why isnt willbender nerfed in wvw? ​​

[Leger.3724]

This is just a bunch of 1v1 heroes whining about what they do to the rest of the playerbase in this game mode, lmao. No sympathy.

"I'm being taken advantage of and I'm not always winning against people specced for zerg, I have to fight other people with 1v1 builds! This is so UNFAIR!"

They need to remove the easy blocks, immunes and stabilities from all these 1v1 builds and then we can talk. Until then I really don't care if a Willbender is dunking on a thief or a ranger.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Leger.3724

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

TheGrimm, I hope you didn't misunderstand me, I fully agree with Loke  🙂 my previous posts says it all. Anet had years and years of history and experiences before releasing Guardian Profession-Willbender in Guild Wars 2. 

Burn, no worries, I have disagreed with a lot of people over time. I try and see their sides when I do. Sometimes it takes me longer to understand the point they make, for lots of reasons ranging from I didn't get it to still I disagree, to good point I am thinking about it wrong. I do dislike when outside factors impact conversations, and try and keep the conversations going so there is some forum dancing involved to allow the conversation.

Loke and I have agreed to disagree a lot, I was happy to see them back since I like the game to keep players and I am not a fan of group think so I, and as others unnamed, like it when not everyone is just going it all bad or all good can say but what if...

You will note, I will grump at you less when you post your own thoughts versus providing a video made by another. Instead provide the key points you agree with and the what why and then link the source. It raises a better point with less question. I don't doubt you post because you like the game and want more, else I wouldn't reply my friend. I am addict of balance, you might see me playing both sides of the fence, since I am not a fan of group think and more of the 'what if' group. 🙂 That said... I do not deny being an old stubborn kitten.  So forgive me when I post way too late at night or seem to come at things from both sides via answering questions with other questions. I will stick with, there is not an easy answer, but ask away....

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
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[captrowdy.9561]

On 7/25/2023 at 1:28 AM, KrHome.1920 said:

And for you that's an acceptable result or what?

Endless resets, staying at 1500 range like some annonying toilet fly, waiting for you to play the game and gank you unless you port back to spawn or keep. I bet ANet lost thousands of players in the last 10 years just because thief exists. And thief's current most degenerated form is deadeye.

Stealth classes been in mmos since the beginning of time. Players complain about these classes in every game. Get over it 

[semak.7481]

I was curiously watching if WB will die to 8 ppl, surprisingly, he didnt, rushed all the way from the tower to his own spawn. Gotta try it out once I'll make legendary armor.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

2 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

I was curiously watching if WB will die to 8 ppl, surprisingly, he didnt, rushed all the way from the tower to his own spawn. Gotta try it out once I'll make legendary armor.

Yeah, yeah and without knowing what build that WB had or if those 8 players had any tools (from build) to prevent that WB to just get past them I don't really believe you. No video and build is like telling that every profession in this game is OP and need to be nerfed into the ground.

Yes I have played WB and yes I have died on my Scrapper to WB in WvW and that doesn't make every WB OP and for what it is worth WB doesn't have stealth or any other tools to get away outside of its normal skills and abilities.

[Burnfall.9573]

15 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

Stealth classes been in mmos since the beginning of time. Players complain about these classes in every game. Get over it 

[Burial.1958]

12 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

This Video is 7 Years old. Stop posting old things burnfall for once. Because now there are sentries, watchtowers, traps, target painters and several classes did get reveal skills.  Also thiefs shadow arts got reworked and he lost on several traits stealth uptime. This is really getting out of hand with you that you everytime post very old vids to actual discussions.

Btw: The thread is about willbender and not stealth.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Burial.1958

[ZenDrake.8316]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:23 PM, captrowdy.9561 said:

Stealth classes been in mmos since the beginning of time. Players complain about these classes in every game. Get over it 

Maybe the whole idea of stealth is just a very toxic design? If this happens in ALL games, then this might be a problematic thing. It just doesn't feel nice to play against this.

[Riba.3271]

They should nerf WB overall power (so only 1 charge of Flowing Resolve in WvW like in PvP), but give them some flexibility by buffing willbender utility skills.  Trolling Light, Thrash Combo and Heavens Palm could all use bigger damage modifiers.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

42 minutes ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

Maybe the whole idea of stealth is just a very toxic design? If this happens in ALL games, then this might be a problematic thing. It just doesn't feel nice to play against this.

First of all: this thread started about Willbender and WB doesn't have any skills that give them Stealth.

Wrote something about Stealth, but it is clear that talking about theif/stealth will only make this thread go even more off topic, so I had to delete that.

WvW have had a lot of changes over time which make Stealth less useful. Read up on Watchtower (from Tactics) and Revealed.

Anyway WB need to run over their target to do damage with their Virtue skills, so they need to put themselves in danger, but the main issues is more from high mobility is also harder to keep track on in how this game make use of camera (at least when using Action Camera). Vindicator is another profession which also make use of some similar mechanic and Mirage did the same where you need to jump or cross your targets path to do most damage (or heal).

[ZenDrake.8316]

5 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

so they need to put themselves in danger

Got a good laugh out of this, thanks. Perma stab and resistance paired with a lot of blocks surely is dangerous.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

5 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

They should nerf WB overall power (so only 1 charge of Flowing Resolve in WvW like in PvP), but give them some flexibility by buffing willbender utility skills.  Trolling Light, Thrash Combo and Heavens Palm could all use bigger damage modifiers.

Most of those Utility skills incl WB Elite skill, Heavens Palm, are rather useless when players can get out of range or you move yourself just to find that you can't make that jump. It is rather hard to keep an enemy player in one place to actually kill that player WB don't have access to Torment or Confusion (both which would work with high mobility from Virtues) from skills which also make it hard to get a kill with only fire and strike damage as main source. It is only when enemy player already have their focus on another player WB can be annoyingly strong to make a kill.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

4 minutes ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

Got a good laugh out of this, thanks. Perma stab and resistance paired with a lot of blocks surely is dangerous.

Have you even played WB yourself?

[Riba.3271]

24 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

37 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

They should nerf WB overall power (so only 1 charge of Flowing Resolve in WvW like in PvP), but give them some flexibility by buffing willbender utility skills.  Trolling Light, Thrash Combo and Heavens Palm could all use bigger damage modifiers.

Most of those Utility skills incl WB Elite skill, Heavens Palm, are rather useless when players can get out of range or you move yourself just to find that you can't make that jump. It is rather hard to keep an enemy player in one place to actually kill that player WB don't have access to Torment or Confusion (both which would work with high mobility from Virtues) from skills which also make it hard to get a kill with only fire and strike damage as main source. It is only when enemy player already have their focus on another player WB can be annoyingly strong to make a kill.

Yes, these skills have never been used and need more damage. They have obvious tradeoffs, one taking elite slot with long cast time, another with obvious setup rolling back and limited time availability, and 3rd one requiring you to stand still. But they dont do damage worthy of the setup, so they aren't worth a skill slot.

If people want to take WBs avaibility to dash around surviving endlessly and do relatively low damage, willbender needs some ability to setup a CC combo. For which the elite skill and trolling light 2nd cast are the perfect options.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Leger.3724]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:23 PM, captrowdy.9561 said:

Stealth classes been in mmos since the beginning of time. Players complain about these classes in every game. Get over it 

 

Is that why player population in MMOs is so healthy and on a steep decline right now? Lower is better right? Like in golf?

It's almost like people got over stealth in MMOs and went to play MOBA games and FPS games that have dev teams that actually try to balance pvp interactions, provide counters, make cooldowns matter among a long list of other things no modern MMO does.

Now developers should be looking for ways to win back those players and not "lol deal with it". They'll deal with it right to the death of the genre if they take your approach.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Leger.3724

[captrowdy.9561]

1 hour ago, Leger.3724 said:

 

Is that why player population in MMOs is so healthy and on a steep decline right now? Lower is better right? Like in golf?

It's almost like people got over stealth in MMOs and went to play MOBA games and FPS games that have dev teams that actually try to balance pvp interactions, provide counters, make cooldowns matter among a long list of other things no modern MMO does.

Now developers should be looking for ways to win back those players and not "lol deal with it". They'll deal with it right to the death of the genre if they take your approach.

Mmos don’t sell because of pvp. As someone who plays mmos mostly for pvp that sucks but I understand it’s all about the pve.  

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I have like 20 minutes on WB but my thoughts are that I would probably consider it OP, but not really any more egregious than a lot of the other roaming builds out there. WB nerfs would make sense in the context of an actual roaming balance patch, but otherwise I don't think they are the worst thing out there. I'd take a fight against a WB over a DE 10 times out of 10, and of just the EoD specs, I prefer fighting WB over Harb, Cata, BSw, Mech, Vindi, and to an extent Specter and Virt. The common roaming build is Sw/Sw GS and I'd argue a pretty notable con to the spec is a lack of hard CC. Maybe not an issue in some matchups, but some specs will only die if they get CC chained, which that build can't really do. I'd say that's a downside worth mentioning, even on a build that feels like it has limitless mobility. 

If they want to nerf WB specifically in the context of roaming, I think it'd only make sense to also look at all the other really nasty roaming builds out there at the same time, of which there are numerous. As a Rev main, I can say without hesitation that both Vindi and (shortbow) Rene are very blatantly OP as well. 

[semak.7481]

21 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

Yeah, yeah and without knowing what build that WB had or if those 8 players had any tools (from build) to prevent that WB to just get past them I don't really believe you. No video and build is like telling that every profession in this game is OP and need to be nerfed into the ground.

How I'm supposed to know his build/stats hes using?  What is certain there was JI to port on ambient/npc, stab on F3 and F2 to cleanse immob to not die to a single immob and elite to recharge it obsly.

I'm not recording anything at all when I play, I'm not some filthy youtuber that records stuff for montages, if based on these you want to nerf classes, they should merge pvp and wvw changes and introduce amulets 😇

21 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

for what it is worth WB doesn't have stealth or any other tools to get away outside of its normal skills and abilities.

What?

Yea, they have billion rushes and ports. No one should have stupid sustain, damage and mobility at the same time, doesnt matter if they have stealth or not.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Some people don’t seem to realize the majority of players aren’t that good at pvp and will complain about whatever kills them, and with some people that make posts on constantly nerfing things you can see it’s a habit/trend to go to the forums and complain instead of trying to improve. 

[semak.7481]

13 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Some people don’t seem to realize the majority of players aren’t that good at pvp and will complain about whatever kills them, and with some people that make posts on constantly nerfing things you can see it’s a habit/trend to go to the forums and complain instead of trying to improve. 

"Cant win celestial nonsense? Stop crying and improve, change your stats to celestial and get proper build to benefit from it, also dont forget to change your class to wb/ele/rene/harb too!".

In 99.9% cases such "interesting" advice comes from bad players that abuse broken stuff and know they will suck once it nerfed.

Once all my brain cells commit sudoku, I will start playing celestial builds.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

"Cant win celestial nonsense? Stop crying and improve, change your stats to celestial and get proper build to benefit from it, also dont forget to change your class to wb/ele/rene/harb too!".

In 99.9% cases such "interesting" advice comes from bad players that abuse broken stuff and know they will suck once it nerfed.

Once all my brain cells commit sudoku, I will start playing celestial builds.

oh hai. Welcome to the WvW sub forums. So while trying to counter points, I admit, maybe it is late, I don't actually understand your point. Could read this post in a number ways. So instead of using counter anti-if logic, mind stating a view in a direct manner versus using aboutism logic?  Honestly after having to defend multiple views in a single thread, I really am not sure in this one what the point was. Maybe I am just tired. But since I am also stubborn, try it again, what are you trying to point out?

[semak.7481]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

oh hai. Welcome to the WvW sub forums. So while trying to counter points, I admit, maybe it is late, I don't actually understand your point. Could read this post in a number ways. So instead of using counter anti-if logic, mind stating a view in a direct manner versus using aboutism logic?  Honestly after having to defend multiple views in a single thread, I really am not sure in this one what the point was. Maybe I am just tired. But since I am also stubborn, try it again, what are you trying to point out?

I'v commented a few times here and my point is written there.

If you mean directly quoted message, imo its very clear and I dont have to explain the obvious. Wasnt even directed at you and what you want from me is unclear.

If you came to defend this "person" who tells me that i'm bad, line up, we will quickly figure it out 😉

Edited August 2, 2023 by semak.7481

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

2 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

I'v commented a few times here and my point is written there.

If you mean directly quoted message, imo its very clear and I dont have to explain the obvious. Wasnt even directed at you and what you want from me is unclear.

If you came to defend this "person" who tells me that i'm bad, line up, we will quickly figure it out 😉

I mean if the shoe fits lol 😂 also I don’t play willbender in WvW, and most players over inflate their own skills in games it’s quite prevalent actually and they cry more often than not for nerfs to make themselves feel better, especially when you see the same names repeatedly crying for nerfs on any class they aren’t actively playing. 

[Ironbars.2857]

Shhh..it's totally fine

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Ironbars.2857
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[RisingDawn.5796]

It's not a surprise, when it will take them years to 'balance' these new and shiny elite specs, more like nerf things to the ground, for even their 'cornerstone' competitive game mode.