted to do away with full size expansions in favor of living world only for them to fold and release an actual expansion right? Originally there were not going to be expansions, the original plan for GW2 was to expand the world overtime through the Living World system, which at the time was a series of limited time events that built up the lore of the world. This ultimately failed due to the limited time nature of the original Living World system. That lead into the release of Living World S2 to build up for the first ever expansion, Heart of Thorns…. Fast forward several years, LWs4 and PoF have all released… Arena Net decides that they want to try again with Living World being how the game progresses from now on… so they release Ice Brood Saga, promising to be a bigger better living world experience than ever before to make up for the fact that there won’t be any more expansions… and… it failed… they quickly shift gears and start work on EoD after seeing how bad Ice Brood Saga is as an expansion replacement… not ready to give up on having no more expansions, Arena Net is trying on e more now with SotO… a “mini-expansion” but its fooling noone… we all know its just Living World repackaged under a new name and release model… it too will fail…

Edited July 8, 2023 by Panda.1967