Unpopulare opinion ...... this PvP as it Stands now is absolute garbage

[Myror.7521]

As title Said. I can not enjoy PvP anymore. The Meta is full of omega AoE spamy dump kitten. Even while you might want to Play Builds that would actually need brain to be good Played. They all end up been ways underperforming. Yes this meta got the most diverse of  Builds/Classes. But i feel like litterly every single one of them relies on something spamy/broken. Please do something against this kitten A-Net! Its not even funny and it makes (at least me) peops quit the gamemode.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Barabbas.8715]

No, that's the sensible opinion. Anet doesn't care.

[Greyrat.2378]

Hardly unpopular.
PvP is, and was for some time now, garbage experience, and eventually you will get tired of it unless you are addicted to that specific moment when you actually get good quality match up and situation where combat in GW2 actually shines.
Problem is that moments like that are very scarce and you get far more often thrown into situations that are hardly fun for neither side.
Fact that it took them that long to fix the signet cata for so long, only to nuke it in worst possible way (as is custom), speaks volumes on how much they care, and it often reeks of unprofessionalism which is not something I am willing to tolerate when it comes to someone like ArenaNet.
To be fair, I had my own share of fun in this game, including PvP, but it feels kind of sad when the mode you enjoy most turns into something that feels more like a chore and leaves you with bitter taste in your mouth after each match.
I don't necessarily blame them though, since they never really promised to revitalize PvP, so it's partially me being foolish for thinking that they would surpass my already low expectations.
In the end you have to ask yourself, what's the point of playing if you are not having fun?
For me, if it's not fun, it's time to quit the game. Which is what I did.
Good luck gamers, was fun playing with you. 🤗

Edited July 27, 2023 by Greyrat.2378
typo

[Endorphin.9147]

That is much more popular than you may think

[ccccc.4963]

On 7/26/2023 at 6:10 AM, Myror.7521 said:

Even while you might want to Play Builds that would actually need brain

Power roamer is the hardest role to play in the universe 

[atshadow.8695]

22 hours ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

Hardly unpopular.
PvP is, and was for some time now, garbage experience, and eventually you will get tired of it unless you are addicted to that specific moment when you actually get good quality match up and situation where combat in GW2 actually shines.
Problem is that moments like that are very scarce and you get far more often thrown into situations that are hardly fun for neither side.
Fact that it took them that long to fix the signet cata for so long, only to nuke it in worst possible way (as is custom), speaks volumes on how much they care, and it often reeks of unprofessionalism which is not something I am willing to tolerate when it comes to someone like ArenaNet.
To be fair, I had my own share of fun in this game, including PvP, but it feels kind of sad when the mode you enjoy most turns into something that feels more like a chore and leaves you with bitter taste in your mouth after each match.
I don't necessarily blame them though, since they never really promised to revitalize PvP, so it's partially me being foolish for thinking that they would surpass my already low expectations.
In the end you have to ask yourself, what's the point of playing if you are not having fun?
For me, if it's not fun, it's time to quit the game. Which is what I did.
Good luck gamers, was fun playing with you. 🤗

So much of this tbh 

And i'm barely a day \played in.

Atleast wvw is fun I doubt this game would have any pvpers left without it. Tho they should redo the dead map "edge of mist"  its always empty

Edited July 28, 2023 by atshadow.8695

[Marxx.5021]

Common opinion is that PvP is absolute garbage. Match maker is not working for lack of player. Balance is non existent and actually got worse with EoD. Nothing new for PvP in a long time. And on top of that Anet pretending PvP is still a valid game mode luring new player into it. 

[Stallic.2397]

Bad taste in your mouth for sure. You really do chase the experience of good matchmaking, which is so rare nowadays. Either you're dominating games 500-100 or suffering the alternative. 

Most times you're staring at the clock during those matches thinking what else could I be doing? The combat of equal competition is addicting, but that fix is slowly fading from lack of quantity 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Stallic.2397

[Eddbopkins.2630]

This game has become irredeemable in terms of balance. Can't be done. August 22nd introduces new weapons and abilities to the mix making it further unrefined and unbalanceable. The more specs there are to chose from the more unbalanced it gets. 

The only option there is, is to accept what you see and stop complaining about what will never happen. You'll be happier in the end I know I am.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/26/2023 at 5:10 AM, Myror.7521 said:

Please do something against this kitten A-Net! Its not even funny and it makes (at least me) peops quit the gamemode.

This is no longer a supported game mode.  

[Lighter.5631]

try another class that's not warrior

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Unpopular opinion? Prepare to be spammed with 😕reactions
Our 😕shall block out the sun and tonight we dine on that sweet, juicy, Reddit karma 😕😕😕

 

Is what I would say if I was part of the hive mind, but this isn't unpopular at all. This is the state of things. We've been abandoned without being told that we've been abandoned.

[Burnfall.9573]

On 7/26/2023 at 5:10 AM, Myror.7521 said:

As title Said. I can not enjoy PvP anymore. The Meta is full of omega AoE spamy dump kitten. Even while you might want to Play Builds that would actually need brain to be good Played. They all end up been ways underperforming. Yes this meta got the most diverse of  Builds/Classes. But i feel like litterly every single one of them relies on something spamy/broken. Please do something against this kitten A-Net! Its not even funny and it makes (at least me) peops quit the gamemode.

Guild Wars 2 cornerstone is broken...damaged beyond repair. Whether The Community choose to accept it or not; it will not make any difference 

-This is Anet: thinking, design, creation, philosophy, idea, goal, vision, imagination. Everything that we had witness in the past 11 year to the present day....are the direct consequences of Anet decision making. 

"Every Choice You Make Has An End Result"

Edited July 29, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Kuma.1503]

Game was 10x more fun pre Feb 2020. 

The entire point of that patch was to slow down time to kill. We endured countless patches of fun sucking nerfs to achieve that goal. 

Here we are 3 years later. People are exploding just as fast as they did back then. Chaining invulns and blocks is still the best way to survive. Only instead of every class having 3 broken builds, we have 1 or 2 classes as top dog and the rest acting as glorified backup dancers. 

 

 

[Sereath.1428]

At some point during HOT (after nerfs to obvious broken things like Chrono and no cds + low energy costs Rev) the game was at its peak in every game mode.
WvW, sPvP and PvE.
Even PoF was pretty decent to me, almost everyone still had enough damage and tools to punish other broken things and also enough sustain to survive aforementioned builds with enough mechanical skill.
Then Feb 2020 happened, more than half of the players I knew stopped logging in.
🟪
Right now, things just keep getting clunkier and more annoying to play, so things that have been left untouched for years obviously suddenly become oppressive as kitten, (because power is relative) thanks to how they continue to destroy "meta" skills and traits because of their and some players' obsession with an imaginary hypothetical balance for esports "muh conquest" where every class is expected to be 100% predictable by running the same exact traits, skills and weapons all the time.
I'm starting to think that MATs were a mistake, it was also their way to automate "content".
🟦
WvW barely receives "updates" nowadays, and no maps since forever. However, the gamemode didn't isolate itself that hard from the rest of the game by removing equipment personalization, that fact alone already makes WvW x20 times more interesting and fun for most people. Also the fact that some sPvP nerfs dont make it there, therefore it has way more builds around doing all kind of plays. People there for sure just play for fun since the rewards are very bad.
So it should come as no surprise that WvW has at least 10 times the population of sPvP, that alone should be enough to realise that people prefer fun to super strict bAlancE.

Edited July 29, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[doozer.7063]

Lets talk about how we define "unpopular" first 😀

[draxynnic.3719]

It's a vicious cycle. Bad matchmaking because the matchmaker can't find good matches causes people to quit, which reduces the population, making good matches even harder to make, which results in more people quitting, and so forth.

It's particularly noticeable in the off season 2v2 and 3v3 games which when soloqueued are usually basically a glorified coin flip of whether the player who's completely out of their league is on your team or the enemy team (even when they're on the enemy team, you can tell). Over half my games last 2v2 season were like that, and they've all been like that this 3v3 season - I'm probably not going to bother with the deathmatch seasons in the future as a result. I'm only continuing to play this season because of sunk costs.

Conquest isn't as bad... yet... probably because it's a bit easier to make up for a weak player in that format, and with larger teams you're more likely to have a weak player on both teams so they cancel out. But it definitely feels like the frequency with which games are decided by the matchmaker is increasing there too.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 7/29/2023 at 3:55 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Game was 10x more fun pre Feb 2020. 

The entire point of that patch was to slow down time to kill. We endured countless patches of fun sucking nerfs to achieve that goal. 

Here we are 3 years later. People are exploding just as fast as they did back then.

Slowing down time to kill doesn't help if a large portion of the population:

• dont evade the things that make their HP go down
• dont learn why the things that make their HP go down work

The excuse for this used to be "Things happened too fast for me to learn" and now it's "I see what happened, {class} must be OP" 

On top of that we also apparently haven't learned:

• bunker specs need to have a skill exhaustion period because people hate fighting things that don't die 1v1
• reworking core mechanics should be done very carefully, and their effects on elite specs should be considered
• If the above fails, core mechanics should not be axed to make the elite tolerable, it will lead to off meta class resentment.

However.

I disagree with OP. The pvp as it stands now is not absolute garbage. It has a number of different problems sure, but it is markedly better than it was several expansions ago. 

Consider the following:

• Arenanet promised to incorporate a team dedicated to balance. It is small, and sometimes they fumble the bag but they're present and they do balance regularly. More often than not the balancing direction is targeted and addresses actual issues (Again, not perfectly all the time but more often than not good.)
• Look at the meta. That's the most balanced meta I've seen in years. On top of that there's a laundry list of meme and not meme builds that kinda work and can skirmish with some of the meta builds if played right. I'm not a fan of the more bunker meta flavors, but the class distribution is nice.

I have my share of pessimism just as much as the next guy but occasionally you need to shelve all that and look at how things overall are moving. The itty bitty moving parts may not all be moving the way I like, but this is much better than chronobunker spam or infinite threads about guardian golden child or matches being who Lichforms first, etc etc.

There's still work to do though. It's not completely there yet. Better than the freefall it was in but we have to move forward.

The matchmaker will iron itself out if Anet figures out how to get new eyes on PvP, either through a festival or the like, once the balance is a bit more steady.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, when push comes to shove, the matchmaker is the biggest issue. Partially due to the low population, and partially because a string of good or bad luck while at relatively high MMR volatility can throw someone well out of their proper bracket (especially since, unless there's been a change to how rank points are awarded, you get a lot of points if you win a game where the matchmaker thinks you were being carried, and lose a lot of points if the matchmaker was expecting you to carry an otherwise bad team).

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Slowing down time to kill doesn't help if a large portion of the population:

• dont evade the things that make their HP go down
• dont learn why the things that make their HP go down work

The excuse for this used to be "Things happened too fast for me to learn" and now it's "I see what happened, {class} must be OP" 

On top of that we also apparently haven't learned:

• bunker specs need to have a skill exhaustion period because people hate fighting things that don't die 1v1
• reworking core mechanics should be done very carefully, and their effects on elite specs should be considered
• If the above fails, core mechanics should not be axed to make the elite tolerable, it will lead to off meta class resentment.

However.

I disagree with OP. The pvp as it stands now is not absolute garbage. It has a number of different problems sure, but it is markedly better than it was several expansions ago. 

Consider the following:

• Arenanet promised to incorporate a team dedicated to balance. It is small, and sometimes they fumble the bag but they're present and they do balance regularly. More often than not the balancing direction is targeted and addresses actual issues (Again, not perfectly all the time but more often than not good.)
• Look at the meta. That's the most balanced meta I've seen in years. On top of that there's a laundry list of meme and not meme builds that kinda work and can skirmish with some of the meta builds if played right. I'm not a fan of the more bunker meta flavors, but the class distribution is nice.

I have my share of pessimism just as much as the next guy but occasionally you need to shelve all that and look at how things overall are moving. The itty bitty moving parts may not all be moving the way I like, but this is much better than chronobunker spam or infinite threads about guardian golden child or matches being who Lichforms first, etc etc.

There's still work to do though. It's not completely there yet. Better than the freefall it was in but we have to move forward.

The matchmaker will iron itself out if Anet figures out how to get new eyes on PvP, either through a festival or the like, once the balance is a bit more steady.

 

I can't say I've had the experience, given balance changes have finally led to me no longer enjoying a class I used to love. 

But if I were to step into the shoes of someone else, I can see how things have improved since feb 2020. We've been repeatedly moving 2 steps forward 1 step back, which IS still positive progress in the grand scheme of things. 

Can't say i particularly enjoy this overly roamer-centric meta. But that is the playstyle that the majority of PvPers seem to enjoy. 

 

I can see how things have improved from other's perspective. But for me personally, I feel like I'd be satisfied with very little. Just give Scrapper back what little identity it used to have (I do not wish to be a budget-thief), un-gut core and ignore the people who whine that Mecha should never be viable.  Then I'll have positive things to say. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Just give Scrapper back what little identity it used to have (I do not wish to be a budget-thief), un-gut core and ignore the people who whine that Mecha should never be viable.  Then I'll have positive things to say. 

Just out of curiosity, how would you ungut core, return identity to scrapper, and balance Mechanist?

I'm aware of all three of those, but I don't play engineer to the extent I do warrior or thief, so beyond certain things like stunbreaks being hard to work into builds, kits being underwhelming, and mechanist boons requiring you to hug an unpredictably pathing AI, I'm not sure about the intricacies. What do you think?

[Kuma.1503]

55 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Just out of curiosity, how would you ungut core, return identity to scrapper, and balance Mechanist?

I'm aware of all three of those, but I don't play engineer to the extent I do warrior or thief, so beyond certain things like stunbreaks being hard to work into builds, kits being underwhelming, and mechanist boons requiring you to hug an unpredictably pathing AI, I'm not sure about the intricacies. What do you think?

Ho boy, I'll do my best not to write a novel here. 

Core-

Spoiler

 It's difficult to pinpoint a few major players here because it's died a death of a thousand cuts. A lot of shaves big and small done to tone down the overperforming elites. If I could pick just 2 changes to bring this back to a playable level...  

• Revert rifle auto nerf. This was done to nerf rifle mecha. They pulled an ele signets here where they noticed it was underperforming. Buffed it. People complained. Then they nerfed it to a state where it's weaker than where it started. Put it back to where it was before it was buffed. 
• Revert tool kit nerf. This one was recent. They removed the cooldown reduction trait on toolkit skills, but compensated by lowering the CDs baseline. In PvE only. Roll the lower CDs into PvP as well. Toolkit wasn't overperforming so it didn't need a nerf. 

Scrapper- 

Spoiler

 Nerf grenades. Hard nerf them if necessary. Remove 180 degree targeting so superspeeding away while tossing nades is no longer possible. People hate fighting it and I don't blame them. 

Undo some nerfs to superspeed. Return quickness to Kineitic Accelerators. Consider returning Impact Savant to 15% so we can melee brawl. Less ganking out of stealth and running away with nades and superspeed. More bonking with hammer, using superspeed to stick to things, and occasionally play hit and run on glassier builds.

(Support) Scrapper Revert purity of purpose nerf. It was necessary in WvW. Unecessary in PvP. Support Scrapper has been a niche choice at best. Something you pick to punish a condi-heavy team comp. It gets out performed by guard/tempest against power heavy comps, or vs heavy projectile users. 

Revert Medical Dispersion field to where it was before June, 28, 2022. Scrapper's group healing was not overperforming in PvP. This was another WvW centric nerf that wasn't needed in any other game mode. 

Mecha -

Spoiler

Honestly, just deleting Mechanical Genius, and reverting rifle back to it's original damage (before the rework) will be enough here. Mecha is already decent. MG just runs completely antithetical to how this is optimally played. You do NOT want to be stacking on your bot 24/7. Why would I give people free cleave vs me and my bot? Especially if that individua happens to be a guardian who generates more burning by hitting multiple targets. A Harbinger who can use that opening to float me and my Mech. A BS who can cleave down and stunlock both with DT. Ect. 

If we're really going to force this. At LEAST make Crisis Zone stunbreak work if the bot is in Crowd Control, so when you do inevitably get stunned with your bot, you can stunbreak out. 

MG is a PvE oritented change that has no place in PvP. (Arguably shouldn't exist in PvE either but that's a different topic). 

Holo -

Spoiler

Is fine. It was broken for 90% of it's lifespan. They finally toned it down. It's squishy, the sustain is much less obnoxious, and it isn't able to function as a teamfigher, duelist, and roamer all in one while being top-tier at all 3. 

It's still got the damage and mobility, and it can still 1v1, but it has to make sacrifies now which is a good thing. 

Nade Holo will be weaker after nades nerf, but nerfing one toxic mechanic opens up room to improve the class in other areas without breaking it. 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Bast.7253]

I haven't played since the beta and didn't play for a few months before that. Thought I'd hop in for a change and play some unranked matches. 

Nope, back to back match of top 25 players, including naru. 

Have any friends or family checked on these people to make sure they're not chained to their computer desks? I can tell just in the 2 hours I've been logged in the population has drastically shrunk again too. 

 

[thc enjoyer.4976]

6 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I haven't played since the beta and didn't play for a few months before that. Thought I'd hop in for a change and play some unranked matches. 

Nope, back to back match of top 25 players, including naru. 

Have any friends or family checked on these people to make sure they're not chained to their computer desks? I can tell just in the 2 hours I've been logged in the population has drastically shrunk again too. 

 

You can't be mad at the players, be mad at the devs and the decisions made that led to a barren wasteland of a pvp lobby. 

[Batalix.2873]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:09 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Ho boy, I'll do my best not to write a novel here. 

Core-

  Hide contents

 It's difficult to pinpoint a few major players here because it's died a death of a thousand cuts. A lot of shaves big and small done to tone down the overperforming elites. If I could pick just 2 changes to bring this back to a playable level...  

• Revert rifle auto nerf. This was done to nerf rifle mecha. They pulled an ele signets here where they noticed it was underperforming. Buffed it. People complained. Then they nerfed it to a state where it's weaker than where it started. Put it back to where it was before it was buffed. 
• Revert tool kit nerf. This one was recent. They removed the cooldown reduction trait on toolkit skills, but compensated by lowering the CDs baseline. In PvE only. Roll the lower CDs into PvP as well. Toolkit wasn't overperforming so it didn't need a nerf. 

Scrapper- 

  Reveal hidden contents

 Nerf grenades. Hard nerf them if necessary. Remove 180 degree targeting so superspeeding away while tossing nades is no longer possible. People hate fighting it and I don't blame them. 

Undo some nerfs to superspeed. Return quickness to Kineitic Accelerators. Consider returning Impact Savant to 15% so we can melee brawl. Less ganking out of stealth and running away with nades and superspeed. More bonking with hammer, using superspeed to stick to things, and occasionally play hit and run on glassier builds.

(Support) Scrapper Revert purity of purpose nerf. It was necessary in WvW. Unecessary in PvP. Support Scrapper has been a niche choice at best. Something you pick to punish a condi-heavy team comp. It gets out performed by guard/tempest against power heavy comps, or vs heavy projectile users. 

Revert Medical Dispersion field to where it was before June, 28, 2022. Scrapper's group healing was not overperforming in PvP. This was another WvW centric nerf that wasn't needed in any other game mode. 

Mecha -

  Reveal hidden contents

Honestly, just deleting Mechanical Genius, and reverting rifle back to it's original damage (before the rework) will be enough here. Mecha is already decent. MG just runs completely antithetical to how this is optimally played. You do NOT want to be stacking on your bot 24/7. Why would I give people free cleave vs me and my bot? Especially if that individua happens to be a guardian who generates more burning by hitting multiple targets. A Harbinger who can use that opening to float me and my Mech. A BS who can cleave down and stunlock both with DT. Ect. 

If we're really going to force this. At LEAST make Crisis Zone stunbreak work if the bot is in Crowd Control, so when you do inevitably get stunned with your bot, you can stunbreak out. 

MG is a PvE oritented change that has no place in PvP. (Arguably shouldn't exist in PvE either but that's a different topic). 

Holo -

  Reveal hidden contents

Is fine. It was broken for 90% of it's lifespan. They finally toned it down. It's squishy, the sustain is much less obnoxious, and it isn't able to function as a teamfigher, duelist, and roamer all in one while being top-tier at all 3. 

It's still got the damage and mobility, and it can still 1v1, but it has to make sacrifies now which is a good thing. 

Nade Holo will be weaker after nades nerf, but nerfing one toxic mechanic opens up room to improve the class in other areas without breaking it. 

 

 

 

The fact that you advocate for restoring rifle AA and removing Mechanical Genius without proposing any counterbalance completely invalidates this in any mode.

I would be fine with both, provided Mechanist lost ALL access to weaponskills. No class should have two sources of simultaneous and sizeable ranged AA damage. J-Mech *is* Mechanist's weapon, it should be using *that* more and not *need* a weapon. Design should have always leaned into that instead of letting lazy Mech players afk at 1200 range.