Relics Bring New Equipment to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Peter.3901]

Unpinning the topic will not solve the issue...

Edited August 2, 2023 by Peter.3901

[Hotride.2187]

Logged in to craft the 7th rune (thanks, vague studio PR statements). Last thing I do ingame until the legendary rune collection is available. Cheers.

[Swoo.5079]

On 7/27/2023 at 6:12 PM, Peter.3901 said:

Still, significant progress is not enough.

I think the fact that legendary relics aren't coming with the xpac release is the worse part, for 2 reasons.

First because you can't just craft it and regain all functionality - you have to go for an extended period of time with lesser QoL and spending resources unnecessarily.

Second it seems like a legendary relics might have not been on the cards. That is would be the second system after Jade Bots (well I guess third since aqua breathers) without legendary option.

The legendary armoury was one of the best updates to the game. I hope Anet aren't regretting it.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Swoo.5079

[Bookah pls.9352]

The worst part is Ruby dodging the multiple times asked question about if legendary relics are being locked behind the expansion paywall meaning legendary rune holders are having to pay real money to continue to enjoy a qol they had prior to the expansion and then unpinning the topic with complete radio silence.

[Omega.6801]

The more I think about it, the more I think this was a mistake. The whole Relic thing is unneccessary. Why change what works? If you see players having problems understanding the current system, tutorialise it better. Players who had mismatching runes, will still have mismatching runes and will probably have a mismatching relic on top. And the more I think about it like that, the less I believe that this was actually the reason.
Are Relics just introduced to artificially stack playtime? Like all the other MMOs where each expansion has a gimmick that makes last expansions gimmick worthless? Is this the way we are going with this? I mean lots of things are imaginable. What if they took away 50% of the stats from armor but introduced belts as a new asscessory that holds 50% of the stats armor used to have? Is this where this is going? I would like to know. @Rubi Bayer.8493 does this mean that ANet has abandoned horizontal progression? Will we have to deal with this every expansion from now on?
(I know that there has been vertical progression in the game like masteries or the jade bot, but so far these were pure additions. With the relic system we see vertical progression at the cost of something for the first time so let's not talk semantics plox.)

[Ashantara.8731]

5 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

Is this the way we are going with this? I mean lots of things are imaginable. What if they took away 50% of the stats from armor but introduced belts as a new asscessory that holds 50% of the stats armor used to have? Is this where this is going?

Don't give them any ideas! 😅

[Omega.6801]

2 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Don't give them any ideas! 😅

I don't have to. This sort of greedy nonsensical bs has existed in MMOs for decades. It's just that ANet up until SotO has decided to not go down that route.

[Acheron.1580]

12 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

The more I think about it, the more I think this was a mistake. The whole Relic thing is unneccessary. Why change what works? If you see players having problems understanding the current system, tutorialise it better. Players who had mismatching runes, will still have mismatching runes and will probably have a mismatching relic on top. And the more I think about it like that, the less I believe that this was actually the reason.
Are Relics just introduced to artificially stack playtime? Like all the other MMOs where each expansion has a gimmick that makes last expansions gimmick worthless? Is this the way we are going with this? I mean lots of things are imaginable. What if they took away 50% of the stats from armor but introduced belts as a new asscessory that holds 50% of the stats armor used to have? Is this where this is going? I would like to know. @Rubi Bayer.8493 does this mean that ANet has abandoned horizontal progression? Will we have to deal with this every expansion from now on?
(I know that there has been vertical progression in the game like masteries or the jade bot, but so far these were pure additions. With the relic system we see vertical progression at the cost of something for the first time so let's not talk semantics plox.)

I don't think it was about pitfalls that players make by mismatching runes, it was that there are a lot of runes that are not used at all because the meta dictates which ones are useful, and it mostly revolves around the 6 piece bonus. Going forward you will still have meta runes, and you will definitely have meta relics too, but I feel like the goal was a really flawed attempt at trying to make things less rigid by opening up options. Ironically it follows on the same problems they had with the balance patch where spreadsheets don't make for engaging game play. You'll probably still see scholar as the go to dps rune, but now you will have to find a new relic that is going to be meta. It's just extra steps and more crafting that leads to the same end point.

AKA: Bloat for the sake of increasing perceived value, because this expansion is looking pretty thin. Whether they are spreading everything out over a long period to give the illusion of more content or they simply don't have the staff on hand to finish it before it's released, it leaves a bad taste.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Anvar.5673]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:41 PM, Peter.3901 said:

Unpinning the topic will not solve the issue...

Thinking about it, the reaction of the people here (and mine) was maybe a little too disproportionate.

When we look at it:

• People will get a choice of 3 from 30 relics on each character.
• Players who have the 7 runes will beneficiate of a great progression to craft the legendary relic.
• The runes will keep their stats and the 6th bonus wasn't so awesome on the majority of them.
• The relics will bring more diversity to the game.
• Removing runes in duplicate will add more clarty for most of the players of the game.
• Developers will have more flexibility to enhance and balance all of this.

I think the devs are right to not follow this topic anymore.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Anvar.5673

[Wolfyno.2704]

2 hours ago, Anvar.5673 said:

Thinking about it, the reaction of the people here (and mine) was maybe a little too disproportionate.

When we look at it:

• People will get a choice of 3 from 30 relics on each character.
• Players who have the 7 runes will beneficiate of a great progression to craft the legendary relic.
• The runes will keep their stats and the 6th bonus wasn't so awesome on the majority of them.
• The relics will bring more diversity to the game.
• Removing runes in duplicate will add more clarty for most of the players of the game.
• Developers will have more flexibility to enhance and balance all of this.

I think the devs are right to not follow this topic anymore.

It is more like the feedback doesn't align with their plans and is therefore not useful ... as there is no middle ground. And the reactions are quite appropriate for soto:

- thin expac with quite a lot of reused assets (models, systems, classes..) , lacking in new additions and soulless content.

As for the relics, yea, still better than NOTHING but it still remains a bad deal:

- People won't be able to choose well, especially legendary runes holders, since the Best In Slot stuff needs more testing and more time for fixes.

- Not all will be available on launch.

- That is an extra 2 backpack slots being filled for each character.

- What about the holders of multiple rune sets for each char?

- The 6th rune EFFECT is being removed, what always mattered was that effect.

- The legendary rune was an afterthought that may take between 6 to 18 months to arrive just to recover the lost flexibility.

- Most runes were useful, there were the meta ones then the poor man's ones.

- As for the dev part, it will be a messy cake, they are changing everything at once, and so far their track record proves that they will need more time to make everything work.

 

[Anvar.5673]

2 minutes ago, Wolfyno.2704 said:

It is more like the feedback doesn't align with their plans and is therefore not useful ... as there is no middle ground. And the reactions are quite appropriate for soto:

I understand the concerns but their plans are all mapped out since months and they will do what they planned to, nothing more.

The majority of players who are not on official forums and are happy about the state of the game already buyed the expansion directly from the popup in game.

Some reactions here could be appropriate but the studio's in-game stats and sales figures in real time will mostly influence the decisions.

[Wolfyno.2704]

6 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

I understand the concerns but their plans are all mapped out since months and they will do what they planned to, nothing more.

The majority of players who are not on official forums and are happy about the state of the game already buyed the expansion directly from the popup in game.

Some reactions here could be appropriate but the studio's in-game stats and sales figures in real time will mostly influence the decisions.

Indeed, but some data may hint that:

- The number of players is dwindling (the steam number of players which was never high, to begin with, 8k players, now vacillates between half and a quarter of that number daily even though it has become more accessible now more than ever) plus personally 2 of my guilds over time died. Basically, fails to attract the new and is pushing away the old.

- The "strong reactions" spread quite a lot and can be felt even in build forums, where new players usually look for new builds and as time goes on, the controversial changes seem to increase which divides the community and creates "strong debates" 

[Lycan Nibbler.1567]

So as I understand it, the accounts that Ive worked on getting leg runes for will have some of that functionality taken away without ever being compensated for unless I buy the expansion for each of the accounts because relics will be locked behind that paywall and so "sig progress" towards them will mean nothing. Is that how I am reading it?  I understand slot 6 will be getting a replacement bonus but from what Ive seen, it will be less than currently offered otherwise a relic on top is just more power creep?  If I am wrong here please let me know.

[Astralporing.1957]

15 minutes ago, Lycan Nibbler.1567 said:

So as I understand it, the accounts that Ive worked on getting leg runes for will have some of that functionality taken away without ever being compensated for unless I buy the expansion for each of the accounts because relics will be locked behind that paywall and so "sig progress" towards them will mean nothing. Is that how I am reading it?  I understand slot 6 will be getting a replacement bonus but from what Ive seen, it will be less than currently offered otherwise a relic on top is just more power creep?  If I am wrong here please let me know.

You are pretty much spot on.

[Ashantara.8731]

Nine more days until the "ANet, don't do it!" threads will be replaced by "ANet, how could you?!" threads. 😄

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

I just used the level 80 boost on a character that I got with the new expansion. Because of all my legendaries, I could immediately fully equip him for combat on land. If I'd used it just over a week later, I wouldn't be able to do that.

But sure, the new relic changes won't make any difference to us.

In the meantime, maybe someone could tell me what I should do with my mats. Should I make the 7th rune that I don't have yet? Save them for the relic? Use them on a weapon? The fact that NOBODY can tell me which I should pick based on any concrete information, shows how poorly ANET have communicated these changes. Vague comments, suggestions about directions with no timeframes. Without a proper idea of what the changes are, with details, we're flying blind. It's no wonder we're upset.

[Sereath.1428]

So are all Relics going to be the same "Use x skill to trigger y" gimmicks?

I just noticed that the Zephyrite relic you showed has absolutely nothing to do with the current Zephyrite runes which alot of players enjoy, such as engineers.
Relic = Summon crystals that apply protection and resolution to allies when using an elite skill. Cooldown: 30s
Runes 6th bonus = Superspeed you grant lasts 33% longer. Using an elite skill grants you superspeed for 5 seconds. Cooldown: 10 seconds

What happened there?!

That just makes me think that you are just going to completely delete similar runes such as Runes of Speed: Increase movement speed by 66% when under the effect of swiftness.
Or even things like Antitoxin runes: Incoming condition cleanses remove an additional condition.

My joy for playing this game would actually die if you were to homogenize that many runes to work the same way. I just wouldn't want to continue playing WvW or even Open World if things like Fireworks runes current 6th bonus boons were gone: Gain 6 stacks of might, fury and vigor for 6 seconds while in combat. Triggers every 20 seconds.
Same can be said for Pack runes.

Spamming your elite skill on cd is just bad.
"Not everything will require you to use your elite skill! Others will instead trigger with your heal.☺️"
Wow, so different.
💀

I'm actually holding off on buying the expansion now. Unfortunate.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[C Cspace Cowboy.5903]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:30 AM, Bookah pls.9352 said:

The worst part is Ruby dodging the multiple times asked question about if legendary relics are being locked behind the expansion paywall meaning legendary rune holders are having to pay real money to continue to enjoy a qol they had prior to the expansion and then unpinning the topic with complete radio silence.

The reality is, I will continue to play until such time it becomes a hassle then quit.

Removing a functionality from an item and selling it back by locking it behind an expansion is a scummy thing to do.

I refuse to support any company that does these things, and until I have a certain answer of whether or not I will be required to purchase to regain functionality, I won't spend a single dollar to support ncsoft or arenanet again.

[ugrakarma.9416]

Would be good a relase of full list of so called "relics" i don't think is a good idea have a sensible topic like balance(yes the 6º rune effect is balance) to be a 'surprise'.

The rage will skyrocket.

I don't have lengendaries, but i have 5~6 alts with scholar runes, that is expensive (4g).

also i would be able to combine rune of ogre with scholar effect? rune of ogre 6º bonus is a raw damage increase(4%).

rune of sanctuary don't have 6º stats increase, just the effect 

"Gain a barrier with health equal to 10% of any heals you receive".

rune of traveler dont' have "effect" just stats increase(+25 movement speed, +10% condition duration)

Edited August 16, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416

[Gorem.8104]

On 8/13/2023 at 11:57 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Nine more days until the "ANet, don't do it!" threads will be replaced by "ANet, how could you?!" threads. 😄

We hope really, as if the latter doesn't happen, it just means more people have quit, as most quit without saying anything. 

Its funny how its a sign the games healthy when there's people showing disappointment. 🙂

[Gorem.8104]

8 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

So are all Relics going to be the same "Use x skill to trigger y" gimmicks?

I just noticed that the Zephyrite relic you showed has absolutely nothing to do with the current Zephyrite runes which alot of players enjoy, such as engineers.
Relic = Summon crystals that apply protection and resolution to allies when using an elite skill. Cooldown: 30s
Runes 6th bonus = Superspeed you grant lasts 33% longer. Using an elite skill grants you superspeed for 5 seconds. Cooldown: 10 seconds

What happened there?!

That just makes me think that you are just going to completely delete similar runes such as Runes of Speed: Increase movement speed by 66% when under the effect of swiftness.
Or even things like Antitoxin runes: Incoming condition cleanses remove an additional condition.

My joy for playing this game would actually die if you were to homogenize that many runes to work the same way. I just wouldn't want to continue playing WvW or even Open World if things like Fireworks runes current 6th bonus boons were gone: Gain 6 stacks of might, fury and vigor for 6 seconds while in combat. Triggers every 20 seconds.
Same can be said for Pack Runes.

Spamming your elite skill on cd is just bad.
"Not everything will require you to use your elite skill! Others will instead trigger with your heal.☺️"
💀

I'm actually holding off on buying the expansion now. Unfortunate.

Seen this concern from a lot of people, also myself. Rather disappointed in the ones they showed and how you will need to buy the expac to get access to more... to get access to a feature we already had in the game since its launch what 12 years ago? Runes have been such a staple and I quite often use non meta runes. 
Which we already know with this update we may never see again for the rest of the games life if all these require you to use your heal or elite to proc. 

[Falson.5284]

This whole expansion is starting to feel like it was conceptualized by some suit at ncsoft who has no idea what the game is but knows it sure looks different from all the other games they've made, so they should probably go ahead and just start adding in more of the garbage that plagues modem gaming just to be safe.

[Acheron.1580]

The balance changes since even last year and some of the game directions really do feel like they were made by someone who doesn't understand the game. That being said adding a seasons pass that isn't monetary is oddly jarring, and I would bet real money that someone fought against adding a price tag to it since it adds BLTP skins, etc.

That being said I can't defend relics at all.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Wolfyno.2704]

8 hours ago, Acheron.1580 said:

The balance changes since even last year and some of the game directions really do feel like they were made by someone who doesn't understand the game. That being said adding a seasons pass that isn't monetary is oddly jarring, and I would bet real money that someone fought against adding a price tag to it since it adds BLTP skins, etc.

That being said I can't defend relics at all.

 

The fact that, in an unusual way, they emphasize that in their blog post seems to kind of support that ... the only beef I have with this xpac is the new relic system as it is now.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Wolfyno.2704

[Gorem.8104]

8 hours ago, Wolfyno.2704 said:

The fact that, in an unusual way, they emphasize that in their blog post seems to kind of support that ... the only beef I have with this xpac is the new relic system as it is now.

This is exactly it. If they did this relic system right, we'd not have reached 28 pages and there would be no complaints or criticism. Instead they doing it in a way to sort of beta test it directly on live servers while making us have to work for something again we already have. 

Delay the relic system until its finished, it will go down so much better.