Power Creep, The game is too easy [Merged]

[Ashen.2907]

56 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

That is a good walking bacon right there.

His name is Porkchop Express, and he is awesome.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[TeeBeeNZ.1963]

This is one of the downsides of having a simple combat system.  With so few options, and a high cost to make any signifigant change you need to keep combat straight forward or else the game becomes to costly/difficult for players to do anything.  If you look at GW1 however which has a good combat system, you have the opposite issue where content can be hard, but its down to the player to solve it with a build.  While this is the better option, it can make players demad people meet certain build requirements.

[hellsqueen.3045]

On 9/11/2023 at 6:27 PM, Krajtin.8956 said:

Yeah, if there's one thing I like about this game, it's that the old bosses should be as hard as they were back in the day. But now they are like paper. We need to go back to HoT or PoF DPS.

I want to see all the parts of Dragon's Stand again and for the boss to last more than 10 minutes at least

Dragon Stand Boss wouldn't last more than 10 minutes even if you got everyone to stop wearing their armor, because people now have mounts and know how to do the Bomb Dropping Phase.

We all know 3rd bite cc to give people time to drop the bombs and with mounts, that is made even easier, and even more so now if you think that mounts can use updrafts, you now only have to dismount to throw it.

[Zera.9435]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:30 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

Listing gear rarity here doesn't mean anything either, the gear doesn't play for you.

It was just to demonstrate that I have the best gear I can possibly have. Maybe somehow you're  just doing 10x the damage I am, but I feel my damage is way too low. Sure, the rift pre-events are not exactly difficult (kill enough things to anger the big guy), but that does not mean the rest of the game is super easy. Raids are plenty hard, as are strikes and fractals, particularly challenge modes. The game has enough of a challenge as it is. Whatever power creep people are talking about, I just don't see it.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

It was just to demonstrate that I have the best gear I can possibly have. Maybe somehow you're  just doing 10x the damage I am, but I feel my damage is way too low. Sure, the rift pre-events are not exactly difficult (kill enough things to anger the big guy), but that does not mean the rest of the game is super easy. Raids are plenty hard, as are strikes and fractals, particularly challenge modes. The game has enough of a challenge as it is.

But as I already wrote in my previous post, this "demonstrates" nothing and that's the point here.

10 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

Whatever power creep people are talking about, I just don't see it.

At this point... just re-read the thread then.
Except I think you do see it and that's exactly why what you're using to justify anything here are those convenient situations where "you take longer to kill a mob when the event is scaled by other players" 🙄 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Zera.9435]

47 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But as I already wrote in my previous post, this "demonstrates" nothing and that's the point here.

At this point... just re-read the thread then.
Except I think you do see it and that's exactly why what you're using to justify anything here are those convenient situations where "you take longer to kill a mob when the event is scaled by other players" 🙄 

It was more to avoid the 'get better gear' comment that someone will eventually tell me to do. I re-read the original post as you recommended, but I find it hard to believe that all the end-game content has become trivial, because that's how it reads.

And IF the hardest content in the game really is as trivial as they say, then I would like to remind everyone of my recommendation to find enjoyment/challenge in other games. You've won GW2. You can even do that while you wait for future content/updates. I maintain that the game's overall difficulty is adequate instead of low.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Zera.9435 said:

It was just to demonstrate that I have the best gear I can possibly have. Maybe somehow you're  just doing 10x the damage I am, but I feel my damage is way too low. Sure, the rift pre-events are not exactly difficult (kill enough things to anger the big guy), but that does not mean the rest of the game is super easy. Raids are plenty hard, as are strikes and fractals, particularly challenge modes. The game has enough of a challenge as it is. Whatever power creep people are talking about, I just don't see it.

That's literally what is happening in the game: players with similar gear having severe performance gaps. You can be full ascended, even berserker or full offensive, and still only be doing 3-5k dps, depending on build, weapons, sigils/runes, lack of understanding how to combo skills, slow reaction time, etc. Meanwhile a player with a proper build, even low intensity or simplified, might be doing 3-5 times that with the same gear. The fact you are bringing up gear is frightening tbh because the usual answer has NEVER been "get better gear" in this game. It's always been: get a proper build.

You aren't running a damage meter, nor have you ANY idea where your performance might be at. My guess is you've not 1nce visited the training golem even for 5 minutes, to get a basic understanding of what you are doing. Be honest: you've copy pasted a build from some where (if even that), didn't bother to read even 1 line of how that build works, haven't spent 1 minute on setting up  hotkeys (even basic ones like rebinding say QERT to access utility skills a bit faster).

There are literally low intensity builds with as low as 10-15 actions per minute (meaning you have to press a button every 4-5 seconds at most) and less which put your performance to shame (according to your claims of enemies being to difficult).

I'm sorry but you are absolutely in no way qualified to make assumptions on how hard or easy this game is when the effort you have put in is this low. That's like someone coming to a chess game making statements about other peoples turns with 0 idea of what the rules are.

The statements and discussions around power creep are based around what is possible at the top end, what is possible in the low effort spectrum (with players at least having a minimum understanding and proper build setup, aka low intensity builds) and what is required to succeed at any of the content. That's where power creep is overrunning the game, both in legacy content as well as previously at least semi challenging content. That's where the gap between what is needed for success and what is possible is widening for all content. That's not subjective, that's objectively measurable.

My suggestion:

Go to the training golem and actually check where you are at performance wise. Don't even go all out or overboard, just go and see. Then decide on if it's worth your time to spend 20-30 minutes to improve your build and understanding. Then get back here and tell others this game is to hard, or not but now you'll at least have a ballpark of WHY you are struggling when most open world content is this face roll easy, yes even the SotO content.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Sobx.1758]

41 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

It was more to avoid the 'get better gear' comment that someone will eventually tell me to do. I re-read the original post as you recommended, but I find it hard to believe that all the end-game content has become trivial, because that's how it reads.

In comparison to what it was, it did get trivialized. And isn't it fun how you now went from basing your previous post on rift pre-events to all end-game content?
Not to mention addressing the rest of what I wrote there instead of just quoting that one short sentence about gear rarity (and even that still remains true btw).

 

Btw what I said wasn't "re-read the original post", but "if you don't see the power creep here then re-read the thread" because it was explained well enough already.

41 minutes ago, Zera.9435 said:

And IF the hardest content in the game really is as trivial as they say, then I would like to remind everyone of my recommendation to find enjoyment/challenge in other games. You've won GW2. You can even do that while you wait for future content/updates. I maintain that the game's overall difficulty is adequate instead of low.

ok and I maintain that if you have trouble with killing pre-event mobs then the issue here isn't the game or its difficulty, but your low understanding of the game.

I also wonder if that exact same argumentation ("find another game") applies to all your complaints, like the one about acquisition of legendary gear. I guess if you dislike how they're acquired then leggies (or the game altogether) aren't for you and instead of complaining and pushing for a change, you should find another thing to do. Or another game to play. Or do the rules change here when it's you disliking something about the state of the game? 🤔

Edited September 24, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Drizzly.4562]

4 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

And IF the hardest content in the game really is as trivial as they say, then I would like to remind everyone of my recommendation to find enjoyment/challenge in other games.

Your solution to excessive power creep is basically for high skill pve players to abandon the game?

Well don't worry, that's been going on for a while. 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Hey, so, I'm a condi-staff mesmer.....can I have some power creep please? Not even a lot, I'll just take a cup of power creep. Anyone?

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Hey, so, I'm a condi-staff mesmer.....can I have some power creep please? Not even a lot, I'll just take a cup of power creep. Anyone?

Dont look like its needed.

 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Dont look like its needed.

But I don't wanna be a mirage. I like my dodge.

[Linken.6345]

31 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

But I don't wanna be a mirage. I like my dodge.

Then dont complain that you do less damage mate.

[toorichforyou.6743]

i dont believe you op.

 cal and roy said in october 2022 during their balance philosophy video that they wanted to reward hard builds but keep the damage in line with how hard the class is.

every build doing 45k plus is fake news. 

[Burnfall.9573]

4 minutes ago, toorichforyou.6743 said:

i dont believe you op.

 cal and roy said in october 2022 during their balance philosophy video that they wanted to reward hard builds but keep the damage in line with how hard the class is.

every build doing 45k plus is fake news. 

remember to read log

[toorichforyou.6743]

1 minute ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

remember to read log

you cant sense the sarcasm in my original post can you?

[Burnfall.9573]

Just now, toorichforyou.6743 said:

you cant sense the sarcasm in my original post can you?

i missed it l😅

[toorichforyou.6743]

2 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

i missed it l😅

all good lol 🙂

 

[LadyKitty.6120]

13 hours ago, Drizzly.4562 said:

Your solution to excessive power creep is basically for high skill pve players to abandon the game?

Well don't worry, that's been going on for a while. 

And it obviously doesn't matter if they leave, they're being nasty gatekeepers who want to ruin everyone's fun with nerf demands! Game will be better without them!

...oh wait, they're the ones who do buildcrafting and guides. Stuff that not-so-skilled players get their builds from. But who cares if those are abandoned? /s

[Elzo Yell.1784]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:40 PM, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Power Reaper isn’t doing 49k dps… you might want to get your information right if you want to try to calling things out for being problematic 

Idk why I said Reaper, I meant Scourge. You could correct me instead of being condescending...

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, LadyKitty.6120 said:

And it obviously doesn't matter if they leave, they're being nasty gatekeepers who want to ruin everyone's fun with nerf demands! Game will be better without them!

...oh wait, they're the ones who do buildcrafting and guides. Stuff that not-so-skilled players get their builds from. But who cares if those are abandoned? /s

TBH i'd say huge majority of this game's population probably never even seen any of those buildcraft guides. And is not using any of the builds created by those people. Which is part of the problem Anet constantly keeps grappling with in this game.

[Kozumi.5816]

Already a thread on this here with predictions that this would get even worse in SotO:

They don't care, they can't even devote resources to fixing bugs there's no way they will devote resources to reigning in power creep.

They are just milking this game to fund their new game that will never release.  

Edited September 25, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Kozumi.5816]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:59 AM, xellink.7568 said:

since HOT, peak power is somewhere 27k (Core Hammer Guardian). The issue is that knowledge share wasn't as great at that time. So the average DPS per player is a lot less, about 5-10k. The minimum required to clear VG is 4.7k without enrage, which makes it a good starting boss. The special forces training area had limited access and that was only available in 2016. A lot of buffs required specialised roles. Mesmer for quick/alac, banners, spotter, etc. Hammer guardian is a very good build as it can provide full protection, full resolution, 25 stacks of vulnerability while hitting the required DPS even if all the boons aren't present, being very good in uncoordinated groups. This build remains relatively unchanged over the last 7-8 years. 100%+ is an exaggeration. 

HoT supports didn't do 32k+ DPS. Everyone always forgets to factor this in.

Every world boss melts now, and all instanced content as well. This game is "play the expac if you want things that don't insta die" but we get 1/10th the content real MMO's get.

Play the expac MMO design does not work in a game with such an anemic content schedule, and Anet doesn't want to invest to resources into a proper content update schedule so they should stop trying to copy themeparks.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Gendalfs.7521]

Do someone knows? Is dps tied to fps?

[ShadowKatt.6740]

On 9/24/2023 at 11:43 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

That's literally what is happening in the game: players with similar gear having severe performance gaps. You can be full ascended, even berserker or full offensive, and still only be doing 3-5k dps, depending on build, weapons, sigils/runes, lack of understanding how to combo skills, slow reaction time, etc. Meanwhile a player with a proper build, even low intensity or simplified, might be doing 3-5 times that with the same gear. The fact you are bringing up gear is frightening tbh because the usual answer has NEVER been "get better gear" in this game. It's always been: get a proper build.

You aren't running a damage meter, nor have you ANY idea where your performance might be at. My guess is you've not 1nce visited the training golem even for 5 minutes, to get a basic understanding of what you are doing. Be honest: you've copy pasted a build from some where (if even that), didn't bother to read even 1 line of how that build works, haven't spent 1 minute on setting up  hotkeys (even basic ones like rebinding say QERT to access utility skills a bit faster).

There are literally low intensity builds with as low as 10-15 actions per minute (meaning you have to press a button every 4-5 seconds at most) and less which put your performance to shame (according to your claims of enemies being to difficult).

I'm sorry but you are absolutely in no way qualified to make assumptions on how hard or easy this game is when the effort you have put in is this low. That's like someone coming to a chess game making statements about other peoples turns with 0 idea of what the rules are.

The statements and discussions around power creep are based around what is possible at the top end, what is possible in the low effort spectrum (with players at least having a minimum understanding and proper build setup, aka low intensity builds) and what is required to succeed at any of the content. That's where power creep is overrunning the game, both in legacy content as well as previously at least semi challenging content. That's where the gap between what is needed for success and what is possible is widening for all content. That's not subjective, that's objectively measurable.

My suggestion:

Go to the training golem and actually check where you are at performance wise. Don't even go all out or overboard, just go and see. Then decide on if it's worth your time to spend 20-30 minutes to improve your build and understanding. Then get back here and tell others this game is to hard, or not but now you'll at least have a ballpark of WHY you are struggling when most open world content is this face roll easy, yes even the SotO content.

You know, I want to thank you. I didn't even know that training center EXISTED, much less I could use it to test my DPS and see how I stack up. And now I know I should probably uninstall the game.

I actually AM that worthless player in full ascended gear, legendary staff, and I'm only doing 3.2k dps. Honestly, reading through this thread and seeing people talking about the power creep and doing 20k, 30k, 40k, 45k dps is so mind boggling that....yeah, I think something is wrong. I'm not sure if it's me, or if it's the power creep in the game. I was proud because I've done everything. I did all the stories. I do fractals. I do metas. And now I'm pretty sure that I've literally never contributed anything ever to anything I've ever done.