What relics should have been...

[raykor.6723]

The Jade Bot system was a great addition to the game. It ADDED new abilities without taking anything away. Relics should have been like that. Some new interesting and fun ability.

Nearly every post is a complaint abut what they did to the runes. Revert the runes to what they were.

[Karnn.4569]

I was hoping they would copy the 6th bonus over to relics so we would have what we already had.

Then add new ones down the road. Instead they took from us what we had already acquired without adequate replacement.

This is whats really setting everyone off. If they had just done this people could play as they had and dip their toes into new abilities and weapons.

Instead they gutted the playerbase builds across the board and the fact they didn't even consider this to be a problem and launched it frankly someone should be fired.

"To the devs"

I've been here since you guys left blizzard formed Anet and created Guild wars 1 whats it been 18-19 years I dont post often but when I come here to say something you better pucker up because I've been here longer than most your current staff minus the OG's at Anet I remember when you signed the first contract to be  NCsofts fourth game published.

"This was not well planned."

I wanted to add I've been here so long because of respect for the original devs of Anet.

I know your history because I respected the effort you put into your work and came along with you.

I'f I am here posting something is wrong I dont speak often the fact I'm here with a serious concern is a bad omen.

A base separation of gear stats from special bonuses should not have been this FUBAR.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Karnn.4569
been so long I forgot lineage was a game lol

[raykor.6723]

Separate the relic system from runes. Give us our old runes back!

[Sobx.1758]

Awful power creep -no, thanks. The idea behind relics is fine, it's the half-baked state they were released in which is problematic imo. Not like exactly that was pointed out before the release when we were talking about legendary relics.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

34 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Awful power creep -no, thanks. The idea behind relics is fine, it's the half-baked state they were released in which is problematic imo. Not like exactly that was pointed out before the release when we were talking about legendary relics.

This.

[Xelqypla.6817]

It's fine.

It's nice not being forced to choose between Stats and the set power. The complaints are far overblown, especially when you compare them to balance changes to abilities.

[Player.2475]

The new relics are just sad. I was expecting cool and exciting bonuses, but most of them feel like a straight downgrade from the 6th tier bonuses of all the runes I used to know and love.

[Raizel.8175]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Awful power creep -no, thanks. The idea behind relics is fine, it's the half-baked state they were released in which is problematic imo. Not like exactly that was pointed out before the release when we were talking about legendary relics.

Which power creep? Some builds now have no equivalent to what they lost as 6/6 rune effect. Most relics are so awfully specific in how they work that you have even less choices than with the old rune system. There are some very obvious winners and also some very obvious losers. The system is just terrible.

[Sobx.1758]

58 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Which power creep? Some builds now have no equivalent to what they lost as 6/6 rune effect. Most relics are so awfully specific in how they work that you have even less choices than with the old rune system. There are some very obvious winners and also some very obvious losers. The system is just terrible.

From what I undestand OP proposes leaving bonuses in runes AND adding second bonuses as relics. So that power creep 😉

I agree with what you wrote if we exclude first question and the last short sentence. I don't think the system is terrible, the system is ok, but it's half baked, some relics are targetting specific classes/builds, while other classes/builds are left with "well, that will have to do I guess?" types of choices. The relics in their current form were not ready to launch.
Not to mention taking a look at the runes of pack and runes of chrono -currently they just tacked "some 6th bonus on them" and it results in one set being a straight upgrade over the other. That doesn't make much sense to me, these runes should be merged into one.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Sobx.1758
relics, not runes

[raykor.6723]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Awful power creep -no, thanks.

Jade Bot abilities—like Treasure Hunter—added convenience without affecting combat. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

It's nice not being forced to choose between Stats and the set power.

It's nice not being forced to choose between Stats and the set power. It's not nice if that gets achieved by:

1. taking stuff away from you

2. Not offering anything meaningful in return

I mean, i no longer feel forced to choose between stats and set power not because set power has been transferred to Relics, but because any set power i might have cared about has been outright deleted.

[Xelqypla.6817]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's nice not being forced to choose between Stats and the set power. It's not nice if that gets achieved by:

1. taking stuff away from you

2. Not offering anything meaningful in return

I mean, i no longer feel forced to choose between stats and set power not because set power has been transferred to Relics, but because any set power i might have cared about has been outright deleted.

That's not a problem with the relic system itself, now is it?

Changes will always happen in MMOs. You'll be much happier if you change up what you are doing than if you just focus on what you lost, since it's not coming back anyway.

[Mogsterfortytwo.6712]

Yeah, I got my runes of fireworks for the +25% speed, not the 'set bonus' boons in combat. Now I'm left with a +10% boon duration out of no where, while certain other sets are allowed to keep the movement bonus? No I have to swap them all for an identical set apart from that last set bonus that the runes of surging arbitrarily kept instead? The relic choice box is a nice olive branch, but could have done with something similar for the actual runes as well!

[The Boz.2038]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

1. taking stuff away from you

2. Not offering anything meaningful in return

This sounds like a nerf.
Say, didn't you spend the past two months complaining how they're taking stuff away from you AND giving it back at extra price?

[Kalibri.5861]

Things change, fellows.

You're entitled to feel sad about it I suppose, but they're not going to revert this. Personally, I've never been so attached to one rune set bonus that it made my whole build and I couldn't play without it, so I am extremely confused by all of the complaints. Relics will continue to be balanced like everything else. Some will get buffs, some will get nerfs, and your builds will evolve with the new mechanic.

Learn new things and play more game. Maybe you'll find something cool. Hope you have fun out there.

[suialthor.7164]

1 hour ago, Kalibri.5861 said:

Things change, fellows.

You're entitled to feel sad about it I suppose, but they're not going to revert this. Personally, I've never been so attached to one rune set bonus that it made my whole build and I couldn't play without it, so I am extremely confused by all of the complaints. Relics will continue to be balanced like everything else. Some will get buffs, some will get nerfs, and your builds will evolve with the new mechanic.

Learn new things and play more game. Maybe you'll find something cool. Hope you have fun out there.

If all I care about is min and max performance, then you are right.  There are parts of the game where that can matter.   But many of the bonuses they removed were fun and or helpful to use in open world.   They added a little flavor to how we played.  It was nice not feeling like I was using a raid build all the time.

The current batch of relics may be good for performance (when I am in group content) but they are mostly boring when it comes to open world.  

[Kalibri.5861]

You mean you miss the summons, I guess?

[Ashantara.8731]

I would have been content with Relics merely being the separated 6th bonuses we knew. These new bonuses are really strange, some make little to no sense to use at all.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

This sounds like a nerf.
Say, didn't you spend the past two months complaining how they're taking stuff away from you AND giving it back at extra price?

Well, at least now i don't need to care about farming for them to get them back, so yeah, that does seem like an upside. Of course if the best part of the system is that it's so bad i don't need to care about it anymore, it's not a good thing.

[raykor.6723]

On 8/27/2023 at 4:59 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

I would have been content with Relics merely being the separated 6th bonuses we knew. These new bonuses are really strange, some make little to no sense to use at all.

For sure. Had they simply released a large number of relics that EXACTLY replaced the previous 6th rune bonuses, then those that wanted to stay with what they had before would have been satisfied.

Also, the whole "stats to replace bonus" was untrue. A 6th rune with +125 Vitality is not equivalent to +10% Max Health. A 6th rune with +125 condition damage is not equivalent to +5% Condition Damage.

Edited August 29, 2023 by raykor.6723

[Kalibri.5861]

If no one has those bonuses then everyone is on the same playing field. What difference does it make?

Honestly, the only thing I really sort of understand people being upset about losing is the summons. Golems and rock dogs and such. That mechanic had character, so I can understand people being fond of it. But the fact is that people love being given things and hate it when things are taken away, even if it doesn't really change much in the grand scheme.

End of the day, this is not a big deal. It creates more build flexibility, makes it easier for them to balance, and let's be honest, it's another way for ArenaNet to keep folks playing the game. So many of the complaints about systems changes with this expansion have been from people who don't seem to want to actually play. It's genuinely baffling to me that people who want to do so little are so loud about it.

[Dante.1508]

I have to disagree the jade bot design is horrific..

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, raykor.6723 said:

Also, the whole "stats to replace bonus" was untrue. A 6th rune with +125 Vitality is not equivalent to +10% Max Health. A 6th rune with +125 condition damage is not equivalent to +5% Condition Damage.

At least those are more straightforward. Now, look at Ogre, with 1-5 bonuses being power and ferocity, and the old 6th bonus being +3% damage and the rock dog. What did Anet choose for 6th stat bonus? Ferocity, as it should be from the normal stat sequence? Nah, too obvious. Power? Nope, that would still be too straightforward. Then maybe the third dps stat, Precision? Nah, not it either. Instead of those way too obvious (and thus, obviously bad) choices, Anet decided to be original, and add Vitality....

[DoomNexus.5324]

Honestly, I prefer splitting the stats from effects.
I can totally see the points about an incomplete set of (previously available) effects, questionable replacements, etc tho.

Personally, I use a new effect and it synergizes perfectly with my build and allowed me to do some more optimizations, so I actually benefited from the changes.

[Shuzuru.3651]

14 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

At least those are more straightforward. Now, look at Ogre, with 1-5 bonuses being power and ferocity, and the old 6th bonus being +3% damage and the rock dog. What did Anet choose for 6th stat bonus? Ferocity, as it should be from the normal stat sequence? Nah, too obvious. Power? Nope, that would still be too straightforward. Then maybe the third dps stat, Precision? Nah, not it either. Instead of those way too obvious (and thus, obviously bad) choices, Anet decided to be original, and add Vitality....

Well, Ferocity is already on scholar and precision on deadeye (2 runes who share the same stat with ogre)

If you look at the Ogre, it got 2 components on his 6th bonus, the first is damage (with the +4% damage), the second is sustain (the rock dog basically tanking a bit)

Considering the fact that scholar and deadeye already cover offensive option and that most of the time, you need more ferocity rather than more power (so no one wanting only damage would choose a rune with power on last instead of ferocity), vitality is actually a good choice, all factors combined. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Shuzuru.3651