Math comparing old and new dailys

[LameMule.4137]

Chiming in to simply say that I much prefer the new daily system. Provided the dailies don't put broken objectives like Valdhertz Crypts that Anet has known to be broken since day 1 in the pool. But aside from that it's been just lovely. I love the selection, I love the choice and the 3 dailies really don't ask that much more of us.

Edited August 27, 2023 by LameMule.4137

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, sos.6510 said:

Yep I stated that in the initial post, you basically lose 231 spirit shards over the course of the 77 days

New amount of tome of knowledge also doesn't make up for it in any capacity, so I would also really like to see them back in daily rewards

They should remove the purchase cap on Tomes. That would fix it.

[Luthan.5236]

They acutally should try to emulate the thing they did with the gold. (1g in daily chest. You can buy more in the rewards selection. Some cheap with a cap. And then more expensive ones.) 1 spirit shard to the daily. Mabe even 7 to the weekly. (Meaning about 2 per day directly.) For the other one ... 77 with a purchase cap on the vendor. And more at a higher price. Leave the tomes limited since they can be used for leveling as well. Put shards there directly.

[wolonggong.3469]

On 8/23/2023 at 4:07 AM, sos.6510 said:

Y'all a quick to cry about the loss of the daily login before you even try to compare it, so here it is.

- Closing

This is not a white knighting post, a lot of the critics are quite valid, I wouldn't mind seeing more choice in the dailies or a reroll button, and I also will greatly miss the reward track potions.

But stop for a moment and realize that the baseline system is 100% more rewarding

Nope. login rewards were their own thing and NOW it only rewards 5 points and thus if you are not adding up how log it takes to make purchases with 5 points per day, you do not get to pretend we are getting more now just because its a currency shared with the daily and weekly reward system.

Old way = Logged in day 1 got reward, Logged in day 2 got reward,  Logged in day 3 got reward,  Logged in day 4 got reward

Now. Logged in every day since and have no rewards, just a bunch of currency and a lot of items that say I need to buy an expansion that does not look appealing to me right now.

Old way math says I earned a lot and new way says I earn nothing unless I make it part of my playing to actually get what I used to get.

BTW, old way = 1 2% gold increase every single month. What is the current price of a gold increase and how many days do I need to log in saving up my 5 points to get it? Guess what. It isnt 30 days of logging in and in fact if it was I would then have to give up 29 other days of old rewards to get it.

There is the thing left out of your math. 5 points per day does not allow you to buy the 30 days worth of rewards from the old system.

Closing

This is not a white knight post for the old system because it can defend itself with actual obvious facts which also show that you are actually white knighting the new system, because you left the above out of your math. That 5 points per day for logging in does not in fact give you more because you cannot purchase what you used to get with it.

EDITED to add in a simple question. IF they had removed 100% of PvE rewards and made it all PvP, would it still be a better system? If you said no, then its because you KNOW this current system is not better as the amount of points you "could" earn would still be the same, just behind PvP. The very idea this thread was even made is a joke trying to justify it because login rewards are the same as daily/weekly rewards, a currency. That does not make it better than the old which rewarded directly, for logging in, as a LOG IN reward system is even for...logging in.

Edited August 31, 2023 by wolonggong.3469

[wolonggong.3469]

Math.

Item ---Cost---days of login rewards to purchase

Revive Orb. 95. 15 days

Transmog Charge 8. 1 1/2 days

Bag of Laurels 10. 2 days

Large Crafting Bag. 40. 8 days

Lesser Essence of Gold. 1000. 200 days

It would take almost 250 DAYS to get less than what we used to get MONTHLY...and people are trying to make posts saying we get more by pretending that we are not getting 5 points with logging in because its on the same page as daily rewards and NOW viewed as "the same". It isnt the same. Log in rewards were log in rewards and must be compared to what you can get with log in reward points ONLY. This is what happens when you ARE white knighting, you make excuses, twist facts and skew reality to defend it.

And reacting with a confusion does not change that math. The old daily system was better and rewarded far more than the current 5 points gives.

Edited August 31, 2023 by wolonggong.3469

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:53 AM, Gibson.4036 said:

 

Before you didn't have to push the button to receive the reward. You already had it.

[Gibson.4036]

44 minutes ago, wolonggong.3469 said:

Math.

Item ---Cost---days of login rewards to purchase

Revive Orb. 95. 15 days

Transmog Charge 8. 1 1/2 days

Bag of Laurels 10. 2 days

Large Crafting Bag. 40. 8 days

Lesser Essence of Gold. 1000. 200 days

It would take almost 250 DAYS to get less than what we used to get MONTHLY...and people are trying to make posts saying we get more by pretending that we are not getting 5 points with logging in because its on the same page as daily rewards and NOW viewed as "the same". It isnt the same. Log in rewards were log in rewards and must be compared to what you can get with log in reward points ONLY. This is what happens when you ARE white knighting, you make excuses, twist facts and skew reality to defend it.

It’s pretty universally acknowledged that the new system makes you have to engage with the game. No one is pretending you can get the same from just logging in.

However, if you used to log in and do daily completionist, you will get better rewards under the new system.

[wolonggong.3469]

40 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It’s pretty universally acknowledged that the new system makes you have to engage with the game. No one is pretending you can get the same from just logging in.

However, if you used to log in and do daily completionist, you will get better rewards under the new system.

The entire OP is him "comparing" the old daily login with the new by comparing all possible points you can earn via login, daily and weekly points against just the old login rewards. Clearly a fair comparison...not. It needed to be refuted. It is neither a fair comparison nor is the new one a system that everyone must accept silently.

77 days (his using a season for comparisons) x 5 for login rewards = 385 points. THAT is the only thing that should be compared if a person like the OP is going to say that the daily log in rewards are better now. I am not going to sit back as someone tries to blatantly lie to white knight a system that so many hate. Their hate is justified. If someone likes the new system, say it and move on...do not make long posts that are 100% false to try to undermine players legit reasons to not like it.

When drastic changes are made to an 11 year old system, expect blowback and a divided playerbase. Imagine if they removed all PvE daily/weekly rewards and made all but the login points locked behind PvP...would it sill be "better" I mean, you "could buy more" with all those extra points you didnt have in the old system thus its BETTER!!!!

They should have just revamped the daily/weekly and left the log in alone, its the entire POINT of having a log in reward system in the first place, to reward someone...for logging in.

Edited August 31, 2023 by wolonggong.3469

[Gravitron.7982]

On 8/23/2023 at 3:39 AM, Dondarrion.2748 said:

It's an MMO and there's an economy to take into account... I think a system rewarding free stuff like that needs to go when you have people running dozens of accounts simply to amass login rewards. Now the most rewards will come to active players, not someone who just paid for dozens of copies of the game and is running a launch buddy app to quickly cycle through his 40 accounts on a daily basis before sending all the gold, MCs, etc. to his main account once a month.

Works fine for ESO. Attracts more players too!

[Jianyu.7065]

22 hours ago, wolonggong.3469 said:

The entire OP is him "comparing" the old daily login with the new by comparing all possible points you can earn via login, daily and weekly points against just the old login rewards. Clearly a fair comparison...not. It needed to be refuted. It is neither a fair comparison nor is the new one a system that everyone must accept silently.

77 days (his using a season for comparisons) x 5 for login rewards = 385 points. THAT is the only thing that should be compared if a person like the OP is going to say that the daily log in rewards are better now. I am not going to sit back as someone tries to blatantly lie to white knight a system that so many hate. Their hate is justified. If someone likes the new system, say it and move on...do not make long posts that are 100% false to try to undermine players legit reasons to not like it.

When drastic changes are made to an 11 year old system, expect blowback and a divided playerbase. Imagine if they removed all PvE daily/weekly rewards and made all but the login points locked behind PvP...would it sill be "better" I mean, you "could buy more" with all those extra points you didnt have in the old system thus its BETTER!!!!

They should have just revamped the daily/weekly and left the log in alone, its the entire POINT of having a log in reward system in the first place, to reward someone...for logging in.

The worst part about this position is that it ONLY takes into account if you only log in and do not play the game at all. If you're comparing just what you get for logging in and then doing absolutely nothing else - then yeah, you're at a loss in the new system. However, in respect to just logging in to get the daily login reward and then not playing at all - the rewards you gain are technically worthless because they're not being used for anything of worth. So, in this way, the new and old is comparible because you're not getting much out of either if ALL you do, all you ONLY do is login and nothing else. 

However, if you logged in, collected the daily and played for an hour - the new system is beyond more rewarding than the old system - and there really is no legitimate reason, other than spite, to dislike the new system.

OPs math is on point - if not lacking in specifically addressing the fact that it's value is primarily based on actually playing the game and not just logging in, collecting your daily reward, then logging out.

[BlueJin.4127]

Since the old system and the WV have different daily objectives (different completion times) and different rewards (different value), it would be hard to make a direct comparison. Still, the closest direct comparison for time spent doing similar activities would be:

All rewards from old log-in + daily completion (2g, spirit shard, etc.) across 28 days.

All rewards from WV dailies (65 AA a day, 1g, etc.) across 28 days.

You should not factor in any rewards you get from WV weeklies in a direct comparison since the old system did not have weeklies and it takes additional time to complete the weeklies. Including WV weeklies in the comparison is like comparing 1 activity from the old system vs 2 activities from the current system. Of course 2 activities will get you more rewards since you’re playing more.

Simply put, the better system depends on each individual:

If you don't do dailies/weeklies, the old system is better.

If you do some dailies/weeklies, it can go either way.

If you do a lot of dailies/weeklies, WV is better.

Edited September 9, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[wolonggong.3469]

2 hours ago, Jianyu.7065 said:

The worst part about this position is that it ONLY takes into account if you only log in and do not play the game at all. If you're comparing just what you get for logging in and then doing absolutely nothing else - then yeah, you're at a loss in the new system.

The OP is telling people that do not like the new DAILY LOGIN rewards that its better than the old by combing having to do a bunch of game content + the daily login points to get what the old system gave you for doing what the system was created for, logging in.

The ONLY way there is a fair comparison is to look at what was once gotten for logging in to what you can now get for only logging in, 5 points per day. That, is the ONLY way to compare the old to the new. Saying it is better now if you do a bunch of game content to get more points is actually proof it is a worse daily login reward system because you only needed to log in to get them.

This was a clear white knight thread which is why it fails so hard with anyone but those that also want to white knight the new system and accomplishes a grand total of nothing as it does not change anyones mind and further increases the divide between the players who now get to see a lot of people attempt to dismiss their legit complaint with flagrant lying. Again, they should have just reworked the daily/weeklies and left the LOG IN reward track alone, as that is the reason to have a LOG IN REWARD system in the first place. To reward for logging in.

And this is why you ignored my point about what if they took out the PvE and made all the tasks PvP, would the system still be better...because you know it wouldnt be even though "You could do a lot of playing and earn more to buy more". Its a bogus argument. The daily login pays out 5 points and you cant buy anything for long periods of time thus making this a WORSE LOG IN REWARD SYSTEM. All extra point sources mean nothing, because the OPs is trying to argue about it being a better login system. Deal with it. Its a white knight post and it fails.

[Jianyu.7065]

2 hours ago, wolonggong.3469 said:

The OP is telling people that do not like the new DAILY LOGIN rewards that its better than the old by combing having to do a bunch of game content + the daily login points to get what the old system gave you for doing what the system was created for, logging in.

The ONLY way there is a fair comparison is to look at what was once gotten for logging in to what you can now get for only logging in, 5 points per day. That, is the ONLY way to compare the old to the new. Saying it is better now if you do a bunch of game content to get more points is actually proof it is a worse daily login reward system because you only needed to log in to get them.

This was a clear white knight thread which is why it fails so hard with anyone but those that also want to white knight the new system and accomplishes a grand total of nothing as it does not change anyones mind and further increases the divide between the players who now get to see a lot of people attempt to dismiss their legit complaint with flagrant lying. Again, they should have just reworked the daily/weeklies and left the LOG IN reward track alone, as that is the reason to have a LOG IN REWARD system in the first place. To reward for logging in.

And this is why you ignored my point about what if they took out the PvE and made all the tasks PvP, would the system still be better...because you know it wouldnt be even though "You could do a lot of playing and earn more to buy more". Its a bogus argument. The daily login pays out 5 points and you cant buy anything for long periods of time thus making this a WORSE LOG IN REWARD SYSTEM. All extra point sources mean nothing, because the OPs is trying to argue about it being a better login system. Deal with it. Its a white knight post and it fails.

C'mon man, you're being deliberately obtuse now. The fact is - if you plan on actually playing the game, the new system is more rewarding. Period. Argue that however you want - I'm sure some company will arrive to help you "white knight" for your side. It doesn't change the facts, though. 

With that, maybe it's better you stop playing since all you're really defending is technically not playing at all. If you do that, I'm sure it will make us all happy....

[Chaos God.1639]

I think its mostly pve players who don't like the change. for me as a pvp/wvw player the new system is A LOT BETTER than the previous system.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 8/23/2023 at 3:49 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

Otherwise it is a significant step up for ACTIVE players of the game, and those are the ones the developers should focus on imo.

It's a bit more complicated than that. For example, i still do actively play this game (maybe not as much as years ago, but it's still a lot). What i dislike about this system is the fact that now game tries to tell me what i should do and push me towards content i might not be interested in at that moment. Before, it was not a problem - while not doing dailies was "costing" me 2g (my daily APs are capped since long ago), i was already earning more every day to not make it an issue, and stuff i did care about (mostly clovers, Mystic Coins and gold find bonus) were slowly accruing without derailing my daily plans. Now the system is twisting the way i play the game, because the loss from ignoring it is just too big to give up on it. I have enough free time i can spend on this game that i can manage, but it's still annoying, and reducing my enjoyment. And most players do not play as much as i do, so being forced into specific activities is costing them a bigger percentage of their game time, and reduces the activities they'd rather be doing to a much bigger degree.

Now, the Vault system is far from being the only one that tries to channel players towards something, but that only makes things worse - the amount of systems like that keep increasing. For a long time the game didn't feel like it, and at least tried to respect my time and my choices, but at some point apparently this design idea has been scrapped. And that's... not fun at all.

To reassume, yes, this system is reward wise a bit better than the one before... but only if you have enough time to take full use of it, and have no issue with this game dictating your activities for you. Otherwise, it can be a significant loss.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Heh. I think everyone realises the new system is worse for those who just login and don’t play. But that does seem to be a part of the point, part of the reason Anet changed to the new system. It is by design so complaints about it are unlikely to get anywhere. I suspect most people, including me, feel that this is better, the in game economy shouldn’t be so influenced by people just logging in on multiple accounts. Play time should be how you get rewards and make progress. I am pretty sure there won’t be any moves backwards on this.

[wolonggong.3469]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:44 PM, Jianyu.7065 said:

C'mon man, you're being deliberately obtuse now. The fact is - if you plan on actually playing the game

You are the one being obtuse. The argument by the OP is about the DAILY LOGIN.

A fair and HONEST argument is that the daily/weeklies are better because it is now a little more like the old login rewards.

The fact you people keep attempting to make it sound like playing the game is the point is proof you are not arguing in good faith but instead hated the fact people were being rewarded something for just logging in and do not understand the very reason for MMORPGs having those things in the first place. This entire thread is nothing but toxic people hating a thing and trying to find a way to justify it. And having to lie like this is proof you people have no ground to stand on.

There is only ONE fact here. The old daily login rewarded an item every day that cannot be matched with the current system by just logging in. The only way to come remotely close to it is by now having to, as you say, "play the game" which means it still does not match the old system which did not require it. This is what happens when you form an argument based on a lie instead of creating an argument based on FACTS which is that the daily/weeklies are now better. But this is a white knight argument meant to try to dismiss the legit complaints of fellow players.

Nothing makes me sicker than a group of players that lie to dismiss people in their own community.

[Jianyu.7065]

On 9/8/2023 at 8:38 AM, wolonggong.3469 said:

You are the one being obtuse. The argument by the OP is about the DAILY LOGIN.

A fair and HONEST argument is that the daily/weeklies are better because it is now a little more like the old login rewards.

The fact you people keep attempting to make it sound like playing the game is the point is proof you are not arguing in good faith but instead hated the fact people were being rewarded something for just logging in and do not understand the very reason for MMORPGs having those things in the first place. This entire thread is nothing but toxic people hating a thing and trying to find a way to justify it. And having to lie like this is proof you people have no ground to stand on.

There is only ONE fact here. The old daily login rewarded an item every day that cannot be matched with the current system by just logging in. The only way to come remotely close to it is by now having to, as you say, "play the game" which means it still does not match the old system which did not require it. This is what happens when you form an argument based on a lie instead of creating an argument based on FACTS which is that the daily/weeklies are now better. But this is a white knight argument meant to try to dismiss the legit complaints of fellow players.

Nothing makes me sicker than a group of players that lie to dismiss people in their own community.

We all know you want to die on the hill of your silly point. But, the fact is - if you ONLY logged in to collect the daily reward and did NOT play then your argument doesn't even matter because the rewards you're collecting are worthless if they're just being collected and then used for nothing else.

Seriously, just leave if all of this makes you sick. You're trying way too hard to swing this in your favor and you are 100% just wrong. Period.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

The daily login rewards, the 5 AA, is better because it's much less than it was before.

[DarcShriek.5829]

Apparently Anet wants players to engage in the game, not just log in.  Just logging in doesn't help anet in any possible way.

[Sylvyn.4750]

1 hour ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Apparently Anet wants players to engage in the game, not just log in.  Just logging in doesn't help anet in any possible way.

Consider players that actually bought expansions to set up alt accounts for the login rewards and perhaps some of the easier daily missions...the loss of those types of sales due to a much longer return on investment won't help Anet's bottom line either. 

[DarcShriek.5829]

1 hour ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

Consider players that actually bought expansions to set up alt accounts for the login rewards and perhaps some of the easier daily missions...the loss of those types of sales due to a much longer return on investment won't help Anet's bottom line either. 

Sounds like you're into pay to win games.

[Sylvyn.4750]

1 hour ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Sounds like you're into pay to win games.

It's pay to progress just a bit faster because you don't have as much time to play.  I've had ascended armor, trinkets and weapons way before getting a couple alt accounts, so there really is no "winning" gained by making more in-game currency at this point.  Legendaries aren't any more powerful than ascended, so it's just helping speed up convenience items and cosmetics, especially since I mostly play WvW where the rewards are not as good as in PvE.  Oh, but I forgot that some are into fashion wars, and getting legendaries faster night be considered pay to win in that category.  😏

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Apparently Anet wants players to engage in the game, not just log in.  Just logging in doesn't help anet in any possible way.

Making me do EoD minidungeons does not increase my engagement with the game. Quite the opposite, it makes it way more likely that as soon as i am done with the dailies (and pushing weeklies along) i will close the game down and play something else. Some players prefer rails that give direction to their in-game activities, but i am playing GW2 because it didn't really have things like that. But now it changes more and more from "play how you like" into "play the way we tell you to play". Which wouldn't be okay even if the devs had the same sense of fun that i do - which they seemingly don't.

[Vayne.8563]

On 8/23/2023 at 8:33 PM, hertigknut.8475 said:

Getting free stuff really do suck dosen't it ? 

For the game. It does. It doesn't get people out in the world doing stuff, and that's the entire purpose of dailies. Not to give you free stuff. The fact that you think it's good for the game to have you log in get stuff and log out is wrong.  You still get something for logging in. And doing 1 or 2 dalies now is more profitable than doing all 3 before, but you know, you do you.