Spoilers Lw S4 - Warning for All Those Who are Light Sensitive

[Menadena.7482]

@Ceridwen.6703 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:

My big trigger is stress ... however that can range from everything from missing a medication dose to having a program I wrote fail at the worst possible time. All sorts of factors are involved in whether the stress will trigger a seizure or not although the stressors are additive. Light shows by themselves do not seem to do it for me but I avoid them in case my system treats it as yet another form of stress. Which means PSE warnings do not help me at all even if they were not so abused. My living involves computers and anything on a monitor could theoretically cause a person with PSE to have a seizure so I just am careful around any known stuff.

Stress being a causal factor for seizures is definitely an issue some wouldn't consider. I can well imagine you running into potential difficulties in game, particularly if you feel you have to complete an instance quickly or every NPC is going to be a crystalpop, and you don't get a shiny achievement if you don't do something in a horribly tight time frame ( don't know if you're like me, but my epilepsy does not prevent me from enjoying shiny achievements - although I usually ignore timer based stuff because I don't need to cause myself more hassle than necessary).

Again, I simply ask Anet to consider players with disabilities. How about doing some kind of private contact form where we can tell you how you could make your game more accessible for us? We'd love to help you help us!

I generally handle it by doing things like not worrying about speed and actually most achieves. Yes, the 'git guud' types will scoff but I get enough stress in RL, I do not need more from something I am doing for fun. It is part of my frustration with some design elements, like the fact we have not had a map (or series of maps in the case of the expansions) added since S2 that did not force us to do an instance before we could sit back and explore it. I prefer to do the story when I can calmly do it and when everything in it is well-documented so there are no surprises. That is not even counting the stress if I am unable to do some part of the instance for whatever reason. So I know to avoid the stress of raids and fractals but then they go and basically put stress triggers all over PVE, which I used to love for the fact that I could just be a casual gamer.

[BeardedVagabond.8136]

This is a loaded post op, and you know it. If someone disagrees with you, they are an ass. If someone agrees with you, they're a hero.Should the game be adjusted for every minority persons that have visual ailments? Color blind? Motion sickness? Farsighted? Being blind in general?They give you a warning, for a reason. Yeah, it sucks. You're either going to have to adapt or move on to different games.

P.s. I've stopped playing most first person shooters do to motion sickness.

[Menadena.7482]

@Nick Lentz.6982 said:They give you a warning, for a reason. Yeah, it sucks. You're either going to have to adapt or move on to different games.

As I have pointed out those warnings are overused, if anything on a computer thinks they even MIGHT want to do something flashy they put it on as a CYA legal move .... which means nobody that might be affected pays attention to them because 99% of the time it is just empty words. As has also been pointed out in other posts people with epilepsy are triggered by different things and have widely varying tolerance levels.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Aerlen.5326 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:While I emphatize.. emphasize.. have empathy with the people who are prone to seizures, I do also believe theres a small bubble of common sense, namely that just like a legless person should reconsider doing a marathon (not that they can’t), a seizure prone person should always consider playing a video game since flashy lights are quite often a medium of animation, especially if it involves magic.

Not when 3 years of said game contained no such triggers and they are not common-place. Trust me, if during Karka Free To Play Weekend in 2012 I would have seen content like the first LW S4 episode - I would not have bought the game. I would have gone back to WoW and Second Life and left GW2 for people who like their eyeballs melted. I do not continue to play things that show me from the start they have Michael Bay disease.

I'm also going to say this again since people miss it - the trigger for me and others is extremely specific. It's a specific speed, frequency, and overabundance of flashing/strobing/exploding lights. So while someone say using 80 tomes of knowledge and doing the level up flash is going to do absolutely nothing, ten rapidly flashing lightning strikes with ten AoE circles plus background pulsing and strobing in the span of a minute is going to set it off every time. It's not every effect. It's specific ones. Specific ones that are rarely used EXCEPT in story instances. As a gamer of almost 40 years, I can only name maybe 8 games I've played that did this out of 300+. Guild Wars 2 is one of them, most of the others are old 80's arcade games and that Polybius rom (which was intended to do that - it's Polybius. Seriously. The whole urban legend is about a game making people sick from visuals). A better example would be to tell someone who gets sick if they see Chubacabra to never watch television because one might unexpectedly pop up and they can't blame the media for using it because television is a medium of fantasy. How many TV shows use a Chubacabra to warrant someone needing to avoid all media? And what about those without health issues who have gotten ill or gotten a headache from this instance? I mean.. should they have expected eye melting effects by virtue of this being a video game? This is like blaming the Japanese kids that got sick from Electric Solider Porygon and telling it was their fault for watching a cartoon (That one makes the end of Stranger Things look tame BTW, I survived like 2 seconds and noped out).

It's too much. It's too extreme. Cut it out or provide a slider. That's it. Issue solved. Slider means everyone is super happy, everyone wins. Cutting down on SE temporarily while they develop a slider works too. I understand my anger in the first post was extreme - no I don't want everyone deprived of the effects they like. I just want the choice to skip them.

I can say i wouldnt mind a slider for flashy animations since my laptop can’t handle it all..Ill at least concede that gw2 has gotten flashier over the years, but i think its to blame the fact that were using more magic, the orr campaign was lots of steel on undead flesh, come the bloodstone crumble its all magic explosions, branded lightning storms and balthazar fire storms.Personally i like the magic-dry world of around the Orr campaign a little more. It might have something to do with the transit of directors, but i cant guarantee that

[lynspottery.6529]

I repeat: Asking for a slider or a click box to opt out of those over-the-top graphic effects, would not hurt anyone if made available for those who want it. After all, most games already have color blind options so why not add this into that category as well?

[Gaile Gray.6029]

We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

[lynspottery.6529]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

Thank you, and my eyes will thank you even more when it is addressed....appreciate the note. :)

[Menadena.7482]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

Yay!!!! Even us epileptics that are not photosensitive avoid over-the-top effects because we know we just may not have seen too many effects at once before.

[Zeivu.3615]

I am curious what the slider would really do mechanically. How would you turn it down without removing it entirely? Reducing stuff to basic shapes can still trigger seizures if they are fast and bright enough.

[Menadena.7482]

@Zeivu.3615 said:I am curious what the slider would really do mechanically. How would you turn it down without removing it entirely? Reducing stuff to basic shapes can still trigger seizures if they are fast and bright enough.

The ability to turn off sprites would solve a lot. It would not be a 100% solution, but the ability to turn them off also has the plus of controlling locally generated lag.

[Malediktus.9250]

I am pretty light sensitive (I always play in darkened room because I cant stand daylight), but I noticed no issue with this instance to be honest. The end of the thaumanova fractal is so much worse, always makes me tab out when the cutscene happens.

[Ceridwen.6703]

@Malediktus.9250 said:I am pretty light sensitive (I always play in darkened room because I cant stand daylight), but I noticed no issue with this instance to be honest. The end of the thaumanova fractal is so much worse, always makes me tab out when the cutscene happens.

Stimuli can and will have different results for each of us.

Sunlight is also out to get me, but I've always had to play games in a very well lit room. I hate overhead lights, so I use a desk lamp, other lamps about the room, and even fairy lights help. If I played in a darkened room, I'd be hospitalised in a jiffy. =)

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

Thank you!! It's heartening to know you guys are doing something, and it's greatly appreciated. <3

[Aerlen.5326]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:We are aware of this concern, and I believe you will see it addressed soon.

Holy crap.

I'll be honest, after months of trying to get people to be aware of this, I didn't expect an actual response. I expected.. well.. the internet to be the internet and tons of "git gud" (and some people did that - like seriously? The idea of an effects slider or toning down offends you this much?).

So I want to seriously thank Arenanet. I was shocked when I saw something in the patch notes about tweaking the frequency of the lightning. It might not be much but that is an excellent start. Thank you for listening.

@Ceridwen.6703 said:Again, I simply ask Anet to consider players with disabilities. How about doing some kind of private contact form where we can tell you how you could make your game more accessible for us? We'd love to help you help us!

I'm on-board for this too.

[BeardedVagabond.8136]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Nick Lentz.6982 said:They give you a warning, for a reason. Yeah, it sucks. You're either going to have to adapt or move on to different games.

As I have pointed out those warnings are overused, if anything on a computer thinks they even MIGHT want to do something flashy they put it on as a CYA legal move .... which means nobody that might be affected pays attention to them because 99% of the time it is just empty words. As has also been pointed out in other posts people with epilepsy are triggered by different things and have widely varying tolerance levels.

so adapt or move on?Terms of service are useless too, but here we are nitpicking.Its there to keep assholes who ruin it for everybody, from suing. They are not going to cater to a minority of people and say what specifically is the cause or change the game.You KNOW Its there.you KNOW to watch for it.

[Chickenooble.5014]

ArenaNet. I like the bright, flashy lights. Don't ruin my experience because these guys are crying about it.

Thanks.

[Lyndina.7984]

I dont have the problems with flashing lights and stuff as the autor of this thread, i have to agree. It really is too "colorful and flashy". You cant look anywhere on your screen which doesnt explode or flashes in every color of the rainbow. Its too much, even if you dont have problems with it. The last mission of pof also, most people in my guild thought they play a michael bay movie.

[Menadena.7482]

To those who are saying 'it is in the legal fine print' or 'git gud':

You have never ONCE complained or suggested an improvement when a company did the same, whether or not it was anet? Whether voiced or not, you did not even think 'this would be better if they did xyz'? Really? No being annoyed when a cable company gave you a 4+ hour window to hook up your internet (after all, they are upfront about it)?

[Valkyrie.1794]

@Chickenooble.5014 said:ArenaNet. I like the bright, flashy lights. Don't ruin my experience because these guys are crying about it.

Thanks.

Most of the people "crying" about it are individuals with MEDICAL reasons it bothers them. This isn't the normal complaints of visual bloat, this is about anet increasing/decreasing discomfort caused by an overabundance of flashing brandstrikes. I'm lucky enough not to have those sensitives or issues, but I feel for people who do.

Major props from me to Anet for recognizing this issue and making some steps in the right direction!

[Color.8974]

@"Chickenooble.5014" said:ArenaNet. I like the bright, flashy lights. Don't ruin my experience because these guys are crying about it.

Thanks.

If it is a setting you can let "flashy lights" enabled, while other people with problem could disable it. Everyone should be happy then.

[Feothyr.6072]

@"Valkyrie.1794" said:Most of the people "crying" about it are individuals with MEDICAL reasons it bothers them.

I don't wanna be a buzzkill, but if someone's having medical issues because of something they engage in then maybe simply don't do it?! If you're allergic to peanuts you're probably not going to eat a snickers and then complain about it containing peanuts, right?

I'd welcome an option to decrease the flashiness of the game for people who have issues because of it and I feel for them ... but wouldn't hurt to tone down the entitlement.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

I can't recommend WvW because of similar issues. #ParticleBalance

D:

[Klowdy.3126]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Haishao.6851 said:They have warning about seizure, like every video games.

That is CYA legalish boilerplate put on every game, whether it is needed or not. I think even sims has it but I would need to check. The epilepsy community ignores those warnings because they are so overused.

I specialize in accessibility on web sites. I wonder why we even bother to HAVE 508, WCAG, and associated technologies? I mean, I can just slap a disclaimer on the site, right? Yeah, that is equal accessibility there .... games do not get a free pass. It is one thing if we are talking a key mechanic (like if the ONLY way to do something was because the player, and not someone else, heard something) but all the things listed would not suffer one jot if they did not trigger photosensitivity.

As someone with epilepsy I know seizures caused by flashing lights are rare. Still though, I avoid flashing lights when I can because, well, why take the chance? Plus with this large a player population it will affect SOMEONE and I tend not to play russian roulette.

I agree there should be a slider, but it is no one's fault but their own if people choose to ignore warnings. Overused or not, a warning is there to provide protection to absolutely anyone that may be affected.

[Ashantara.8731]

The effects have been used exaggeratedly for quite some time, and it's only getting worse with each new content release. ANet does not listen to their playerbase when it comes to this issue. Sometimes less is more.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

@Nick Lentz.6982 said:P.s. I've stopped playing most first person shooters do to motion sickness.

Have you tried Sea-Bands?

[Mikuchan.7261]

Played the instances, liked them, flew griffon at high speed through them.Not an epileptic, not prone to seizures.I have absolutely nothing against adding options for the people who need it.But please don't remove my pretty effects, thank you.