Warriors getting Staff in Expansion 4!! Whats your ideas for it?

[Infinity.2876]

What I'm hoping:

1. stab (deal damage) -> slash (deal cone of aoe damage) -> ready (all nearby allies gain 1 stack of might)

2. piercing charge (piercing damage with that moves you foward and deals damage along the way)

3. impaling stance (gain protection, stability, and a stance effect which deals damage when enemies move closer)

4. rain of ballista (call down a rain of spears on the target area, if you are within melee range of an enemy it automatically casts on your location)

5. battle standard (plant your spear into the ground creating a battle standard. It gives might to allies and inflicts vuln on enemies periodically)

burst. inspiring flag (plant a flag into the ground which prevents enemies from crossing and gives allies healing, regen, and protection)

berserker burst. pennant of defeat (plant a flag into an enemy which applies vuln, slow, and weakness to that enemy and it's nearby allies)

what will actually happen

[Jzaku.9765]

10 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Eh. I can't agree with that. Warrior has a decent amount of support in utility skills and traits, it really just needs something that can add a bit of sustained healing in there. A weapon is a safer way of achieving that then supercharging Soldier's Comfort or shout heals until they do the job.

I suspect the burst skill itself won't be a heal, though, in order to normalise the healing available in different builds.

Modern support builds need to do more than just Heal. You are competing with builds on the tier of Heal Firebrand.

Just look at LFG for ALL endgame content - At least on NA, despite there being so many "valid" healers with their own unique strengths (e.g., Heal Alac Scourge and Tempest's incredible res power), the overwhelming majority of LFGs are still looking for specifically HFB because it's just overall stronger for all content, with the immense amount of flexibility afforded to the class through their tomes and utility skills. 

Flexibility that Warrior does not have. Let's call staff a black box with whatever remaining functionality we need and try to fit everything HFB is able to do (in one build!) onto the other aspects of the build:

• you need burst healing so that means taking multiple Shouts
• banners provide Stab, Aegis, Regen, and ranged "Healing"(barrier) between Tact and Def, which are competing for utility slots with Shouts
• you need CC, which either you play berserk-less Berserker for core Mace F1 or take utility skills which are competing for utility slots again (remember that Bsw takes the Alac Slash trait instead of CC Slash)
• If you are on Quickness Berserker either you (again) are on Berserk-less Berserker or have Rage skills competing for utility slots

That's not even mentioning the more niche things hfb is able to easily handle - e.g., reflects. You can think about the situation as "Staff - alone - is competing against Firebrand's Tomes". It's not like Guardian's utility skills and traits are inferior to Warrior's in terms of providing support. Quite the opposite, really.

I've played Heal Tempest since HOT and have experienced firsthand how if a build is merely able to mimic a fraction of the top dog's power, it might as well not exist in terms of the meta. That's a descriptive statement - It's not how it should be, but how it is. 

[draxynnic.3719]

I've very rarely seen LFGs be that specific about what they're asking for - most groups I've joined just care about having boons and sufficient healing.

We have boondps builds now. They might not be the top of the meta right now, but they exist. Maybe they need buffing, but it's worth keeping in mind that there's always going to be one that's perceived as just a bit better than the others (sometimes that perception even matches reality!).

Healing, though, is out of reach (healbreaker exists in sPvP, but that's a different environment and doesn't translate well to instanced PvE). To have a shot at that role, warrior needs some form of more sustained healing than the odd shoutheal. Staff can provide that. Boon access is, naturally, also important, but that could come from a variety of sources including staff skills (the burst skills might be a bunch of boons, for instance). The support warrior would, however, still have another set to work with (maybe mace/warhorn if you really want some CC and staff doesn't provide it?).

Demanding that staff be yet another damage weapon is basically giving up on heal warrior ever being a thing. If the intent was for just another damage weapon, there are better options - some which might even have the chance of having the pull you're asking for!

[Jzaku.9765]

7 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I've very rarely seen LFGs be that specific about what they're asking for - most groups I've joined just care about having boons and sufficient healing.

We have boondps builds now. They might not be the top of the meta right now, but they exist. Maybe they need buffing, but it's worth keeping in mind that there's always going to be one that's perceived as just a bit better than the others (sometimes that perception even matches reality!).

Healing, though, is out of reach (healbreaker exists in sPvP, but that's a different environment and doesn't translate well to instanced PvE). To have a shot at that role, warrior needs some form of more sustained healing than the odd shoutheal. Staff can provide that. Boon access is, naturally, also important, but that could come from a variety of sources including staff skills (the burst skills might be a bunch of boons, for instance). The support warrior would, however, still have another set to work with (maybe mace/warhorn if you really want some CC and staff doesn't provide it?).

Demanding that staff be yet another damage weapon is basically giving up on heal warrior ever being a thing. If the intent was for just another damage weapon, there are better options - some which might even have the chance of having the pull you're asking for!

FWIW I do think Staff should be a support weapon. I'm just extremely concerned as to what the balance team thinks the state of Support Warrior is - there really has been no indication of a bigger rework to put it on the same level as even the new Heal Herald build the last balance patch brought that absolutely turbo juiced it's boon access giving it much more flexibility as a result. 

[Napo.1230]

This is my concern ^ warrior currently doesn't offer much in support in 2023 and definitely can't compete with any of the other support builds currently.

Now if you make staff so op that it does it will last 5 minutes before it is nuked in competitive.

I've came to accept that warrior hits things until they die and if I want to play support I'll relog and play support.

Without any new traits/utilities staff alone can not save/create support warrior so I'd rather it enhanced what we have....let's throw spears and do damage.

I'd rather be solid in one area than weak in all to fill a roll other classes can do so much better.

Not every class needs to do it all and that's why I play warrior.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Warrior offers excellent support and is one of the best supports all around.
Thing is he's no healer and majority of community seems to think healer = support.

Both warrior and heal scourge are clear evidence that's not the case.
Scourge wishes he had warrior's supportive features, while Warrior wishes he had Scourge's raw heal/barrier output.

Putting that aside, and on a serious note (unlike my last post here) - I think staff should be healing/condi weapon.
Warrior has some unfinished business with both confusion and torment - two condies he should get more of.
Also confusion would fit a healer warrior very much - if enemies try to hurt your teammates they get punished hard with confusion ticks.
Very fitting for warrior's offensive approach to supporting erm healing i mean. Yeah, those Fear Me! healing casts. That's what I meant!

Edited July 25, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Jzaku.9765]

8 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Warrior offers excellent support and is one of the best supports all around.
Thing is he's no healer and majority of community seems to think healer = support.

Both warrior and heal scourge are clear evidence that's not the case.
Scourge wishes he had warrior's supportive features, while Warrior wishes he had Scourge's raw heal/barrier output.

Putting that aside, and on a serious note (unlike my last post here) - I think staff should be healing/condi weapon.
Warrior has some unfinished business with both confusion and torment - two condies he should get more of.
Also confusion would fit a healer warrior very much - if enemies try to hurt your teammates they get punished hard with confusion ticks.
Very fitting for warrior's offensive approach to supporting erm healing i mean. Yeah, those Fear Me! healing casts. That's what I meant!

PVE Roles are extremely well defined in the current state of the game. There is no confusion regarding what support means when discussing PVE. If anything, I would like you to elaborate on what support means to you, because consensus (defined as a common understanding among a group of people) seems to disagree with your interpretation. 

So what are you defining as Warrior's support? 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Fast easy and reliable -> that's what makes warrior a great support.

If it's offensive warrior has it covered. Might, Fury, Quickness,  Alacrity.
Heck both might and alacrity may be BiS in the whole game.

Tons of 600 radius casts. Do not underestimate this feature. A lot of supports gotta struggle with 240 radius casts and not every pug you get will stack neatly at all times especially when mechanics are being done. Don't get me even started on heal scourge when some key supportive skills (Sandstorm Shroud and Sand Cascade) have 180 radius...

Defensive plays that don't have 24/7 uptime (that's healer's job), but have big impact.
600 radius Aoe stunbreak with ammo system? Yes, pls.
Full ress elite banner? I'll take it.
Access to party resolution and resistance - two boons that don't grow on trees? I won't complain.

Warrior is great at super buffing your group fast and then keeping the momentum going with strong interventions when things go south.
That's a pretty strong support kit in my eyes.

Keeping the whole party alive when they mess up time after time is a healer's job. Warrior is an offensive support and in that role he's great.
Except maybe recent addition of stability on Martial Cadence which is a reactive boon on proactive mechanic.
But I'm hoping they'll iron that one out.
 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Fast easy and reliable -> that's what makes warrior a great support.

If it's offensive warrior has it covered. Might, Fury, Quickness,  Alacrity.
Heck both might and alacrity may be BiS in the whole game.

Tons of 600 radius casts. Do not underestimate this feature. A lot of supports gotta struggle with 240 radius casts and not every pug you get will stack neatly at all times especially when mechanics are being done. Don't get me even started on heal scourge when some key supportive skills (Sandstorm Shroud and Sand Cascade) have 180 radius...

Defensive plays that don't have 24/7 uptime (that's healer's job), but have big impact.
600 radius Aoe stunbreak with ammo system? Yes, pls.
Full ress elite banner? I'll take it.
Access to party resolution and resistance - two boons that don't grow on trees? I won't complain.

Warrior is great at super buffing your group fast and then keeping the momentum going with strong interventions when things go south.
That's a pretty strong support kit in my eyes.

Keeping the whole party alive when they mess up time after time is a healer's job. Warrior is an offensive support and in that role he's great.
Except maybe recent addition of stability on Martial Cadence which is a reactive boon on proactive mechanic.
But I'm hoping they'll iron that one out.
 

 

Yeah, radius of boon application was very noticeable with HAT when all the alacrity was at the end of the channel - didn't require moving much at the wrong time to miss out on a lot of alacrity.

There's at least the start of a solid foundation there, but when it comes to healing support, I think staff is something that could bring it all together in the end. This may require buffs and reworks to the utility skills and traits as well, but ultimately, they can either try to balance support warrior as a build which has a suitable healing weapon, or as one that doesn't. Having an additional balance lever is something that will ultimately make warrior easier to balance rather than harder, especially since it removes the complication of warrior always having an aggressive MH option.

We could argue about where support warrior is now until the cows come home, but there's going to be more balance patches before staff is even released, let alone after. And in practice, the professions that really make it as a support healer are usually those that have at least one weapon suitable for that... which includes staff in the majority of cases (heck, I think the only staff that is fully aggressive is on thief, and mesmer has the only other staff with no healing at all).

Edited July 25, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Myror.7521]

@Jzaku.9765 the "unique thing" a Power/supp warr would maybe be able to bring in would be. Actually good healing while doing the best dps Off all heal/supp builds. Thats been said idk If this would be a realy solid reason to Play it over the Rest of healing Specs. Since it does still not gain something Like quickness or alacrity at the same time.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Myror.7521

[sneakytails.5629]

Been playing Dagger/Warhorn - Hammer Healbreaker in full Clerics gear. Its been playing okay in small groups, but suffers in zerg play. I tried to stay with the smaller skirmishes that always seems to break out during zerg fights. Been running it in smaller 2man comps while roaming too, it seems better in 3-10man events.

Few movement abilities and low stunbreaks/stab is a real problem. Taking all the shouts on the utility bar hurts choice and really cuts down on movement abilities and stab.

Plus side is Full Counter, Warhorn for blasting combo fields and Barrier, 3.6k heals times 6 shouts, "To the Limit" heal restores all endurance for allies, Boon rip on CC, two sources of reveals ("On my mark", and Magebane Tether).

I feel the Hammer is more valuable in smaller groups.

I hope Staff is good. I would run it in Zerg type fights more. It might work better on Core Warrior, I think the Hammer fits Spellbreaker better.

I will add the last bonus of the Trooper rune, when the split happens. Right now I like my Natures Bounty stats.

 

 

[Talis Whitewolf.4183]

Perhaps something along the lines of a power version of Revenant staff (with the same animations) with a possible side of Daredevil… Perhaps with a block/riposte on 4 instead of heal.

 

You lot may not agree but IMO warrior staff should be close quarters like Revenant and Daredevil staff, not something for launching laser beams or calling down meteor showers.

 

Just something plain, simple and deadly. A Quarterstaff like the Bo.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Please... not another melee dps weapon. Please...

[Dirame.8521]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Please... not another melee dps weapon. Please...

I really think you're out of luck mate hahaha.

[Artyport.2084]

I like the idea that warriors channel their might, strength, and defense through their staff and share it to allies. they bonk their enemies to confuse them and disable them . 

1. auto attack with heavy confusion 

2. mobility skill with very short cool down like jaunt but instead a shirt dash 

3. spinning to win: spin so hard you create a whirlwind that gives allies super speed and cripples /confuses enemies inside of it 

4. Slam into a target area dealing damage and imbuing your allies with might and barrier 

5. Flip over: command post: stand your ground gaining stacks of stability and reduce damage taken by 50 percent. Summon banners that grant boons to allies and conditions to foes. 
 

Banner skills 

1. Banner throw : charge a banner throw a banner at your enemy dealing more confusion based on how long you hold. 
2. Inspire. Grant stability and swiftness to allies 

3. discourage: fear enemies at a target location 

4. protect: grant barrier and allies get healed for each stack of night on them.

5. Into the fray : return to your melee staff healing allies with stability 

burst: taunt enemies in a 600 range and you and your allies gain barrier , cause confusion for each enemy interrupted . 

primal burst:gain barrier and  taunt a single enemy filling then with rage: granting them high stack of confusion, low burning and quickness. If enemy dies steal their quickness and grant to allies 

 

just the theme 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Artyport.2084

[Myror.7521]

I always where though we need staff as an only healing weapon. However I would also love staff as a dps weapon. This been said. We might not only need a supp weapon but also an e-spec that Support this Playstyle. Without an e-spec going this way a Full supp weapon would be useless the moment it come Out. 

The Weapon:

With this in mind i think a dps/supp weapon would be the best way for staff. Maybe take it as an old gw1 dervish Playstyle.

weapon skill 1: is a bit Higher ranged AA Chain (160 range with up to 5 targeds that can be Hit).

weapon Skill 2: works like Axe 2 a spin around yourself able to hit 2 times no targed gab but instead of gain fury  it share this boon plus some might to your group (450 range)

Weapon Skill 3: Trow/Spin you weapon to Deal dmg. (900 range) can hit up to 5 targeds. Cripple you enemys

Weapon Skill 4: Block the next incoming attacks. After using it a second time you share Regeneration to you group and heals them

Weapon Skill 5: Throw/Spin your Weapon though you enemy (450 range) to make dmg over time to him use the Skill again to attract him.

New e-spec:

Would gain the warr a new list of Burst skills. But instead of just dmg they will Support your group.

[Phyrak.7260]

I guess I am in an adjacent lane to some of the ideas.

Considering the likes of billhooks and the Bek de Corbin - perhaps a mixture of soft and hard cc with some support thrown in for good measure.

Immobilise and blind with strong passive offensive/utility boon application - a hammer without the heavy cc and a greatsword without its concentrated damage.

With a dash of warhorn thrown in for good measure.

Soft control and the outflow of strength in self control. Perhaps taking the idea of the martial warrior to the next level considering the nigh elemental berserker and anti mage spell breaker.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

What could get me back is a staff that can finally replace GS in competetive. 

Give it any means of self-sustain (could work some team buffs here) give it solid damage and nice animations and we cook.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:16 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You know what I bet Anet is doing with Staff?

I bet they are rolling all the banners into Staff, put Battle Standard into F1 but without the rez/finish. Would be pick middle finger to warriors. But hey, you could take banners and shouts then so... It would work in the end.

What if staff is just the banner kit we used to get when picking them up

Id full on cry, that would be the mic drop verse of "anet hates designing warrior skills"

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

23 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

What could get me back is a staff that can finally replace GS in competetive. 

Give it any means of self-sustain (could work some team buffs here) give it solid damage and nice animations and we cook.

If i get a block or mobility on it and it hits hard enough its over.  I'll play staff.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

49 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

What if staff is just the banner kit we used to get when picking them up

Id full on cry, that would be the mic drop verse of "anet hates designing warrior skills"

I'd say that last bit is probably already at least partially true. At least in the capacity that they seem to, on some level from the outside looking in, feel like they need to strictly design anything relating to Warrior as the least magical adjacent or oriented as they can. They have 100% absolutely designed skills that would be fantastic for a Warrior on other classes like Willbender, Vindicator, Holosmith, Untamed, just normal Ranger (Greatsword), even Catalyst if you look at a number of those Hammer skills.

Which sure, even in GW1 Warrior was the least magically oriented profession. You know what they also had in GW1 though? Multiclassing. War/Monk, War/Derv, War/Rit, War/Ranger, War/Assassin, War/Paragon were all things you could do and they all gave Warrior a ton more utility that it alone as a class did not fully provide, which was kind of the entire point of that whole system.

They don't quite seem to want to lean into that in GW2, though...even though they are giving all very relevant and essentially mandatory tools to every other class. I am slightly anticipating Staff being support oriented...but I'm also not 100% expecting it, it is far more likely that it will be another melee weapon being used like how it is on Daredevil and Revenant. In which case I hope it actually provides some things that Warrior is severely lacking, however that is also a very unrealistic and enormous thing to expect from just one set of weapon skills and is not likely to happen.

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

I'd say that last bit is probably already at least partially true. At least in the capacity that they seem to, on some level from the outside looking in, feel like they need to strictly design anything relating to Warrior as the least magical adjacent or oriented as they can. They have 100% absolutely designed skills that would be fantastic for a Warrior on other classes like Willbender, Vindicator, Holosmith, Untamed, just normal Ranger (Greatsword), even Catalyst if you look at a number of those Hammer skills.

Which sure, even in GW1 Warrior was the least magically oriented profession. You know what they also had in GW1 though? Multiclassing. War/Monk, War/Derv, War/Rit, War/Ranger, War/Assassin, War/Paragon were all things you could do and they all gave Warrior a ton more utility that it alone as a class did not fully provide, which was kind of the entire point of that whole system.

They don't quite seem to want to lean into that in GW2, though...even though they are giving all very relevant and essentially mandatory tools to every other class. I am slightly anticipating Staff being support oriented...but I'm also not 100% expecting it, it is far more likely that it will be another melee weapon being used like how it is on Daredevil and Revenant. In which case I hope it actually provides some things that Warrior is severely lacking, however that is also a very unrealistic and enormous thing to expect from just one set of weapon skills and is not likely to happen.

I think you're probably right from a historical perspective - warrior skills being low-magic does reduce their design space a bit. Weaponmaster training has somewhat loosened this already, though: dagger 5 means that every warrior now has the capability to unleash a flurry of conjured blades. So with that precedent set, they might be willing to give warrior some more magic in the future, on the theory that choosing that weapon indicates that this particular warrior is one who dabbles in a bit of magic.

[sneakytails.5629]

I am making a legendary staff as my 2nd legendary weapon.

So what is the staff F1 going to be?

I want it to be stacked like the old full counter, but we all know what will happen if it is on launch.

Edited September 6, 2023 by sneakytails.5629

[Dirame.8521]

52 minutes ago, RDBuck.6098 said:

When I played warrior 12 years ago it was a fun class now it ok but still play it. But I feel that bringing in a melee weapon like a staff not a good Idea. I feel anet should bring in a spear like the pargon from gw1. Or do a greataxe. And also they need to rework the greatsword to it be fun play again need to change out whirling attack and put in leaping attack because as far as I'm concerned the Revenant greatsword is better than the warrior. 

Ha! The only thing that makes Rev greatsword better is the damage scaling. If it was given the same dmg scaling that War GS has you wouldn't be liking it. You'd probably be saying something like "War GS has an evade! Why don't Revs get an evade on their GS"

I've always felt that the Rev damage on GS was unnecessarily big. It makes some players think they are better than they actually are, not knowing its the GS damage that's carrying them. Just like how Ranger Sword and GS damage is carrying even the worst players of that class.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Dirame.8521