Mob difficulty core tyria vs expansions

[Sewedir.3027]

Heya,

So yesterday I went to Heart of Thorns expansions areas and i got totally obliterated by the mobs there.

So I have no problems with mobs at core Tyria when I went to the HoT area I noticed a huge difficulty spike to the mobs' damage etc.

Is it something natural when it comes to expansions?

Thanks for the info,

Cheers,

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

The difficult jump from core to expansion is quite high, but not much difference in difficulty in between the expansions. HoT maps are quite hard, but not harder then the other expansions. If you adjusted to HoT via skill, gear or build, you will be fine in the other expansion maps too.

[SuavePuppy.2809]

I know a pocket raptor victim when I see one

[Fueki.4753]

46 minutes ago, SuavePuppy.2809 said:

I know a pocket raptor victim when I see one

Maybe it was the Mordrem Sniper lines.

But yes, HoT is several staircases (not just steps) up from the core game difficulty. All expansions are that way, but HoT can be a particular shocking spike. Season 2 can ease players a bit into what to expect next, but there's a pay gate to that.

HoT used to be even more of a leap though.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

HoT used to be even more of a leap though.

Indeed, on release it was significantly more challenging!

[jason.1083]

 

3 hours ago, Sewedir.3027 said:

Heya,

So yesterday I went to Heart of Thorns expansions areas and i got totally obliterated by the mobs there.

So I have no problems with mobs at core Tyria when I went to the HoT area I noticed a huge difficulty spike to the mobs' damage etc.

Is it something natural when it comes to expansions?

Thanks for the info,

Cheers,

 

You'll get used to it, you'll learn their patterns and what hits you should be avoiding. The leap from core to expansions is quite big. But the difficulty of the mobs along with the vertical progression is kind of the beauty of it. It doesn't matter if you've been playing for 10 or 10k hours, if you're not careful an Elite Mordrem Punisher will still hit you for 25k damage and insta-down you (happened to me a couple days ago). 

In conclusion, yes it's natural. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by jason.1083

[Khisanth.2948]

Do people just skip LS2/LS2 maps?

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

The difficult jump from core to expansion is quite high, but not much difference in difficulty in between the expansions. HoT maps are quite hard, but not harder then the other expansions. If you adjusted to HoT via skill, gear or build, you will be fine in the other expansion maps too.

It's not your imagination.  There is definitely a significant jump in difficulty between core and expansion content.  However, you also gain some power yourself in the form of elite specs.  What class are you playing?  I'm sure the forum nerds can suggest a great build that will make your life a lot easier!

[SlayerXX.7138]

33 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's not your imagination.  There is definitely a significant jump in difficulty between core and expansion content.  However, you also gain some power yourself in the form of elite specs.  What class are you playing?  I'm sure the forum nerds can suggest a great build that will make your life a lot easier!

I'm fine with OW, but i know it is hard. Just because i can face roll it doesn't mean i can't acknowledge how steep the difficult jump is. Especially for a newcomer who goes directly from Core to HoT and didn't have the time to "train" and gear up like the veterans who did it as current content. Did you mean to quote op?

Edited July 8, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138

[AliamRationem.5172]

19 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Dude I'm fine with OW, but i know it is hard. Just because i can face roll it doesn't mean i can't acknowledge how steep the difficult jump is. Especially for a newcomer who goes directly from Core to HoT and didn't have the time to "train" and gear up like the veterans who did it as current content. Did you mean to quote op?

Sorry, yes, I did mean to quote OP. 

[Fueki.4753]

33 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Do people just skip LS2/LS2 maps?

Apparently, quite a few people do that. They play the core story, buy the expansions and go on to play the expansions without buying (and playing) living world episodes.

Now and again, there are threads about people being confused and/or displeased regarding how living world content is being handled/sold.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Sewedir.3027]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Apparently, quite a few people do that. They play the core story, buy the expansions and go on to play the expansions without buying (and playing) living world episodes.

Now and again, there are threads about people being confused and/or displeased regarding how living world content is being handled/sold.

I did that because HoT hero challenges offer 10 points instead of 1.

6 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

 

You'll get used to it, you'll learn their patterns and what hits you should be avoiding. The leap from core to expansions is quite big. But the difficulty of the mobs along with the vertical progression is kind of the beauty of it. It doesn't matter if you've been playing for 10 or 10k hours, if you're not careful an Elite Mordrem Punisher will still hit you for 25k damage and insta-down you (happened to me a couple days ago). 

In conclusion, yes it's natural. 

I already have a full set of exotic gear with 3 ascended pieces aka rings and an amulet. I was expecting rollover mobs. Since that is natural if I wanted to compare this game to other MMOs. When I changed from my regular guardian to dragon hunter I noticed an increase in damage.

[jason.1083]

3 hours ago, Sewedir.3027 said:

I already have a full set of exotic gear with 3 ascended pieces aka rings and an amulet. I was expecting rollover mobs. Since that is natural if I wanted to compare this game to other MMOs. When I changed from my regular guardian to dragon hunter I noticed an increase in damage.

Even with full ascended you can get one shot by mobs, some of them just do a lot of damage, especially if they're scaled by an event. Another example would be the Svanir Brutes in Bitterfrost Frontier, even as Veterans and without any scaling can do up to about 20k damage in 1 hit if you're standing close enough. 

So as you asked it's natural, getting used to it includes learning those paterns, so you'll know what they're most likely to do first when you agro them abd what their follow up will be. And obviously some mobs are better than others against specific builds, with missile reflects, boon stealing and stuff like that. 

As a Guardian or any of it's specs you should have decent survivability, imagine if you played something that was actually squishy by design. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

15 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Maybe it was the Mordrem Sniper lines.

But yes, HoT is several staircases (not just steps) up from the core game difficulty. All expansions are that way, but HoT can be a particular shocking spike. Season 2 can ease players a bit into what to expect next, but there's a pay gate to that.

HoT used to be even more of a leap though.

No pay-gate to Season Two's maps, though.

[Gazrul.3086]

Yes, HoT is a significant difficulty spike from the core game. It used to be even harder though, I think pocket raptors killed more players than any other mob in the game. Pesky little things...

[Xperiment.6923]

OP I had similar problem or...normal problem going from the Free base game to HoT. I stuck it out in HoT till I unlocked gliding then I headed to PoF. Mobs still hit hard but maps are way easier to get the hang of IMO. If you unlocked your 1st 3 PoF mounts raptor, springer, skimmer then head back to HoT. Maps will be way easier. Also trash mobs are relentless in xps. They drop huge dmg GTAoE's all stacked on eachother. Gotta constantly dodge/roll, run out and reposition.

If you have EoD and want an easier time and still pick up 10 hero pts per node start there. I think there is even an alternative way to get gliding in there. EoD is the 1st xp I run all my alts to unlock elites.

1 more common mistake...If you play your new elite spec without unlocking all your skills ..it will be a hard time. Better to run 3 core traitlines till you rack up enough hero points to unlock all your elite spec.

[Smoky.5348]

Yeah, HoT is still overtuned. A majority of the enemies hit ridiculously hard for no reason other than the encounter designers not knowing how to make a difficult mob, and they all have some other bogus going on. Bristleback shoots projectiles for a solid eight seconds. The Hylek have multi-projectile attacks, too, but theirs have less projectiles but hit even harder.  Smokescale rapidly teleport-attacks you with nigh-perfect accuracy and can dodge infinitely if it doesn't walk. Vile Thrashers can attack you from anywhere and repeatedly hit you for more than five seconds. Pocket Raptors are supposed to be weak, but two of them hit as hard as one basic Core Tyria enemy (and they come in almost a dozen or more than a dozen). Several enemies draw a line on the ground that's really hard to see until you train yourself to look for it. And, there's no doubt more that l'm forgetting.

None of that is good enemy design. It feels like it expects you to never be off cooldown, which is clearly impossible.

[Fueki.4753]

49 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

No pay-gate to Season Two's maps, though.

And those two maps generally aren't harder than core maps. And the few champions and bosses that technically are one step up, are usually mowed down quickly due to powercreep. The last time I did the Silverwastes meta, not one boss lasted longer than (what felt like) 20 seconds.

But the story parts of Season 2 have a few encounters that are a step up in direction of HoT that could prepare players a bit for the encounters in expansions.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Kastagir.2146]

On 7/8/2023 at 7:55 AM, Sewedir.3027 said:

Heya,

So yesterday I went to Heart of Thorns expansions areas and i got totally obliterated by the mobs there.

So I have no problems with mobs at core Tyria when I went to the HoT area I noticed a huge difficulty spike to the mobs' damage etc.

Is it something natural when it comes to expansions?

Thanks for the info,

Cheers,

 

You can thank the hardcore player base for that. Like in every mmo when some player hit the max level they complain on the forums that the game needs to be harder.

[Manpag.6421]

23 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Do people just skip LS2/LS2 maps?

As someone who started playing the game well after LS2, yes. For a long time there was a huge section of missing story from LS1 anyway, so what’s another chunk? Might as well pick the story up from HoT and read a synopsis if you’re bothered.

RIBA keeps Silverwastes alive, but Dry Top is dull and dead except when it’s a daily. When I was considering buying LS2, it seemed like there were barely any story rewards worth the money, compared to the massive amount of content you get in LS3/4. Is there anything that’s actually worth paying for, given that everyone gets access to the maps for free anyway?

[Randulf.7614]

You will yearn for the snipers and pocket raptors when you get to PoFs condition spamming Awakened or the Forged who will literally aggro from 5 miles across the deepest desert to fight you

[Jin.8501]

13 hours ago, Smoky.5348 said:

Yeah, HoT is still overtuned. A majority of the enemies hit ridiculously hard for no reason other than the encounter designers not knowing how to make a difficult mob, and they all have some other bogus going on. Bristleback shoots projectiles for a solid eight seconds. The Hylek have multi-projectile attacks, too, but theirs have less projectiles but hit even harder.  Smokescale rapidly teleport-attacks you with nigh-perfect accuracy and can dodge infinitely if it doesn't walk. Vile Thrashers can attack you from anywhere and repeatedly hit you for more than five seconds. Pocket Raptors are supposed to be weak, but two of them hit as hard as one basic Core Tyria enemy (and they come in almost a dozen or more than a dozen). Several enemies draw a line on the ground that's really hard to see until you train yourself to look for it. And, there's no doubt more that l'm forgetting.

None of that is good enemy design. It feels like it expects you to never be off cooldown, which is clearly impossible.

No it's nice. Could be even harder. Not everything has to be easy always. Spend some time learning and overcome the obstacles 

[AliamRationem.5172]

13 hours ago, Smoky.5348 said:

Yeah, HoT is still overtuned. A majority of the enemies hit ridiculously hard for no reason other than the encounter designers not knowing how to make a difficult mob, and they all have some other bogus going on. Bristleback shoots projectiles for a solid eight seconds. The Hylek have multi-projectile attacks, too, but theirs have less projectiles but hit even harder.  Smokescale rapidly teleport-attacks you with nigh-perfect accuracy and can dodge infinitely if it doesn't walk. Vile Thrashers can attack you from anywhere and repeatedly hit you for more than five seconds. Pocket Raptors are supposed to be weak, but two of them hit as hard as one basic Core Tyria enemy (and they come in almost a dozen or more than a dozen). Several enemies draw a line on the ground that's really hard to see until you train yourself to look for it. And, there's no doubt more that l'm forgetting.

None of that is good enemy design. It feels like it expects you to never be off cooldown, which is clearly impossible.

Disagree that this is poor design (except for the smokescale blind field).  I could describe multiple methods for handling all of these enemies, but it's not going to convince you.  Just wanted to say I love HoT design all-around and wish they still designed maps that way.

[Dawdler.8521]

Core dps specs did what, like 15-20K? Yeah we're up to 40K+ nowadays. It's not so much that mob "difficulty" spiked as it was keeping them interesting to fight because of Anet doubling down on power creep.

[jason.1083]

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Disagree that this is poor design (except for the smokescale blind field).  I could describe multiple methods for handling all of these enemies, but it's not going to convince you.  Just wanted to say I love HoT design all-around and wish they still designed maps that way.

I wouldn't even say that the smoke field is a bad design. Really the only bad thing in terms of how mobs work in the game imo is that they get invulnerable once they're out of their patrol range, so you can have situations where they agro on you, come over, attack once and then run away with invulnerability. 

Which is obviously not a mechanic of specific enemies rather than how the game works, but it's the only really annoying thing. 

I think it's fine for Mordrem Punishers or Svanir Brutes to oneshot, or smokescales have as much dodging and blinding capacity as they do because they are supposed to be difficult and annoying like that maybe except the part where they can do their chain attacks when you're on a flying mount above them and dismount you while you can literally do nothing about it. And to add to that I'll point my finger to the canids, because when they borrow themselves to attack you from underneath they essentially tether themselves to you and have infinite range, you can mount up in the meantime and travel across the map and they will still come out from the ground underneath you.