why isnt willbender nerfed in wvw? ​​

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

16 minutes ago, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

The problem with Willbender is that it has sustain, mobility and massive damage, all in one package.

You can replace Willbender word with Teef and it'll still fit the overall descriprtion. Can we delete Teefs now?
Realistically speaking, what difference will be between Core Guardian and Willyblender if you nerf Willyblender beside animation looks?
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the class or be against nerfs, I'm simply curious about what kind of changes you guys propose to make sure that Willyblender won't be Guardian 2.0 and be unique/different compared to Core.

[psizone.8437]

3 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You can replace Willbender word with Teef and it'll still fit the overall descriprtion

I wouldn't say thief had sustain. All their survivability falls under the mobility part of that list.

 

 

4 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Just to be clear, I'm not defending the class or be against nerfs, I'm simply curious about what kind of changes you guys propose to make sure that Willyblender won't be Guardian 2.0 and be unique/different compared to Core.

• Nerf the damage and/or increase the cooldown on Whirling Light.
• Add a small activation time to Judge's Intervention and Symbol of Blades.
• Remove the stability from Crashing Courage.

Those 3 should bring it in line with other specs without completely breaking it.

[Kuya.6495]

4 hours ago, psizone.8437 said:

I wouldn't say thief had sustain. All their survivability falls under the mobility part of that list.

 

 

• Nerf the damage and/or increase the cooldown on Whirling Light.
• Add a small activation time to Judge's Intervention and Symbol of Blades.
• Remove the stability from Crashing Courage.

Those 3 should bring it in line with other specs without completely breaking it.

You mean the stability that only activates when you hit 3 times or the stability from the virtues traitline?

[XenesisII.1540]

9 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

what kind of changes you guys propose to make sure that Willyblender won't be Guardian 2.0 and be unique/different compared to Core.

Willbender mobility already separates them from guardian. In any case elite specs are suppose to allow you to play the class a different way, not as a different class. Willbenders, in fact no profession, should have ever been given the amount of mobility it has, and certainly not without a tradeoff. They went and penalized a spec for having a good dodge for 3 years.

Here's two lovely tradeoffs for their mobility just off the top of my head. I'll take one from their own playbook, they lose a dodge, or they do 25% less damage whenever they use a mobility skill for 2sec. But don't worry, anet apparently doesn't deal with tradeoffs anymore, so this entire discussion is pointless, anet won't touch their golden child class, and they still need to sell eod. Now just need to give them stealth next expansion.

[psizone.8437]

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

You mean the stability that only activates when you hit 3 times or the stability from the virtues traitline?

Nerfing the one built in doesn't interfere with other guardian specs. Give it another boon to compensate.

I'd like them to be more susceptible to CC without completely killing the spec so a small nerf to this would be better in my mind. Nerfing the grandmaster trait might have unintended consequences. 

This, along with my other points, should tone it down without breaking it.

[Kuya.6495]

9 minutes ago, psizone.8437 said:

Nerfing the one built in doesn't interfere with other guardian specs. Give it another boon to compensate.

I'd like them to be more susceptible to CC without completely killing the spec so a small nerf to this would be better in my mind. Nerfing the grandmaster trait might have unintended consequences. 

This, along with my other points, should tone it down without breaking it.

If it's protection, sure. I'm game for removing stability from crashing courage in exchange for protection. Actually, while we're at it. This might be an opportunity to actually make deathless courage useful. Let's put the stability on deathless courage so willbenders might be coaxed from taking something other than tyrants momentum (if they don't take tyrant's momentum they lose about 5% damage at max stacks of lethal tempo).

Edited October 22, 2023 by Kuya.6495

[psizone.8437]

3 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Let's put the stability on deathless courage so willbenders might be coaxed from taking something other than tyrants momentum (if they don't take tyrant's momentum they lose about 5% damage at max stacks of lethal tempo).

I don't feel like Willbender needs more stab though, especially from traits. The 2 utility skills that give stab (people usually take at least 1) and Indominable Courage already give a lot.


I agree that Deathless Courage is pretty useless in WvW though so some kind of rework would be nice. Just no extra stab.

[Gop.8713]

Ten pages of this? Seriously . . ?

It's bc there are now thirty-six specs, which are hopelessly unbalanced. Anet cannot fix this without eliminating the differences between specs, or making the distinctions between them meaningless. There's just too much variety. Even when we had base classes players found exploits when they wanted them . . .

If a player wants to get on a spec that allows them an absurd kdr, wvw allows that. It's jut part of the game. Are you that player? Each player decides that for themselves. I myself run wb through wood every week just for the memes . . .

Bottom line is wvw just doesn't offer a lot of opportunities for solo players, so if a player can't take the ego hit from getting killed they only have a couple of options and tbf maybe it's good that  thief is no longer their only choice . . ?

I'd equate it to enjoying a barbeque. If you have a barbeque, there will be some flies. The flies are not your concern. Enjoy the barbeque . . .

 

[PrinceValentine.9320]

I thought WB's drop like flies after they used up their burst... Not sure what the hype is about. 

[Kuya.6495]

17 minutes ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

I thought WB's drop like flies after they used up their burst... Not sure what the hype is about. 

They do, as well as their mobility, as has always been the case with offensive guardian builds in pvp (same things they use to attack, are the same things they need for defense).

Edited October 23, 2023 by Kuya.6495

[Sonork.2916]

1 hour ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

I thought WB's drop like flies after they used up their burst... Not sure what the hype is about. 

It's just one poster on their crusade to nerf WB who keeps necro'ing this thread.  They think WB is OP, when it's just cele stats that are OP.  Dunno why they single out WB when other cele classes can be much more oppressive, and WB isn't a standout amongst any of them in terms of power.  Guessing they just have a grudge against "blue class" and need an outlet. XD

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/21/2023 at 2:50 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Lol, that's a bs. If there are such options for small groups that means that big groups benefit from it even more. That's just delusional what you wrote.
If you have 2 groups, one is 20 man, other is 40 man, and both groups run same kitten with equal skill level then 40 man wins 100% of times, there's not "zerg-busting" in that type of scenarios ever. It's based on luck what type of enemy you meet and only that. If your 20 man group meets group of 40 bots then your group will win, otherwise it's not happening ever. Your skill cap prevents that if you haven't figured basics yet.

Group composition can make a difference. That does allow for some groups to fight bigger groups that may be more pug related. Just look at the links that people drop on the forums on smaller groups fighting larger. I agree its not as often and do agree numbers matter. But numbers will mater in any case even if we moved to everyone has a stick and two rocks. 

On 10/21/2023 at 2:50 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

False. "Anti-teef" doesn't exist in this game. 

We can agree to disagree here. Not sure your percentage of thieves either. They are out there but not that dominate currently in roaming nor in other scale of play.

On 10/21/2023 at 2:50 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Corruption should not exist, it's a conversion still. There should be more boon removal. You should either apply conditions or remove boons, not both. Risk vs Reward.

We can agree to disagree, I think we could use both more corruption and more boon removal to address the amount of boon spam as groups grow larger. Or look at other options. You keep using risk versus reward but a lot of options you mention translate to me as less risk and the more people you have the more reward. 

[Junkpile.7439]

Yes nerf judges intervention because newest elite spec is broken. How my core guardian kill enemy if you ruin judges intervention? Everybody can see what the problem is. Willbender have too many damage skills and too much mobility. Core guardian do some spin move and leap skill and that is the damage. Willbender keep spamming and spaming damage skills and flee other side of map after that. If some utility skill is broken when elite spec use it put big red cross over it and player can't select it if he use elite spec. You can't use all utilities in water either.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Junkpile.7439

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

8 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Yes nerf judges intervention because newest elite spec is broken. How my core guardian kill enemy if you ruin judges intervention? Everybody can see what the problem is. Willbender have too many damage skills and too much mobility. Core guardian do some spin move and leap skill and that is the damage. Willbender keep spamming and spaming damage skills and flee other side of map after that. If some utility skill is broken when elite spec use it put big red cross over it and player can't select it if he use elite spec. You can't use all utilities in water either.

I don't know, I think it still might be too many people are looking for red rings and miss the Willy smaller shapes since its smaller. I go round and round here, is it the new style of ring or player expecting larger rings. Again fighting and playing, seeing people stand in it, is what makes me reply. The forums seem to be feeding Willy, I don't mind since it pays in bags when fighting them.

Edited October 24, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
Notes

[RaveOnYou.2819]

there is willbender epidemic at all borderlands and ebg. there is no such class kitten this amount and variety of boons without spending boon duration. anet killed catalyst and never touched willbenders. it is unbelieveble. wbs overshadowed thieves in terms roaming with their high mobility and burst.

[TheGrimm.5624]

20 hours ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

there is willbender epidemic at all borderlands and ebg. there is no such class kitten this amount and variety of boons without spending boon duration. anet killed catalyst and never touched willbenders. it is unbelieveble. wbs overshadowed thieves in terms roaming with their high mobility and burst.

 Oh boi, so what server is roamer zerging with Willies? Do you mind sharing?

Edited October 25, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624

[RaveOnYou.2819]

29 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 Oh boi, so what server is roamer zerging with Willies? Do you mind sharing?

in t1 eu matchup fow-gandara-ros. every inch of battle fields consist of willbenders. wvw is not only large scale, 80% people playing wvw wandering around, fight around objectives mindlessly wo caring about in organized group. 

[Kuya.6495]

I think the reason why willbender gets singled out a lot here despite cele harb, cele vindi and cele cata existing is because willbender isn't just good for exploding afk pve camp flippers, but it's also good for nuking boon blobs (if you have a lot of willbenders running marauder in a cloud). So you got two different crowds of people getting their willies bended and they are not too happy about it. 😞

Edited October 25, 2023 by Kuya.6495

[Hins.2489]

dont know why you guys keep crying for so many months about a spec can only roaming and its the only viable spec for roaming on guardian.dont tell me in octobor 2023 still have roamer cant beat a willbender :3 oh my bad you guys are forumer not roamer or you guys just jump into wvw and ppt for weekly/wait for conflux/leggie armor/reward track then got killed by willbender so keep crying on forum?hmm made sense then

[Burnfall.9573]

On 10/23/2023 at 5:29 AM, Gop.8713 said:

Ten pages of this? Seriously . . ?

It's bc there are now thirty-six specs, which are hopelessly unbalanced. Anet cannot fix this without eliminating the differences between specs, or making the distinctions between them meaningless. There's just too much variety. Even when we had base classes players found exploits when they wanted them . . .

If a player wants to get on a spec that allows them an absurd kdr, wvw allows that. It's jut part of the game. Are you that player? Each player decides that for themselves. I myself run wb through wood every week just for the memes . . .

Bottom line is wvw just doesn't offer a lot of opportunities for solo players, so if a player can't take the ego hit from getting killed they only have a couple of options and tbf maybe it's good that  thief is no longer their only choice . . ?

I'd equate it to enjoying a barbeque. If you have a barbeque, there will be some flies. The flies are not your concern. Enjoy the barbeque . . .

 

 

If I was hired as The Design/Balance Leader, I would never tolerate 10 pages to go unresolved.

Anet has been practicing this for years especially with Stealth Mechanics and Thief Profession 

Playing mind games with The Community and having them believe, the more they voice their frustrations on the forums, the more they will listen to them

It's Mind Game and Deceptions at its best 

I wouldn't be surprised if Anet hired a Psychology Team to make sure to keep The Community Delusional and Crazy 

As a Design/Balance Leader, that would be the first department I would target and remove first 

 

To Anet Psychology Team,

The Community and it's players are not a toy. Our feelings are not your playground. Using our feelings for your own Amusement is Toxic and Heartless. 

Enough Already!!

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[RaveOnYou.2819]

1 hour ago, Hins.2489 said:

dont know why you guys keep crying for so many months about a spec can only roaming and its the only viable spec for roaming on guardian.dont tell me in octobor 2023 still have roamer cant beat a willbender :3 oh my bad you guys are forumer not roamer or you guys just jump into wvw and ppt for weekly/wait for conflux/leggie armor/reward track then got killed by willbender so keep crying on fo

haha willbender players are getting look like toxic/pesty thief players of wvw. it also shows me how much i am right.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, RaveOnYou.2819 said:

in t1 eu matchup fow-gandara-ros. every inch of battle fields consist of willbenders. wvw is not only large scale, 80% people playing wvw wandering around, fight around objectives mindlessly wo caring about in organized group. 

Are these 1v1 fights or pug cloud fighting around objectives?

[RaveOnYou.2819]

2 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Are these 1v1 fights or pug cloud fighting around objectives?

1v1 fights, parties with 2-3 willbenders, guildies roaming with thieves/wbs, gank wb squads to pug runners etc. they are at everywhere.

we have already thieves for this kind of play and people already complain about daredevils/deadeyes for years why do we get blue thief who also bring too much boon.

[Tovera.4039]

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

To Anet Psychology Team

If I was hired as The Design/Balance Leader,  

 

 

 

 

 It’s as safe a bet as possible you’ll never have to worry about being hired by any dev team, ever. 

[Sonork.2916]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

If I was hired as The Design/Balance Leader, I would never tolerate 10 pages to go unresolved.

When the same 3 people whine and necro a thread over and over, any thread can get to 10 pages. lol   

It's hard to tell if you and the others constantly posting here are intentionally misleading others on your crusade to nerf guardian, or just honestly haven't figured it out what the actual problem is.

I'll say it again, though it may be pointless since you and the others don't actually care what's making WB strong. 

I'll write it a few times,

Celestial stats are the problem.

Celestial stats are the problem.

Celestial stats are the problem.

Lots of classes are way out of line with celestial stats for roaming and small scale.  WB is one of them,  but it's not WB elite spec that is the actual problem, it's the overkill of stats on celestial gear.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Sonork.2916