RANGER REALLY?

[jdawgie.1835]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah, that's a core engi problem, not a soulbeast problem.

I mean seriously, you play anything with toughness/condi and a couple tricks that stop evade frames like spectral ring or ring of ward or slick shoes, you can turn the 1shot right around on the soulbeast and 1shot it back.

-- Important to note -- that evade frames on soulbeast cannot go over force effects like spectral ring, line of ward right of ward, slick shoes, dragon maw, DH f1 pull, ect ect. There are so many ways to completely interupt and stop the soulbeast's offense. Start using them.

Facts

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I mean seriously, you play anything with toughness/condi and a couple tricks that stop evade frames like spectral ring or ring of ward or slick shoes, you can turn the 1shot right around on the soulbeast and 1shot it back.

Counter play. 

[coro.3176]

All right. Play this out. Let's use  @Sahne.6950 's posted example of the opener on Mirage. Suppose a condi build, condi amulet, and they have toughness or vit (can't have both).

How do they not just immediately die to this, even with the extra defense?

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said:

I like the part where you play a 13k health willbender and you die to just warhorn 4 and OWP. 
 

Soulbeast is not fine. It has counter play and doesn’t win everything, but it wins fights it normally wouldn’t.

Again you are playing a god dam Willbender. Your entire kit is built around damage immunitys and mobility. 

Just leave and use Reversal of Fortune or Renewed Focus. Then turn around and one shot him. I have seen Willbenders do this a lot especially in WvW roaming. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Downstate.4697]

32 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Again you are playing a god dam Willbender. Your entire kit is built around damage immunitys and mobility. 

Just leave and use Reversal of Fortune or Renewad Focus. Then turn around and one shot him. I seen Willbenders do this alot especially in WvW roaming. 

Okay

[Gotejjeken.1267]

  

3 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Vitality is not much of the answer in this situation. Least not from my own experiences yesterday running around with 20k HP. The burst is really that strong (20k clap from just birds) you really need a combo of sustain, resistance to damage and either a lot of damage yourself or condi.

whatever the solution is, it will have to be pretty novel. I’m expecting a borked out condi tank…

 

1 hour ago, coro.3176 said:

All right. Play this out. Let's use  @Sahne.6950 's posted example of the opener on Mirage. Suppose a condi build, condi amulet, and they have toughness or vit (can't have both).

How do they not just immediately die to this, even with the extra defense?

The solution is a handicapped Druid?

I don't know what to tell half the people on this forum, it really is just a skill issue.  Sure, the damage is super high and if you get caught not looking you can be downed pretty quick, but sPvP SHOULD be about awareness and from all the complaints I'm seeing the opposite of that.  

I guess my question in return is, why should an amulet choice alone negate a burst? As you see from the video you can survive, and I have no boons outside swiftness and a little bit of fury (which is negligible as my build has practically zero power damage).

EDIT: And I'm not even saying the video I linked is a perfect 1v1; I literally recorded the first time I fought this new burst SLB--hadn't played sPvP in 6 months prior to that. 

The point was just to show it can be done even on a build like Druid that's had a about 4-5 nerfs in the past year alone.  Now add all the immunities other classes get to burst and land where I am...not seeing the point of some people on here screaming in all caps.  

Edited August 28, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Also, before the usual suspects say anything, I realize the slb in the video was using longbow.  That doesn't mean he couldn't have bursted me down and in my estimation if he was using GS (like the meta battle build) it would be far easier to dodge than a quickness rapid fire.  I know I for one wouldn't have had to waste my wall on a melee and instead could heal with it, etc. etc.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

  The solution is a handicapped Druid?

The build I played yesterday was in fact on support druid. But like I said before, my frame of reference is fighting like...top 100 players that use something like SB...it's not exactly a new trend, unique to SB either, you'll see will-benders, power-mesmers, rev's that play this kind of one-shotty rambo style)

Like stated, the current meta SB uses Maul (Greatsword) which is one of it's core skills that make the build very strong. I'm not really trying to discount your video, but you definitely want to make sure that you want to give people the best information you can. It's gonna get murked by just birds since the bursts do more damage than pure vitality can cope with, and if you managed to survive that, you need to deal with at least 2 mauls and a worldly impact before they will attempt a retreat.

My immediate suggestions at this time for anyone fighting this in addition to what i said earlier... is that you want to bring weakness with you (too bad a lot of weakness was nerfed in the game) and protection. Stacking those two things are the biggest defenses you can bring for yourself. If you can run a toughness-based stats that is the most logical thing (too bad there's no toughness support ammy's anymore) and if you are playing a healer...i think you need to have some straight up defensive things and not just kites like on a druid (cause an SB will catch up to you.)

[jdawgie.1835]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I don't know what to tell half the people on this forum, it really is just a skill issue.  Sure, the damage is super high and if you get caught not looking you can be downed pretty quick, but sPvP SHOULD be about awareness and from all the complaints I'm seeing the opposite of that.  

This is as true as it gets. An inability to avoid burst means you got caught (good for them it happens) or if it happens consistently then you just need to duel more and get better. I cant say it enough - if you cant avoid burst and result to raging in all caps then you have a larger issue. To be honest out of all the things that are reported broken on this forum and imo thats only been true twice (vindi infinite dodge/Cata when it had unlimited susgtain) melee ranger is one of the easiest things to avoid and it has to be in melee range to do any of it to begin with. Keep getting gap closed, and bursted on bro your a potato. Less time in forums more time in duels. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[Mell.4873]

21 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

This is as true as it gets. An inability to avoid burst means you got caught (good for them it happens) or if it happens consistently then you just need to duel more and get better. I cant say it enough - if you cant avoid burst and result to raging in all caps then you have a larger issue. To be honest out of all the things that are reported broken on this forum and imo thats only been true twice (vindi infinite dodge/Cata when it had unlimited susgtain) melee ranger is one of the easiest things to avoid and it has to be in melee range to do any of it to begin with. Keep getting gap closed, and bursted on bro your a potato. Less time in forums more time in duels. 

Yeah, I don't seem to have issues unless its Plat level players operating the Soulbeast but that was true before this one-shot build.

For the most part it is extremely easy to avoid, even with stealth I just start spamming AoE on myself since I know they are trying to sneak up on me.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Like stated, the current meta SB uses Maul (Greatsword) which is one of it's core skills that make the build very strong. I'm not really trying to discount your video, but you definitely want to make sure that you want to give people the best information you can. It's gonna get murked by just birds since the bursts do more damage than pure vitality can cope with, and if you managed to survive that, you need to deal with at least 2 mauls and a worldly impact before they will attempt a retreat.

Yeah, the one thing Druid has is a lot of CC.  Soulbeast has Dolyak stance and that's it--everything is also very easy to CC them out of if you know what to look for.  

You can also dodge roll the birds just like rapid fire--WH #4 is kinda hard to hit with once the enemy knows what it is.  

It's actually funny how much mobility staff gives you and now with unseen evasion you can pretty much fly across the map--guess that's not a druid unique thing anymore since weaponmaster, but still.  

[Eurantien.4632]

Maybe it's time to make warhorn 4 not cast the birds at 60% of the way through the cast?

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah, I don't seem to have issues unless its Plat level players operating the Soulbeast but that was true before this one-shot build.

 

This sentence hints at a subtle yet very important fact about this entire balance conversation.

 

There is a difference between "Soulbeast is OP" (the SlB in question was a sentient player) and "Soulbeast is OP" (this Slb in question learned their combo 5 mins before the game started)

 

I would love the data on the kinds of Soulbeast players some of y'all are running into and getting dropped by, I'd bet the range of skill levels would be pretty wide.

with that being said, sw/wh Slb is definitely jokes

Edited August 29, 2023 by GeneralBM.5781

[Mell.4873]

34 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

 

This sentence hints at a subtle yet very important fact about this entire balance conversation.

 

There is a difference between "Soulbeast is OP" (the SlB in question was a sentient player) and "Soulbeast is OP" (this Slb in question learned their combo 5 mins before the game started)

 

I would love the data on the kinds of Soulbeast players some of y'all are running into and getting dropped by, I'd bet the range of skill levels would be pretty wide.

with that being said, sw/wh Slb is definitely jokes

Yeah, as the Class becomes more popular more of PvP masses will pick it up which will intern make them more killable. It should not impact the fact that this is still a problem. I mean the Elementalist situation was different since it did require at least a good knowledge of the Elementalist toolkit to use, but not Soulbeast.

[bethekey.8314]

7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I don't know what to tell half the people on this forum, it really is just a skill issue.  Sure, the damage is super high and if you get caught not looking you can be downed pretty quick, but sPvP SHOULD be about awareness and from all the complaints I'm seeing the opposite of that.  

I guess my question in return is, why should an amulet choice alone negate a burst? As you see from the video you can survive, and I have no boons outside swiftness and a little bit of fury (which is negligible as my build has practically zero power damage).

Just lol. This is such a terrible example of what Soulbeast can do to the point I'm surprised a Ranger player (in any capacity) even posted it.

1) The Soulbeast didn't combine Sic Em and OWP with burst. 2) I think he Sic Em'd your pet at the end lmao. 3) Rangers are inherently protected against Rev 3 / Smoke Assaulty type attacks because they have a nearby ally at all times (their pet) to soak up half the attacks.

Despite all this, you still ate 12k damage.

Such a bad example and the cherry on top is you acting like it's good, skillful proof on your part.

Edited August 29, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Kuma.1503]

I'm okay with pig maul. And Prelude lash. And Smoke Assault into WI. And the hard hitting sword skills. A well timed dodge and some good kiting and you can avoid all of that. 

The sticky damage from birds on the other hand... If you don't have a channeled block/invuln, you need 2 dodges to mitigate this 1 skill. Just give it the lightning orb treatment. Give it fewer hits but increase the damage. Speed it up so a single well timed dodge will suffice. That's all. 

The rest, you can argue is a L2P issue. 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Just lol. This is such a terrible example of what Soulbeast can do to the point I'm surprised a Ranger player (in any capacity) even posted it.

Of course, because it proves the entire premise false.  I bet if a ranger 'in any capacity' posted a vid getting destroyed by the same guy you'd give it a like and a share.

3 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Despite all this, you still ate 12k damage.

Yes, because that SLB was actually good; I can post 10 examples of bodying awful ones on some variation of the same build, don't care if they are full melee, use Sic' Em or whatnot it's all the same to me.

3 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

3) Rangers are inherently protected against Rev 3 / Smoke Assaulty type attacks because they have a nearby ally at all times (their pet) to soak up half the attacks.

The very soulbeast you complain about has no pet by their side as they are merged with it 😂.  My pet is also not by my side, it's on the point and I am not--oh ya I forgot body blocking is probably OP too.    

I love the spin on these forums.  

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

The sticky damage from birds on the other hand... If you don't have a channeled block/invuln, you need 2 dodges to mitigate this 1 skill. Just give it the lightning orb treatment. Give it fewer hits but increase the damage. Speed it up so a single well timed dodge will suffice. That's all. 

Would have to change rapid fire too, as it's the same thing but actually works unlike the birds (and also tracks through stealth).  I think people notice the birds more because no one used it until now--rapid fire has been used since literal game launch.  

We get much less complaints about rapid fire now with the copious amounts of invuln / block and very strict access to unblockable.  

[Kuma.1503]

40 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

We get much less complaints about rapid fire now with the copious amounts of invuln / block and very strict access to unblockable.  

Rapid fire is also reflectable, and won't track you behind LoS. 

[Downstate.4697]

Players that think it’s a skill issue probably play a class that can survive the burst or they play ranger in plat 1 and love stomping on players and then get confused when their ability doesn’t one shot a condi berserker.

 

 If I’m a willbender and I use my elite, what do I have to eat a OWP and wh4 combo? I can double dodge and still almost die.

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, Downstate.4697 said:

I can double dodge and still almost die.

SEE!    You survived the burst!

 

Conclusion: Buff Soulbeast.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Classic L2P issue.
 

Edited August 29, 2023 by TrollingDemigod.3041

[bethekey.8314]

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Of course, because it proves the entire premise false.  I bet if a ranger 'in any capacity' posted a vid getting destroyed by the same guy you'd give it a like and a share.

Not really. You can tell if both players are playing well, and the same person is capable of playing well or poorly at different times. The ranger you were up against objectively wasn't doing so hot in this video, mis-timing bursts, backpedaling, and just not casting things at times.

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yes, because that SLB was actually good

Well, no, lol. See the above reasons. You took 12k+ damage because Ranger has ridiculous damage right now across multiple skills, such that you can completely whiff your burst combo, and still dish out 12k in a second or two.

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The very soulbeast you complain about has no pet by their side as they are merged with it 😂.  My pet is also not by my side, it's on the point and I am not--oh ya I forgot body blocking is probably OP too.    

I love the spin on these forums. 

Yeah people love to spin things in their favor.

Here, that's you. The merged Soulbeast isn't the one getting damaged during the Rev Sword 3-like ability (what's the exact name? Merged skills are confusing to find). Yes, Rangers can temporarily not have a pet ally. No, that isn't the point.

The skill sequence I referred to starts around 0:16 in your video. The pet is not on the point. And it clearly eats some of the damage.

I assume the point you're referring to, after most of the damage was already taken, is around 0:27? Maybe I wasn't clear when I said "Rangers are inherently protected against Rev 3 / Smoke Assaulty type attacks"?

Edited August 29, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Not really. You can tell if both players are playing well, and the same person is capable of playing well or poorly at different times. The ranger you were up against objectively wasn't doing so hot in this video, mis-timing bursts, backpedaling, and just not casting things at times.

Well, no, lol. See the above reasons. You took 12k+ damage because Ranger has ridiculous damage right now across multiple skills, such that you can completely whiff your burst combo, and still dish out 12k in a second or two.

Yeah people love to spin things in their favor.

Here, that's you. The merged Soulbeast isn't the one getting damaged during the Rev Sword 3-like ability (what's the exact name? Merged skills are confusing to find). Yes, Rangers can temporarily not have a pet ally. No, that isn't the point.

The skill sequence I referred to starts around 0:16 in your video. The pet is not on the point. And it clearly eats some of the damage.

I assume the point you're referring to, after most of the damage was already taken, is around 0:27? Maybe I wasn't clear when I said "Rangers are inherently protected against Rev 3 / Smoke Assaulty type attacks"?

You don't even know the name of the skill you are trying to make a point off of?! You quote it as 'confusing to find' but want to dissect a video on ranger...

Oh, I love these forums 😂

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

is everyone changing their PFP's to be the soulbeast icon? lol

[bethekey.8314]

22 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You don't even know the name of the skill you are trying to make a point off of?! You quote it as 'confusing to find' but want to dissect a video on ranger...

Oh, I love these forums 😂

It takes a real man to ask for help 🙂 It takes a not so real one to criticize that.

But I'm sure you had a good response to your awful video apart from this.

Edited August 29, 2023 by bethekey.8314

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

The merged Soulbeast isn't the one getting damaged during the Rev Sword 3-like ability (what's the exact name? Merged skills are confusing to find).

This is called Smoke Assault.