You can't give vindi/herald short bow

[Flowki.7194]

You give a shortbow to a power vindi/herald, he can sit in dome for 20 seconds and still spam seven shot/bloodbane. That is an absolute hard counter to physical ranged, they will have to run away, or get inside dome. If they get inside dome they have burned dodges and likely some defences, you then just spam dodge twise, swap to swords/alliance, hit meld spam another 2 dodges, and you also have full energy to burn on dps as you don't need to close the gap. The dome is also a combo field, auto attacks will clense any condi dmg from other ranged attackers in applicable situations. If you see 3 physical ranged in ranked, swap to cent and you win. Thats before the fact that cent explode got a big buff, its a knockback that gives you a heal+stability. Thats worth using even if there are no physical ranged, you get access to clense/heal/stun/stability, while the cent stun also sets off some crit/dmg traits from invocation, and you have a ranged weapon so that you don't need energy to close the gap on none physical ranged, the ranged 2 and 3 are very cheap on enrgy meaning you can spam some heals/protenction/stability and still do good dmg. Shortbow takes away vindi/herlads key weakness, you can burn energy on dps rather than gap closers, or, use gap closers to get away from the likes of SB, and then do ranged dmg.

[Hotride.2187]

Yeah I fought a gs/shortbow vindi, it was really funny. Person was just spamming skills, getting solid sustain and pumping out pretty solid dmg. Its was almost like fighting a cata.

I have 0 faith allowing spec weapons will improve balance in any way. But oh well.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

3 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I have 0 faith allowing spec weapons will improve balance in any way. But oh well.

I expect it will improve core engi balance but thats about it.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Yeah I fought a gs/shortbow vindi, it was really funny. Person was just spamming skills, getting solid sustain and pumping out pretty solid dmg. Its was almost like fighting a cata.

I have 0 faith allowing spec weapons will improve balance in any way. But oh well.

 

On the pluss side, for those who hate ele, none of the weapons will cross over very well (at least thats how it looks to me). Hammer looks like it will be garbage on weaver, it has no unique dual abilitys (as of yet?), and hammer has none existant mobility or combo fields. The rest of the weapons have such issues one way or another. There might be some marginal use for weaver sword on support tempest, but as a dps option, even most weavers don't use it.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

On the pluss side, for those who hate ele, none of the weapons will cross over very well (at least thats how it looks to me). Hammer looks like it will be garbage on weaver, it has no unique dual abilitys (as of yet?), and hammer has none existant mobility or combo fields. The rest of the weapons have such issues one way or another. There might be some marginal use for weaver sword on support tempest, but as a dps option, even most weavers don't use it.

Someone wrote that Sword/Warhorn Weaver does topkek dps on immovable golem in PvE, so your claim is false 1111!!!11!
Hammer may be usable on some Tempest meme build, Sword maybe on Catalyst, Warhorn in WvW/PvP KEK no. Weapons are really flawed and are just gimmicks.
Although Sword/Dagger for core Ele sounds like dream coming true for PvE role plays.
You guys should start converting into PvE oriented players, since PvP and WvW will be a disaster after they release that Weaponmaster thing.

[Lonecap.4105]

Weapon mastery was a mistake and will be a long term balancing nightmare. People would've been coped enough knowing new core weapons were coming.

[Flowki.7194]

To be fair ive played more sword/dagger on sage tempest and its better than I thought for dps. You have to spec into fira auras and condi, along with earth, fire, air signets and regen on aura/overload. There is a constant flow of auras/healing/protection from earth sig/overload > fire trait procs, field combo and overload while air sig can help mask fire overload in 1v1. You don't even have to finish fire overload, just start it for the aura then dodge, but youll get another if you think you can land it. Polaric leap and updraft also combo really well, people don't get time to react. There is also an emergency easy double heal combo going from water field into earth, while churn puts you back into melee for the stun.

It actaully feels far better to play than weaver.. although its a lot of extra risk getting up close when you could just use scepter.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I have 0 faith allowing spec weapons will improve balance in any way. But oh well.

Improve? no.

Complicate in several ways when it's already pretty obvious there are issues balancing the existing assortment of specs/weapons for pvp? Most definitely. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Someone wrote that Sword/Warhorn Weaver does topkek dps on immovable golem in PvE, so your claim is false 1111!!!11!
Hammer may be usable on some Tempest meme build, Sword maybe on Catalyst, Warhorn in WvW/PvP KEK no. Weapons are really flawed and are just gimmicks.
Although Sword/Dagger for core Ele sounds like dream coming true for PvE role plays.
You guys should start converting into PvE oriented players, since PvP and WvW will be a disaster after they release that Weaponmaster thing.

For once I agree with Demigod

[Kuma.1503]

Shortbow literally completes my Ventari support build. Now I'm able to do my job of supporting the team, but I can pump out good consistent damage at the same time. 

Shield also just so happens to be the perfect complimentary weapon because it lets me defend myself if focused and counter pressure melees with mace. 

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Shortbow literally completes my Ventari support build. Now I'm able to do my job of supporting the team, but I can pump out good consistent damage at the same time. 

Shield also just so happens to be the perfect complimentary weapon because it lets me defend myself if focused and counter pressure melees with mace. 

Yeah I found it works very well on my vindi support build, it will be better than tempest at countering ranged, you gain a lot of damage with the shortbow while sacrificing nothing. You can also trait into condi, play a slightly more selfish line for battle scare, and basically just auto attack from dome for bleed+health+condi clense, saving energy to heal with the dome (for unblockables) or keep the dome up longer. Its such a troll, I use to do it on renegade before vindi expantion.

 

I killed multiple rangers/deadeyes, and took next to no damage.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:41 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Improve? no.

Complicate in several ways when it's already pretty obvious there are issues balancing the existing assortment of specs/weapons for pvp? Most definitely. 

Mesmer here, the whole weaponmaster thing is going to be BLISS for us and I'm not even kidding. Axe unlocks main hand damage (something none of our MH weapons have), shield unlocks great personal defense.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Arheundel.6451]

15 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Yeah I found it works very well on my vindi support build, it will be better than tempest at countering ranged, you gain a lot of damage with the shortbow while sacrificing nothing. You can also trait into condi, play a slightly more selfish line for battle scare, and basically just auto attack from dome for bleed+health+condi clense, saving energy to heal with the dome (for unblockables) or keep the dome up longer. Its such a troll, I use to do it on renegade before vindi expantion.

 

I killed multiple rangers/deadeyes, and took next to no damage.

You present the perfect analysis for the devs to read and apply the necessary changes:

Quote

you gain a lot of damage with the shortbow while sacrificing nothing

Quote

just auto attack from dome for bleed+health+condi clense, saving energy to heal with the dome

I can't believe that Rev players expect to keep the status quo..you know already that nerfs will come fast

[Flowki.7194]

56 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You present the perfect analysis for the devs to read and apply the necessary changes:

I can't believe that Rev players expect to keep the status quo..you know already that nerfs will come fast

Hammer/staff vindi support was already good (and got a lot better with cent stability), it would not have took much of a buff in those areas to make it a strong support (something like -30% physical dmg inside dome), and perhaps a slight dmg increase on hammer, some slight energy reductions on staff or stat buffs. Shortbow is just too much, but an easy fix would be to increase energy cost on 2&3, then add an energy redcution in renegade tree.

 

I hope they do read this, becuase the way it looks, cent will just get nerfed to fk... which would be a real shame.

[Shao.7236]

Shortbow is a purely offensive weapon with no sustain attached to it, logic dictates that you should only focus on damaging the player when they are using it and that's pretty much the same thing with any specs.

It shows that the majority of people have no clue of the potential hammer has and the reason why it's not seen as much is just the buggy state of CoR is in because in retrospect Hammer is superior to Shortbow in every way as a Power weapon in PvP with the same damage potential while having sustain. Wait until everyone gets used to it, Shortbow will fall in place soon enough, nerfs from the past will catch up.

As for Greatsword, in a literal sense the shadow former self of what off-hand sword should have been on Revenant but they did away with the lazy cope out that we now have today instead. It doesn't need to be changed. The concepts aren't new and neither were OP back then, no reason it should be now.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Shao.7236

[Flowki.7194]

19 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Shortbow is a purely offensive weapon with no sustain attached to it, logic dictates that you should only focus on damaging the player when they are using it and that's pretty much the same thing with any specs.

It shows that the majority of people have no clue of the potential hammer has and the reason why it's not seen as much is just the buggy state of CoR is in because in retrospect Hammer is superior to Shortbow in every way as a Power weapon in PvP with the same damage potential while having sustain. Wait until everyone gets used to it, Shortbow will fall in place soon enough, nerfs from the past will catch up.

As for Greatsword, in a literal sense the shadow former self of what off-hand sword should have been on Revenant but they did away with the lazy cope out that we now have today instead. It doesn't need to be changed. The concepts aren't new and neither were OP back then, no reason it should be now.

 

Double post sorry.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

 

Offense is also defense, and its not like hammer has an overwhelming amount of personal sustain. A short evade and a long cast, highly broadcast knockdown, while bow also has a quicker knockdown, and area denial/slow. Mist is good, but is somewhat overkill when you have dome, as you can save your dodges for dome downtime/unblockables vs a projectile. Obviously if on another legend mist is good, but all weapons have pros and cons.

 

On support, I went sage amu with the bow. The damage is far easier and consistant to apply, I was killing people much easier. Maybe that won't be the case for power builds, like you said, but were many vindi/heralds using hammer anyway? If thats not the case then what is stopping power builds going to condi like zerker?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Enduronex.4865]

[deleted]

Edited January 14 by Enduronex.4865

[Polar.8634]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:06 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

You give a shortbow to a power vindi/herald, he can sit in dome for 20 seconds and still spam seven shot/bloodbane. That is an absolute hard counter to physical ranged, they will have to run away, or get inside dome. If they get inside dome they have burned dodges and likely some defences, you then just spam dodge twise, swap to swords/alliance, hit meld spam another 2 dodges, and you also have full energy to burn on dps as you don't need to close the gap. The dome is also a combo field, auto attacks will clense any condi dmg from other ranged attackers in applicable situations. If you see 3 physical ranged in ranked, swap to cent and you win. Thats before the fact that cent explode got a big buff, its a knockback that gives you a heal+stability. Thats worth using even if there are no physical ranged, you get access to clense/heal/stun/stability, while the cent stun also sets off some crit/dmg traits from invocation, and you have a ranged weapon so that you don't need energy to close the gap on none physical ranged, the ranged 2 and 3 are very cheap on enrgy meaning you can spam some heals/protenction/stability and still do good dmg. Shortbow takes away vindi/herlads key weakness, you can burn energy on dps rather than gap closers, or, use gap closers to get away from the likes of SB, and then do ranged dmg.

but rene already can use sb and ventary, and has sb trait. is it destroying pvp right now?

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

but rene already can use sb and ventary, and has sb trait. is it destroying pvp right now?

Ren is a 1 trick pony, do lots of dmg, melt in 10 seconds if you can't escape. Vindi traits have a hell of a lot more staying power and deterents when people are in melee range, unlike ren. Who wants to eat 3 vindi dodges in a row? and if they dodge your dodges then you can land bow strikes or knockdown, its win win. I personally use shield dodge+sanctuary+resil spirit, it eats up so much dmg along with all the other vindi/cent healing+more shield, that people give up attacking me. This would only upscale, duo shortbow vindi would be putting out considerable condi dmg while being nion unkillable 2v3, given stability chaining, explodes, overlapping healing/shielding and poison clense. It would also mess with condi cata in a number of ways.

[Shao.7236]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Ren is a 1 trick pony, do lots of dmg, melt in 10 seconds if you can't escape. Vindi traits have a hell of a lot more staying power and deterents when people are in melee range, unlike ren. Who wants to eat 3 vindi dodges in a row? and if they dodge your dodges then you can land bow strikes or knockdown, its win win. I personally use shield dodge+sanctuary+resil spirit, it eats up so much dmg along with all the other vindi/cent healing+more shield, that people give up attacking me. This would only upscale, duo shortbow vindi would be putting out considerable condi dmg while being nion unkillable 2v3, given stability chaining, explodes, overlapping healing/shielding and poison clense. It would also mess with condi cata in a number of ways.

Renegade damage was only good because they didn't nerf Sevenshot by the promised 20% every skills should have gotten at the time it was reworked as a target skill. (Btw some skills still haven't)

The rest all came from speed runes being too good and yet that's the last thing they had nerfed after gutting everything else when many said prior that's all that really kept Renegade alive so easily.

 

[Shagie.7612]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Renegade damage was only good because they didn't nerf Sevenshot by the promised 20% every skills should have gotten at the time it was reworked as a target skill. (Btw some skills still haven't)

 

It didn't get nerfed in the Feb 2020 patch, but it did get hit later down the line by ~20% in October 2020. It still made it there eventually.
They've since bumped it back up slightly, but it hasn't done much to help.

Renegade traits are pretty underwhelming and offer you very little sustain and less damage through modifiers than vindicator gets.
Vindi also gives you some really good stunbreaks via Reaver's Rage/Awakening.

Personally, I don't wanna go back to running around spamming 111 with Impossible Odds/Hammers up like it did for a bit, but shortbow having good power coefficients makes it really good for that.

I was really excited for the weaponmaster change, and it's objectively a buff to a shortbow build which is cool I guess, but after playing, it's not a great feeling for the entirety of Renegade to be almost completely obsolete. The piercing trait is the only thing that you can't get better of elsewhere. That's pretty lame.

Citadel Bombardment is cool, it deserves to see some play sometimes.

 

[Shao.7236]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:02 AM, Shagie.7612 said:

It didn't get nerfed in the Feb 2020 patch, but it did get hit later down the line by ~20% in October 2020. It still made it there eventually.
They've since bumped it back up slightly, but it hasn't done much to help.

It definitely was for mention however that Renegade wasn't overperforming for the reasons that people though. After shaving the damage (Which was needed by 2020 rule) rune of speed still made them untouchable, they shaved the sustain, still untouchable. Nerfed Rune of speed? Then all of the sudden it's out of the meta. The sustain didn't need to be touched which hurt core in the end.

I can understand why they took away the 2 stack overtime from Inspiring Reinforcement but the initial stab should have remained 2 seconds since it takes that long for the stability to kick in, right now you can't outplay people properly because it's so unreliable if you use it at the right time. It's not the only thing they broke about road either by the way, the AOE is not even at player level anymore, you can't projectile finish with it unless you shoot at an angle relative to the AOE.

Then we don't talk about Forced Engagement unnecessary changes while I do which they'd fix hammer skill 2 inconsistencies.

[Burnfall.9573]

On 7/1/2023 at 2:50 PM, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Weapon mastery was a mistake and will be a long term balancing nightmare. People would've been coped enough knowing new core weapons were coming.

Exactly....

Balance is already out of control...

Anet solution; Make It Worse....

Edited July 6, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Arheundel.6451]

15 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

It definitely was for mention however that Renegade wasn't overperforming for the reasons that people though. After shaving the damage (Which was needed by 2020 rule) rune of speed still made them untouchable, they shaved the sustain, still untouchable. Nerfed Rune of speed? Then all of the sudden it's out of the meta. The sustain didn't need to be touched which hurt core in the end.

I can understand why they took away the 2 stack overtime from Inspiring Reinforcement but the initial stab should have remained 2 seconds since it takes that long for the stability to kick in, right now you can't outplay people properly because it's so unreliable if you use it at the right time. It's not the only thing they broke about road either by the way, the AOE is not even at player level anymore, you can't projectile finish with it unless you shoot at an angle relative to the AOE.

Then we don't talk about Forced Engagement unnecessary changes while I do which they'd fix hammer skill 2 inconsistencies.

Somehow you'd think a spec with pulsing stability, dmg reduction skills, anti projectile  bubble on heal....would be considered OP by normal standards. A build that can duel, support and teamfight....a tournament won by using 3 variants of the same spec....you'd think that would be considered OP and needing nerfs. I mean majority of  GW2 players and tournament players especially only use the most overperfroming builds at all times.....and when 1 x class represents 5 x players out of 10 at a final....you'd think people would admit the spec is OP...