A problem with everyone having skyscales

[Witch Engine.2305]

A problem that I see with this is that it makes other mounts almost obsolete, very specifically the bunny. The bunny still has advantages but it's slowly being outclassed by the skyscale, a mount that can move in all six degrees while scaling, will be able to shoot fire balls in multiple ways, and then on top of all that we will be able to mount in combat.

I don't think the solution is to somehow try to buff the bunny in a way that it outclasses the skyscale I think a better solution is to have the bunny mount synergize between the two. Perhaps create a mastery that allows it to initiate a more poweful version of it's attack if dropped from a certain height from skyscale or griffon, or some kind of ability that will launch the player into flight at a pretty respectable height, something far more useful than Bond of Faith.

Clearly this is not a priority issue, but its something I think is worth considering down the line. All the other mounts are great and still usesful, I still use the bunny for it's attack but really that's all I use it for. I think the bunny mount could be more interesting that's all, and having cross mount abilities might be cool while keeping older mounts relevant in ever changing content.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Witch Engine.2305

[Batalix.2873]

If players are only incentivized to buy HoT/PoF for the Revenant, and gliding and mounts aren't really selling points anymore, I think that is a problem. Goes beyond the bunny.

[vares.8457]

Why is this a problem? You can still use the bunny if you want to and it is still good if you need fast CC. 

[Cuks.8241]

In my opinion Skyscale should be nerfed. But thats a very unpopular opinion, it will never happen. 

Anyway I just hope it doesnt get buffed too much with new masteries but it seems they are buffing it in areas that wont interfere with others mount's strengths. 

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

1 hour ago, Witch Engine.2305 said:

A problem that I see with this is that it makes other mounts almost obsolete

That's not really news. The Skyscale already makes all other mounts obsolete except the Warclaw for WvW and the Skiff for fishing. You could maybe argue that the Skimmer still has a role in underwater content, but there is not really much of that anyways.

Personally, I assume that ANet's internal metrics about player conversion and retention most likely show that a lot of folks stop participating in open world content without the Skyscale and/or that many players stop playing during the acquisition of the Skyscale. From my own experience of playing on a fully upgraded alt-account, it feels harder to get to the collection part than the collection itself since barely anyone goes to the LWS4 maps anymore. 

[AgentMoore.9453]

The Skyscale can do a lot of things moderately well, but the other mounts can do specific things very well, and that's why people will continue to use them even though the skychonker is an option. There's also the matter of how the mounts move and what skins are available for them which influences more people's usage decisions than you might think.

You know what Springer could really use? A crash test helmet.

As for buffing other mounts, I think you're likely to see additional abilities added to existing mounts which, to be clear, is great. Why crowd the UI with 50 mount buttons when you can distribute 50 new functions between the 9 mounts we already have? They've already started doing this with a few of them (and with some masteries for all of them, like stealth), so I see no reason why they wouldn't continue.

[Anvar.5673]

The new mini-expansion is a fully aerial one so I guess they didn't had a lot of choice for this time. It was a game design choice to push the limits of the game a little further and it will benefit for everything else old and new. On top of that, they will be able to get more money with skyscale skins.

[Redfeather.6401]

Maybe the bunny can get a new skill like the skimmer did. There's space on their hotbar! 😲

[Anvar.5673]

Just now, Redfeather.6401 said:

Maybe the bunny can get a new skill like the skimmer did. There's space on their hotbar! 😲

I agree that they should give wings to bunnies to go from floating islands to floating islands.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

11 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

The new mini-expansion is a fully aerial one so I guess they didn't had a lot of choice for this time. It was a game design choice to push the limits of the game a little further and it will benefit for everything else old and new. On top of that, they will be able to get more money with skyscale skins.

Considering that some folks already reported in these forums that the new expansion only comes with the Skyscale when purchased on its own and doesn't even include the basic Raptor (unlike EoD), I guess the light version of the Skyscale has to be given away after the intro or the streamlined acquisition part can be done on foot.

Do you really think that everyone in this game is a whale dumping silly amounts of money into overpriced skins? 

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

I fail to see how the skyscale made all other mounts obsolete. It is my least used mount

I know from memory about 7 Beetle Guilds
I know from memory at least 12 Griffon Guild.
I know of NO dedicated Skyscale Guilds

It is so extremely underwhelming and only good to get up high, other than that... Griffon rules the Sky, not the Skyscale (despite the title being linked to skyscale, go figure)

Edited July 4, 2023 by Tuna Bandit.3786
Typo

[Doragor.2749]

Who else has discount Aurene skin for Skyscale?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

4 hours ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

Considering that some folks already reported in these forums that the new expansion only comes with the Skyscale when purchased on its own and doesn't even include the basic Raptor (unlike EoD), I guess the light version of the Skyscale has to be given away after the intro or the streamlined acquisition part can be done on foot.

Do you really think that everyone in this game is a whale dumping silly amounts of money into overpriced skins? 

How would anyone know which Mounts are usuable in SotO, since it has yet to be released?

[AgentMoore.9453]

1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

How would anyone know which Mounts are usuable in SotO, since it has yet to be released?

Responses from support staff to tickets people have filed. They've said if all you have on your account is SotO, you'll have access to Skyscale through the new acquisition method, but you will not receive a Raptor like you would for accounts that own any of the other expansions. Given that we've seen no advertising telling us 'you'll be able to get your very own Springer, Jackal, etc.' in SotO, it's probably safe to assume Skyscale is the only one you'd be able to unlock if SotO is the only expansion you have.*

Incidentally, ticket responses are also how we know that if you only buy SotO, you won't get access to the Revenant class either. Either that and the Raptor thing are oversights, or it's intended. That's the only part we won't know until release - unless the support staff are straight up wrong.

* Barring any changes between now and release.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm not sure that response from the CS Team is accurate, since they state the only way to acquire a Raptor is through Path of Fire.

Sadly, the CS Team is not always up-to-date.  🤷‍♂️

[Mungrul.9358]

12 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

In my opinion Skyscale should be nerfed. But thats a very unpopular opinion, it will never happen.

I've thought the same for a very long time, so you have at least one person who agrees with you.

I'd suggest maybe decreasing the Skyscale's maximum speed a tiny amount, or reducing how high it can initially fly so that the Bunny's jump is notably higher, meaning that at the very least, you promote starting with bunny then transitioning to Skyscale.

I would also suggest maybe slightly shortening the depth of dive required to attain full speed on the Griffin to promote wider use of it over the Skyscale, and maybe add an initial "launch" skill from the Bunny that gets the Griffin high enough to start "flying" through it's dive/ascend cycle.

Keep the Skyscale's overall general-purpose feel, but make mounts that are currently in danger of being invalidated by it better at what they do so that they're the obvious choice to make in scenarios that play to their strengths.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Mungrul.9358
mayber is not a word.

[Mungrul.9358]

Actually, thinking more about the Bunny in particular, I think a couple of changes might make it more viable again and lower the impact the Skyscale has on its utility:

1: The default, non-charged jump should have double-jump capability, where hitting jump again a second time would go a bit higher. Not as high as a charged jump of course, but this would definitely improve the mount.

2: Allow the bunny to move while charging its jump. At the moment, you have to stop to perform a charged jump;. Charging while moving would make for smoother travel and allow players to charge jumps pre-emptively.

I could even see that adding this kind of skill-based functionality could also open up the possibility of Bunny-specific races, with hoops to jump through at different heights.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Mungrul.9358

[Luthan.5236]

I don't see this as a big problem. The game gives more content - to keep veterans happy. New players should still have an option to catch up. Getting a convenient mount pretty early/fast ... can help here. Even in older guildes people suggested to get the raptor early - even for people that wanted to play (and unlock stuff) in order of release.

The complaints about "I had to do a lot of work for it" are also not valid. Similarly weird to the people complaining about rune changes. We had to to more work ... but we also had longer to enjoy the Skyscale and to use it. People that only get it later ... only have it from that point on. If a vetearan and a new player would continue tot play the same amount of time until the game shut down ... veteran obviously had a few more years from before the new player joined.

Also for the masteries people might still want to to the old skyscale collectoin - that mastery line probably is still tied to it. (If you want to max out your mastery rank.)

Old mounts already get less relevant with the existing skyscale. I only could see them adding restricted stuff ... to counter this. Aventures where only those mounts can be used. Or special maps. For mounts/gliding some JP already have mounts blocked but glliding not. I think. (The EoD ... one in Seitung - uses a special mechanics where you have to carry the torch. Mount not blocked. But you can't use if if you want to keep your torch. Gliding works.)

An interesting possibility for a restriction would be to make the skyscale from SotO a magical version (people with the normal Skyscale should consider their version upgraded with magic) ... that only can be used in that maps. Technically probably a bigger deal to implement though. And I assume the general intention was to give away the Skyscale easier - so it can help new players to catch up faster (also by moving more convenient in older/other maps). Not making the new maps super reliant on having a flying mount to complete them.

[Sindust.7059]

15 hours ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

I assume that ANet's internal metrics about player conversion and retention most likely show that a lot of folks stop participating in open world content without the Skyscale

This is especially frustrating when following big groups that nuke the bosses down in seconds. Before I got my skyscale, on some maps I just gave up and did something else. It wouldn't surprise me if I'm not the only one. But then again in some cases only beetle or griffon are fast enough to make it in time (for example the post-meta bonus bosses in Dragonfall or Drizzlewood Coast).

[enigmatic.3576]

18 hours ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

The Skyscale already makes all other mounts obsolete except the Warclaw for WvW and the Skiff for fishing.

This is like saying that celestial makes all other stats combinations (e.g. berserkers, diviners, etc) obsolete.

[Ashantara.8731]

18 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

It is so extremely underwhelming and only good to get up high, other than that...

Only the people who have not mastered the Skyscale yet would claim such nonsense.

It's might not the "most fun" mount, but it is the best mount in the game for 98% of all content.
 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[enigmatic.3576]

7 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Only the people who have not mastered the Skyscale yet would claim such nonsense.

It's might not the "most fun" mount, but it is the best mount in the game for 98% of all content.
 

It's not.  The "best mount" is actually using a combination of the mounts based on the situation and their strengths.

[vares.8457]

16 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

but it is the best mount in the game for 98% of all content.
 

Nonsense, the best mount is a combination of several mounts.
Thinking that skyscale is the best mount for 98% of all content just shows that you don’t know how to handle the other mounts. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by vares.8457

[Ashantara.8731]

13 minutes ago, enigmatic.3576 said:

It's not.  The "best mount" is actually using a combination of the mounts based on the situation and their strengths.

That's your opinion. Mine obviously differs. The convenience the Skyscale provides allows you to get everywhere faster than by constantly swapping mounts.

The only mounts I swap to on occasion are the Griffon, the Skimmer and the Rollerbeetle. And very rarely the Jackal. Raptor and Springer are ignorable (I only use the Springer to cheese some JPs when they are up for dailies).

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Batalix.2873]

57 minutes ago, enigmatic.3576 said:

It's not.  The "best mount" is actually using a combination of the mounts based on the situation and their strengths.

If the game made quickly swapping mounts easier I would agree with that.

As it stands, Skyscale is the Mechanist of the mounts. Not really great at a lot of things, but generally good enough at everything without needing much investment/engagement on the part of the player. So of course once someone gets Skyscale they are more likely to just use that.